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  #91  
Old 2005-10-04, 5:37am
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-- My point has been made, and hopefully there will not be a need to repeat myself --
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Chaotic Glass: Safety for the glassworker, and random thoughts and opinions on the state of the glassworking world
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  #92  
Old 2005-10-04, 6:42am
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What is happening to our glass beadmaking community? This community was supposed to be about helping, supporting and sharing with other people in the community. These forums came about as a result of people who love the community who want to give us all a place where we can share and support and help each other. In the last couple of years, and this year especially, it seems the glass beadmaking community is more interested in the almighty dollar than they are about a loving, supportive community. We seem to be more interested in copying others or accusing others of copying than we are about our art and helping others to learn. We seem to more interesting in getting ahead by any means, even if it is trodding on the backs of others in the community. Instead of tearing people or businesses down, we used to try to build them up. Is the dollar so important to us that we have let our community standards degrade to this point?

It's fine to argue opinions and issues, but attacking a person or people because of those opinions is tearing our community apart. Is that what people want, to be a divided community? Is it so important to get a larger slice of the pie that you don't care who you hurt? Is it so important to be right that it makes it okay to belittle another person?

Remember, glass beadmaking is an art form. The way you go about creating your art is a personal thing. Your opinions as to tools and equipment and glass and techniques is a personal thing to you and the way you create your art. There is no top and no bottom in our community. People who do really great work are admired and hopefully will share what they have learned on their travels in the world of glass beadmaking. There are no kings, queens, princes or princesses and there are no serfs. We are all equal in that we love glass and we each do the best we can in our art form. You may believe that you can learn more from one person than another, but again, that is personal to you. You may believe one person is a better beadmaker than another at any given point in time, but that is personal to you. It doesn't make that person a better person, just at that point they were a better beadmaker, in your opinion.

Who is to be admired? Well, my personal opinion, for what it is worth, is the one who unselfishly gives back to the community, the person who is always striving to do no harm, the person who is true to their own values and who honors the values of the community.
Respectfully,
Pam
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  #93  
Old 2005-10-04, 7:11am
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Well spoken Pam.
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  #94  
Old 2005-10-04, 7:47am
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For the record, I have a Bobcat - I find it to get hotter than the Minor and my control knobs are NEVER hot.

As for the rest - someone needs a nap...or meds..oh wait....that's me!
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  #95  
Old 2005-10-04, 8:55am
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The recent turn of this thread is very disturbing.

It is unfortunate that those of you with business interests or ties feel the necessity to ruin a very positive thread. Show a little respect to the rest of us here. I for one don't like the continuous exposure to these negative (from my view overly sensitive) public battles. I would appreciate it if you all (and I hope you know who you are) would take care of these issues in private. It does not matter who started what or where. Be the bigger person and and stop all of the public mud-slinging. I cannot figure out why some of the biggest names in this business want to associate themselves in such negative public displays. It is not just damaging one reputation.

I have been following this thread because I, like most of you, like to hear how these products have met with the needs of your particular glassworking style. Because a number of the members here also have business associations with other glassworkers, manufactures, etc..., there is going to be a blurry line between personal and professional opinion. To me they are one in the same. You are entitled to give it or not, just like everyone else. I am not a blind follower of the few, nor do I believe the rest of you are. I am an adult. I know that one person's experience is not necessarily going to be that of anothers. I don't think that we need to publically fight over them. I find these public 'cat fights' insulting and petty. I will take from opinions and experiences and do a little research then make up my own mind.

It is not in the best interest of anyone here to have this continue. What will happen is that people will stop participating because it will just not be worth risking one of you hijacking the thread over a perceived insult. Those of you looking for a good fight or looking to start a good fight, the bathroom is a good place. Because after all we like a good fight and at the end of the day we can be friendly again and the new-comers will not see how much BS goes on in here.


debbie

P.S.
I have a HH, Carslile Mini CC and a Nortel Minor. They have all worked well for me. The HH is a good beginer torch. I found it frustrating and restricted the color of soft glass I could use. The Mini CC is the second torch I purchased and I love it. My favorite. The only thing I do not like about it is that the oxy/gas knobs get very warm. I purchased the Minor because I wanted to find out why so many people like it. After 5 months of use i like it, I do not have any thing good or bad to add. I mostly make small glass beads used for jewelry.
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  #96  
Old 2005-10-04, 9:34am
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Thank you, Pam, for your thoughtful post. You are absolutely right. We should be helping each other instead of tearing each other down.

