Crying UNCLE!!!

LynieG · #1 2011-01-16, 9:10pm

Ok I bought some new DH glass - currently working with Kalipso. I have tried different base beads so that I don't use up this expensive stuff. I can get LOTS of silver out of it but how do you get the colors? I have tried reducing - striking - reducing and striking - stricking and redusing. Cooling it, cooking it and by the time I am done - muushing it LOL well not really the last part but it sounded good at the time! Is there a secret to pulling the colors out of the DH glasses? The same thing happens with Gaia DH, I have LOTS of silver beads now! They are nice but really was hoping for some color to go with it.

I have tried searching the forums with the search but all I came up with was the tut on different base colors to use - which btw, is a way cool thread = LOTS of good info there!

SSOOOO at this point I am ready to cry uncle! I think some one should write a tut on how to pull the color out of the different DH glasses. It would be priceless in my mind LOL. TAG has a great site on how their glasses work. altho I can't say that I have tried my TAG glass yet.

I have used these forums endlessly for everything and drooled over all the beads I have seen. The advice that I have learned is priceless so Thank you in advance for any info on this subject!

GlassGalore · #2 2011-01-16, 9:21pm

Here's a whole thread of Kalypso info from the Gallery. Had you seen this one yet? I didn't read it all the way through but figure there must be some tips in it.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=173126

Basically, I work it in a neutral to oxidizing flame at first, then up the propane a tiny bit and lightly reduce it, then encase and reshape or press and into the kiln. You won't see pink going into the kiln. You want to see a lustery (reduced) amber-ish color.

Hope this helps!

zen-mom · #3 2011-01-16, 9:22pm

There is a tutorial or 4, written by Kim Neely...
http://www.bluffroadglass.com/tutorials.html

Scroll past the Color Archive, it's an amazing inspiration guide but not a tutorial.

Hayley Tsang also has tutorials:
http://shop.envisionsf.com/category/ebook-and-tutorials

Good luck!

seedbead · #4 2011-01-16, 9:37pm

Well, I'm just learning about DH and reactive glass myself, so I can only say what has worked for me, and even then, only sometimes... I have a hard time getting consistent results.
What I've learned so far is there are two types of reactions: Striking and Reducing. Since I'm using a Hot Head torch, I find it much easier to get results with the reduction type.
I like to make dots (right now I'm just having a dot phase) of the reactive color, over a base color, so as to get the most milage from the pricier glass.
Some of the base glass reacts with certain silvered colors in different ways as well. There is another thread about which colors to try as base colors in this section, and it has good information.
When I get the dots where I want them, I melt them in (mostly), bring the bead out of the flame and let it cool til the glow is gone, then I bring the bead into a reduction flame, and the dots all turn colors and get that silvery shine. Then I add another dot of clear right over the silvery dot, but don't bring the silvery part back to the flame or the reduction seems to burn away, after all my dots are encased, I reheat the whole bead and shape from there. I get all sorts of colors, some even have an opal look to them.
Anyway, thats all I know so far, hope it helps. Also hoping someone will explain striking colors to you, since I've had no luck with that at all yet...
Looking forward to seeing what others have to say, as I am just starting to have fun with these beautiful colors as well! Best of luck getting the great colors, and have fun!

LynieG · #5 2011-01-16, 10:12pm

OK soooooooo instead of a book on DH colors and how to work them how about a book on search words. I put in DH in the search menu and came up with a few things - but DUH should have put in Kalipso and would have come up with my answers. However, that being said THANK YOU so much Lisa for the info that it will go into the kiln amberish - I have a couple in there now and will have to see what comes out in the morning. I thought maybe I cooked it. Will let you know! LOL I was looking for the colors before going into the kiln and maybe I still should be - I don't know?

LynieG · #6 2011-01-16, 10:14pm

Also, thank you Lisa, Donna and Seedbead. Your info was great and going to have to try again just as soon as I get more oxy - used the rest of mine up trying to get me some color LOL

zen-mom · #7 2011-01-16, 10:21pm

Just an fyi, if you're going to search the term Kalypso... it's spelled with a "y" not an "i"...

You know, just so you know.

LynieG · #8 2011-01-16, 10:34pm

ROFL - ok so I need to learn how to spell too!

zen-mom · #9 2011-01-16, 10:37pm

Nah, I just wanted you to know so you might have a chance at finding the info you want

Pat · #10 2011-01-17, 9:29am

Also FYI there are tuts to purchase in the tutorials section. One by Anouk and one by Chrissy on working different silver glasses.