Back to the topic of this thread:

When I started lampworking, I used to use a Hot Head. It was a great way to get introduced to melting glass (aside from the Bunsen burner I used in Chemistry). The Hot Head has many benefits.

It is inexpensive. If it were more expensive, I may not have been able to try lampworking to see if it was for me.

It is slow. I list this as a benefit because when I started out, working slow helped me. I learned better how glass moves. I also learned a little more about patience.

It is a real torch and can do just about anything - just maybe on a smaller scale. I have seen beads that are absolutely stunning and were made on a Hot Head. I believe that a true artist can make his or her tools sing. Of course, some tools are a lot easier to deal with than others, but what tools someone uses is a personal choice (like Pam stated above).

After a while, I decided that I wanted to melt larger globs of glass in a shorter amount of time than I was able with my trusty Hot Head. I also wanted more control over my flame. I wanted to add detail to my sculptural beads without melting other stuff in. So, I looked around and found the Lynx. I loved my Lynx and was very happy with it for a long time. I gave my Hot Head to a friend of mine who had taken a bead class, but was not ready to purchase an oxy/propane set-up. I was so happy that she could make beads and didn't have to wait. Her beads are beautiful, btw.

When I decided to work even bigger, particularly in boro, I felt that I needed a bigger torch. I still wanted the precision of the Lynx. So, naturally, I went with a Phantom. I gave my Lynx to my friend. She still used her Hot Head and after nearly a year, is just now getting that Lynx hooked up. I'm excited to see what beautiful beads she will be making on the Lynx.

So, there is my short story about the torches I have used and why. Oh, and just to clarify things, I bought my Lynx and my Phantom long before Willy and got together.
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  #97  
Old 2005-10-04, 9:38am
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I have a HH and a Lynx. I used the Hot Head for about 3 months and decided I wanted something a little hotter.

I love my Lynx and haven't had problems with carbon build-up, except one time when I realized I didn't turn up the 02 enough. But after I adjusted it, it was just fine. It stays cool to the touch and I can get near the flame to work on small detail.

When I do demo's I take the Hot Head and don't mind using it for short periods. It really is a good torch, especially for those that don't have the financial means to jump to a more expensive one right away or aren't sure they want to pursue beadmaking.

I would like to try a mini-CC and add it as a 2nd torch... so if anyone is wanting to sell theirs (say one they bought for $120.00) just let me know!!

Steph
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  #98  
Old 2005-10-04, 9:57am
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I started out on a Lynx with one concentrator. I did have problems with carbon build-up due to low oxygen. I got a second concentrator and since then I've had absolutely no problems with build-up, even when I use a tiny flame to do things like make headpins. I love the heat of the Lynx and it's great for boro beads (tons of heat), but I have ordered a Mini CC to try to use for soft glass. For my working style, I need more ambient heat for longer beads than I can get with the Lynx. I am just not disciplined enough to keep putting the bead back in the flame. And I think I may be able to get better reduction effects with the Mini CC. After I've had a chance to try it, I'll post my reaction.

I've also used a Minor, briefly in my studio and frequently in classes. I've only used it for soft glass. I like it, and it's a very comfortable torch to work on, but I have found myself wanting more heat. That's probably more because I'm used to having it than because I actually need it.

Courtney
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  #99  
Old 2005-10-04, 10:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cghipp
I started out on a Lynx with one concentrator. I did have problems with carbon build-up due to low oxygen. I got a second concentrator and since then I've had absolutely no problems with build-up, even when I use a tiny flame to do things like make headpins.
I had the same issues with my Bobcat (that's my only torch right now)... I used to have to use that little wire that came with it to clean out the ports after each torch session, but that no longer is an issue, and I can't say for sure if the problem ended when I got my second concentrator (which is a good thing, because I can't find my port wires for the life of me!). I do regularly have to adjust my knobs because they slip, though. I can't even say that its annoying anymore, because I've just gotten used to it. But I'm not planning on getting a new torch anytime soon.

I started on the Hothead, and I'd list the benefits the same way Kimberly did... low cost, slow flame = great for beginners, or even experienced beadmakers that still want that slow flame. I even liked the loud "WHHOOOSSSHHHH" noise...
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  #100  
Old 2005-10-04, 11:19am
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What Pam said.

and I'm a GTT fan. I've got a Mirage and I love it. If I didn't work boro almost exclusively, I may have a Beth Cuda. I have worked on that torch and really like it. Like other people have said, it's a personal choice and there really aren't any bad torches out there. At least none that I have worked on. They might not be best suited for what I do, but they work great for somebody else.

Thanks for bringing this back on track and sharing the love!
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  #101  
Old 2005-10-04, 12:11pm
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I just want to state that some of the posts have been allowed to stay since they do contain valuable information. It may be opinion or fact, we don't know, make up your own mind. People should not be subjected to only one side of the story. Both sides have been heard now though, anything further posted in regards to if kbinkster or corina are right will be deleted. It is bringing down a very useful (IMO) thread.
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  #102  
Old 2005-10-04, 12:13pm
CorriDawn CorriDawn is offline
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Also, I have a bobcat and LOVE it. run it on two concentrators. It does great. It seems to not like running as well off of just one, the ports tend to get more soot, but it is ok, I just prefer two.

I have worked on a minor and like the Bobcat better and love the sleek look!
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  #103  
Old 2005-10-04, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin's Glass Eye
I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.

Help me out here guys, what is a oxycon and why do you need more than 1?
Thanks and sorry if this is a stupid question...
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  #104  
Old 2005-10-04, 12:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorriDawn
Also, I have a bobcat and LOVE it. run it on two concentrators. It does great. It seems to not like running as well off of just one, the ports tend to get more soot, but it is ok, I just prefer two.

I have worked on a minor and like the Bobcat better and love the sleek look!
Hi Corri Why 2 concentrators...I have read the threads where people use a Lynx with one oxycon and it works great and others are using 2 concentrators,,,is it the type of glass that you are melting or do you want more heat to meltthe glass faster? Thank-you for your help diana
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  #105  
Old 2005-10-04, 12:41pm
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Soooo - as someone who wants to upgrade from a HH to, say a Minor, can you experienced guys discuss why someone chooses a concentrator over a generator or vice versa. What "pressures" (? psi or??) or whatever is a person seeking to run the next level torch (I think Minor, Lynx or mini cc) without having to invest in a second concentrator/generator in a year? I'm thinking only 90-104 coe at this time.

Last edited by Vicki B.; 2005-10-04 at 12:57pm.
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  #106  
Old 2005-10-04, 1:02pm
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The simple difference between a concentrator and generator is that the generator is more powerful.

Both have limitations and what you need really depends on which torch you decide to buy. The Minors, Mini-CCs, Bobcat and Lynx can all be run with one or two concentrators and all with one generator. I have been running my generator for a year without any problems.

I use the Oxycon+ Generator and a Lynx torch. The combination is perfect for the work I do which is small to medium beads and sculptural flowers. The Oxycon+ can run my Cheeta but not at full capacity of the torch. I use mostly Bullseye/Moretti/Check glass.

Barb
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  #107  
Old 2005-10-04, 1:10pm
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I have a bobcat & love it! It does not get hot so if the need be, you can rest your knuckles/fingers on it. I too had the same problem Nichole had with the carbon build up. Used one concentrator I purchased on ebay. I now have a newer concentrator and was planning on connecting the two (y-connector), but I kept blowing the fuses. So I decided to tryout just the new one, and you know what? No carbon build up at ALL!! I'm thinking my older concentrator may need some reconditioning I will most likely hook them together again, but first need to take the time to figure out the fuse thingie...
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  #108  
Old 2005-10-04, 4:18pm
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Haven't read all the posts as my DH wants to check the tide tables....

All I can say is I pay $80 to refill my oxygen bottle think it's a K bottle (44lbs Oxygen) and I have to pick it up! (Actually my DH picks it up it outweighs me by about 40 lbs!) so to those of you that pay $5 or $15 hissssssss!!!! It lasts 20 -24 hours with a minor torch....

I started on a hot head, my husband stole that to weld with works great for outdoor plumbing repairs,

I have a minor on a concentrtor and one on bottled O2 they both get used big encased beads and BU get real Oxygen, everything else gets the concentrator, some things like hollows work better with the concentrator...

That is my two bits!