LynieG · #11 2011-01-17, 9:49am

I looked at those tuts and thinking about buying one or both but can't get them till after the first of the month. Been so excited to trying working with these silver glasses that I needed something just to give me an idea of what I am suppose to be watching for as I work with them.

I pulled what I did out of the kiln (6 beads) all of different bases and techniques, got some interesting results but also learned a little bit more about what was working and the stopping point I needed to watch for to get the different colors. Including base bead colors of what NOT to use LOL Will get pics and try to post later

Flamin' Francesca · #12 2011-01-17, 1:56pm

You might also check the Patio and look through the various silver glass exchanges. Hayley is currently hosting Silver Glass Exchange #7, and that has some info in addition to the ones that have ended, which have lots of good information on working various kinds of silver glass.

Damselfly · #13 2011-01-17, 2:14pm

I always get my favorite results from Kalypso (the dark burgundy jewel tones with bright blue iridescence) when I work it as little as possible, then burn off any haze that might be on the Kalypso, then a brief roll in a reduction flame, and encased.

LynieG · #14 2011-01-17, 5:13pm

Cool Damselfly I will have to try that one out - making notes. One of the things I discovered from a couple of dots that I put on one I thought I had totally distroyed was put on at the last minute - reducted and thrown (not really but I felt like it LOL) into the kiln. When I got it out this morning it had a kind of neat green to it! Made me wonder if I was working them too hot. Thank you!

Carolyn M · #15 2011-01-17, 9:00pm

If you used Aether to encase you will get green. Reduction glass colours shouldn't be worked like you are working them. Shape, reduce, encase, or sometimes shape, reduce, neutral, reduce, encase. Less is more with a lot of them

Kevan · #16 2011-01-17, 9:16pm

Reduce and encase. Easy peasy.

LynieG · #17 2011-01-17, 9:57pm

UUUMMMMM feeling like a REAL newbie now - I didn't know I was suppose to encase! Is that what makes the colors show up? I knew that most of them were encased - just didn't know if it was a nessesary thing! Hadn't tried it yet - was waiting till I got the color? Guess that's what I get for playing with fire before I know what I am suppose to do!

Dang maybe you can teach this ole dog a new trick or 2!!!

Damselfly · #18 2011-01-17, 10:06pm

It doesn't HAVE to be encased. You can get lovely results without encasing. But for that mother of pearl effect, it does have to be encased. Unencased, DH glass tends to get a nice metallic sheen. But I think the colors show up better when it's encased. Just my personal preference.

LynieG · #19 2011-01-17, 10:16pm

AAHHH That explains the metallic sheen!! Thank you so much Damesfly and everyone else for helping me out on this! NOW if I only had more Oxy so I can play some more! (Will have the funds in a couple of days! YEAY) I will try to post my beads tomorrow so you can see what I did right or wrong LOL and try to explain what I used and did with each one. Thank you ALL so much for your help!

LynieG · #20 2011-01-18, 6:51pm

Ok maybe I am being too critical off myself but here are a couple of the beads I have done. Advice?

This is done on ivory base with kalypso stringer and dots - fumed ivory to pinkish color and stringer and dots went silvery on me.

this is ALL kalypso - turned ALL silver.

this one is on pink base (wish I knew the color of the pink - was given to me) I did get a little bit of purple and blue but very little, image doesn't show it much.

This one is on Transparent Teal with Kalypso band. Pic shows some color but in real life its more a silvery color. Encased maybe being out the colors??

This one is also done on ivory base (reg ivory) encased in kalypso, it is the last one I did - thought I cooked it too hot cause it turned amber on me so I threw some dots on it reduced it quick and put in kiln. When it came out it has a slightly pink hue to it and the dots are silver except one on upper right side - its a slightly green color.

So these are my first attempts at Kalypso - any advice? Thank you for looking and all the advice so far! I have been taking notes and when I get more oxy Thursday I will put your advice to work!

zen-mom · #21 2011-01-18, 6:55pm

What kind of torch are you using?

LynieG · #22 2011-01-18, 7:30pm

mini cc with tanked oxy

zen-mom · #23 2011-01-18, 7:40pm

I found that my Mini CC was a little "propane-y"... I would turn the propane down and/or turn the oxy up a touch and back away from the the tip of the torch.

Do your thing, then cool, introduce to the flame and strike it, then turn the propane up and reduce it, then re-strike, just play with the striking and reducing and you'll figure out how to get all the colors and sheen, etc.

Damselfly · #24 2011-01-18, 8:14pm

I agree with Donna on turning the propane down and oxy up with Kalypso, and on other DH glass as well.

I never had to worry about striking it to get the deep burgundy color, so you might try a bead or two without that step.