Lynne
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  #109  
Old 2005-10-04, 6:56pm
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Diana - I know I've heard of one or two people using a Lynx with one concentrator and being satisfied with it, but in truth one concentrator leaves the torch greatly underpowered. Kind of like running a car on four cylinders instead of eight. I had to turn my propane pressure way down to make it work, myself. And then I found myself running out of heat when I need it, and clogging up in the middle of a bead. Adding another concentrator made all the difference. So I would say, if you want to work with only one concentrator you'd be happier - and have less trouble - with a smaller torch.

Courtney
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  #110  
Old 2005-10-04, 9:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cghipp
Diana - I know I've heard of one or two people using a Lynx with one concentrator and being satisfied with it, but in truth one concentrator leaves the torch greatly underpowered. Kind of like running a car on four cylinders instead of eight. I had to turn my propane pressure way down to make it work, myself. And then I found myself running out of heat when I need it, and clogging up in the middle of a bead. Adding another concentrator made all the difference. So I would say, if you want to work with only one concentrator you'd be happier - and have less trouble - with a smaller torch.

Courtney
Courtney Would a smaller torch be a Bobcat??
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  #111  
Old 2005-10-04, 9:58pm
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Dang! (sticks finger in ear) is someone yelling in here??

I took one lesson on a minor and was told by my instructor Leah Fairbanks to buy a minor because I could grow with it. I've done a LOT on my minor and I love it. I used it with a concentrator and hated it. Didn't seem like there was any room to crank up the flame to make big beads so I stick with my tanked air. I keep 3 tanks.. 2 large and 1 small and air gets delivered to my door (the guys at Airgas like me ) I've never had anyproblems with in the 3 years that I've had it.

I also own a Mini CC and I love it too.. I don't like how hot the knobs get but other than that, it give me more oomph to do some of the boro stuff. I've only had it a short time and I just go the crowley marver for it. I've got to get my other ventilation on that side before I crank up the boro production (insert hearty laugh)

One of these days I'd like to get a bigger torch and do some sculptural boro stuff, I talked to one artist who said the Phantom is the ONLY way to go, but I'd really like to try one first.

I tried a Wildcat at Glass Stock briefly and liked it. It would be great if there was a place to try out several different torches before you buy!



Kristi
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  #112  
Old 2005-10-05, 4:11am
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With respect to concentrators ... they are not all created equal, In order not to reduce my pink glass I have to turn the propane down so low I can pratically stick my finger in the flame... I have used other peoples torches that were on the same size concentrator but a different manufacturer, they seemed to have way more available Oxygen.... (grass is always greener scenerio!)

Someone asked about concentrators .... The refurbished medical ones are $200-$400 and the new bigger ones are $1530, which is why running two smaller ones is definitely an option. There is a thread on WC explaining that if your two concentrator are not equally 'powered' your output will only be as good as your weaker concentrator, however you still have the exttra oxygen available...

I keep thinking I need a bigger torch and was thinking lynx, nobody has said anything about it gettin hot does it? because I do occasionally rest on my marvering pad on the top of my minor, and have enough burns.... I'd like to start doing long beads 4-5 inch barrels ..... suggestions

Lynne
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  #113  
Old 2005-10-05, 6:32am
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Diana -

Yes, a Bobcat, Minor or Mini CC would all do much better on one concentrator than a Lynx.

Courtney
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  #114  
Old 2005-10-05, 6:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cghipp
Diana -

Yes, a Bobcat, Minor or Mini CC would all do much better on one concentrator than a Lynx.

Courtney
Courtney Thank-you for your help. diana
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  #115  
Old 2005-10-05, 7:29am
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You're quite welcome! If you still haven't gotten a concentrator, a friend of mine recently got a Caire Breeze from Precise Concepts/Hobbies for Us and it's much more powerful than her other 5 lpm concentrator (which I think is an Oxycon but I'm not sure).

Courtney
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  #116  
Old 2005-10-05, 9:32am
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Does anyone know anything about the Onyx+ generator/concentrator? Anyone have one, what sort of torch are you using with it?

It's supposed to output 20psi !!
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  #117  
Old 2005-10-05, 10:23am
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Kristi,

I have the Oxycon+ and use it with my Lynx. I have had it for one year and it runs great. There is a difference between using tanked oxy and using a generator but my work has improved using the generator. You should talk the vendors or go to their websites regarding specs. [I bought mine from Suncoast.]

Barb
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  #118  
Old 2005-10-05, 10:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barb
Kristi,

I have the Oxycon+ and use it with my Lynx. I have had it for one year and it runs great. There is a difference between using tanked oxy and using a generator but my work has improved using the generator. You should talk the vendors or go to their websites regarding specs. [I bought mine from Suncoast.]

Barb

Barb,

Can you elaborate on why you think your work has improved using the Onyx+? Also, what differences are there between the tanked air and the generator?

I talked to the rep last year at the Gathering, but they were rather new. I'm saving up pennies to buy one I think and will most likely buy it from Suncoast. Just looking for USER input vs. statistics.

Thanks for any opinions you can offer.

Kristi
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  #119  
Old 2005-10-05, 12:25pm
barb barb is offline
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Kristi,

Have to correct my post - I have the Onyx+ Generator (I used oxycon by mistake).

I will explain this non-technically because my brain is non-technical. I am now used to the flame so I am trying to think back to my original transition.

The only real difference is the intensity of the heat. If you want to do boro or very very large beads you will get frustrated but you can do both. I have no problems with any technique that I can contribute to using a generator rather then tanked oxy [I do have problems with techniques but that's me].

The upside to getting a generator is convenience. I can't tell you how absolutely great it is to just walk into my studio, flip the switch (always cracking your oxy knob first and letting it warm up) and sitting down day or night to torch for as long as you want.

So, unless your work requires a lot of heat then I don't think you will notice a difference. I have never hooked up a minor to the generator but I should just to see how it works. The Cheeta isn't as happy because it does require a lot more ompfff then the Onyx+ can give it but then I find the Cheeta too powerful for what I do so I don't use it even with tanked oxy.

The biggest problem with trying to explain the difference is each torch is different and each artist works differently. There are those artists who prefer working on less intense heat and power and those who want more. The Onyx+ and Lynx is a great combination for those who don't want to melt the cover off of the ceiling lights.

Forgot to answer your first question. My work improved because it slowed down the melting process which allowed me to concentrate more on the details. My dots and stringer control were better, my shaping and details were easier and when I need to encase I just turn up the heat and I have no problem melting large rods. I have seen no difference in the colors or in reducing. I really can not think of one thing I do that I could do better using tanked oxy - except maybe raku frit but again that might be the artist??? Also, I have less shocking with the Moretti glass.

Barb

Last edited by barb; 2005-10-05 at 12:34pm.
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  #120  
Old 2005-10-05, 4:27pm
KristiB's Avatar
KristiB KristiB is offline
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 4,274
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Barb,

Thanks fso much for your answer. It helped me a lot. I use a pretty low flame most of the time for stringer work, but like to turn it up for some things. I'm hoping I can purchase an Onyx+ next year. (crossed fingers) But, I think I will still keep my oxy tanks for boro.

Thanks again, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

Kristi

Quote:
Originally Posted by barb
Kristi,

Have to correct my post - I have the Onyx+ Generator (I used oxycon by mistake).

I will explain this non-technically because my brain is non-technical. I am now used to the flame so I am trying to think back to my original transition.

The only real difference is the intensity of the heat. If you want to do boro or very very large beads you will get frustrated but you can do both. I have no problems with any technique that I can contribute to using a generator rather then tanked oxy [I do have problems with techniques but that's me].

The upside to getting a generator is convenience. I can't tell you how absolutely great it is to just walk into my studio, flip the switch (always cracking your oxy knob first and letting it warm up) and sitting down day or night to torch for as long as you want.

So, unless your work requires a lot of heat then I don't think you will notice a difference. I have never hooked up a minor to the generator but I should just to see how it works. The Cheeta isn't as happy because it does require a lot more ompfff then the Onyx+ can give it but then I find the Cheeta too powerful for what I do so I don't use it even with tanked oxy.

The biggest problem with trying to explain the difference is each torch is different and each artist works differently. There are those artists who prefer working on less intense heat and power and those who want more. The Onyx+ and Lynx is a great combination for those who don't want to melt the cover off of the ceiling lights.

Forgot to answer your first question. My work improved because it slowed down the melting process which allowed me to concentrate more on the details. My dots and stringer control were better, my shaping and details were easier and when I need to encase I just turn up the heat and I have no problem melting large rods. I have seen no difference in the colors or in reducing. I really can not think of one thing I do that I could do better using tanked oxy - except maybe raku frit but again that might be the artist??? Also, I have less shocking with the Moretti glass.

Barb
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