In fact, the more I work it, the more it changes, and I get greens and ambers with the burgundy, without intentionally striking.

So, esp on ivory, make your ivory bead, dot and stripe the Kalypso, melt it in (which should get it hot enough to remove any haze on the Kalypso), then change to a light reduction flame and roll a couple times, then encase (without getting the Kalypso back in the flame until it's encased). Then melt the encasing layer, and reshape as needed.

It looks from your beads like they just got a little too much reduction. And not encasing will leave the metallic sheen, and not provide that flash of iridescence you see with encased beads.

Kalypso tends to get that reduction haze even in a neutral flame, so that's why I recommend burning off that haze first, then getting it back with a quick roll in a light reduction flame. When you make your next beads, make one with less reduction than you think will be good, just enough to see that slight shine on the bead before you encase it. It might not look like anything going into the kiln, but it often comes out looking lovely.

Carolyn M · #25 2011-01-18, 8:53pm

They are over-reduced. If Kalypso is your first silver glass colour, I would recommend trying Triton to work on reduction techniques, Triton reduces very easily, and pretty instantly. If you want to work on colour development try Psyche, and try reducing, then neutral, then reducing etc, until you see some lovely oilslick colours. Kalypso does best encased IMO, but if you encase after over-reducing you won't get great results. Silver glass takes a lot of practise, too bad it is so expensive.

Ok here is my recipe for you whenever you get your oxygen. Take a transparent base, preferably pink, encase with Kalypso. Let it cool, then waft in a reduction flame for a few seconds. Encase in clear, not Aether, making sure you encase under, not in the flame, so as to retain the reduction.. Pop into the kiln. Make another bead, this time reduce for a little longer. Experiment this way until you have a feel for how the Kalypso reduces for the results you want.

Gaia should not be encased it loses it's reduction. It just needs to be rolled in a reduction flame, check under a strong light to see if you have the blue/oilslick reduction, then into the kiln. Reduction should be done by rolling or wafting for a few seconds, then check, then rolling again, then check etc etc. If you over-reduce, back into neutral and start again

On a side note, you should have seen my joy when I first got reduction effects out of encased Olympia rain, one of DH's first production glass colours. That seems like a looooong time ago!.

LynieG · #26 2011-01-26, 6:58pm

I FINALLY got Kalipso to work and I LOVE it! Thank you, Thank you! Thank you!!! All your advice has been awesome and made things work soo easy!

I be doing the happy dance now!

Here are my results - haven't been able to do much since but I wwiillll!

the white one is more of a mother of pearl color - it just doesn't show on this pic.

I Love these colors - now I need to learn to take pics!

Carolyn M · #27 2011-01-26, 7:50pm

Those look much better, but you are still over reducing, and not getting the glass to strike as well as it can. I just made a set of simple encased donuts with Kalypso, Aurae and Clio. Try this. Make a tiny bead with Kalypso, remove from the flame and roll on a cold marver to form a tube shape. Let it cool down, then re-introduce to a neutrl to slightly reducing flame for les than a second. You should see the metallic appear and the glass should have gone from light amber to dark. Encase with clear to make a large donut. Do not reduce more than once.

This is the set I just made using this technique.

LynieG · #28 2011-01-26, 10:28pm

AAHHH I see! I think I introduced my first bead for a couple of secs then into a neutral flame and encased it. The others I reduced more than once and they went cloudy and mother of pearly on me. I do like the mother of pearl one tho. LOL Thank you so much! Gotta play again this weekend!

seedbead · #29 2011-01-26, 11:02pm

Hey Lynie! Congrats on getting those fun colors! I like the purples, and would love a closer look at the white MOP one!
Carolyn, those make my mouth water! Beautiful!
Now I really want to play with Kalypso! But for a bit, I will just have to be satisfied with watching what everyone else is doing. If DH sees another glass order arriving so soon, I'll have a lot of 'splainin' to do!

LynieG · #30 2011-01-27, 9:07am

LOL SeedBead! Thank you! I was really excited when I saw the colors. That one was my first bead after all the advice but then all the advice went out of my head and I over cooked the other 2. That was how I got the MOP one. I am going back down to play again today and see if I can't control myself! (Control yourself with glass you say??? Yeah RIGHT!) Will post pics again. As far as the glass goes, I shouldn't have organized mine into holders - I think I put my DH into shock when he saw what I had! LOL

Carolyn, After a sleepless night last night it finally sunk in a little more what you are talking about and the pics helped immensely (sp ck) Hence I'm a goin back down to the lab to play and practice some more LOL