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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2012-07-26, 7:10am
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Default Silver Glass Challenged

You would think that after all this time, since 2008 I would have figured out how to get those awesome colors out of DH and TAG glasses. I have tried everything. I am using a mini cc torch and oxygen concentrator. I am thinking it is a torch issue but not sure. My beads usually go directly to mud color right away. I don't see the other colors coming out.

On the propane regulator, what is your psi's? I have tried 2, 21/2, and 3. I anneal beads at 950 with ramping dow being normal.

Can someone give me their kiln setting and propane psi's? I think I am just hopelessly DH challenged. I have tried alot of techniques out there but rarely get any beautifuls colors. This is why I am thinking torch or kiln setting issues.

Thanks in advance for any input you can give me.
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  #2  
Old 2012-07-26, 7:15am
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Is your oxycon 5lpm? You might need more oxy. On some of the colors, if you don't burn off the haze they don't have much of a chance to do their thing.
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Old 2012-07-26, 7:41am
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My propane is on 1 psi and I work with two 5 lpm oxy's. Which glass do you use, striking or reducing? They need to be worked differently .
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  #4  
Old 2012-07-26, 7:42am
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Try lowering your garaging/annealing temperature to 925. Also make sure it is accurate, maybe test it with a pyrometer. Your propane psi sounds fine, as long as your oxygen is about 5-6 lpm.
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  #5  
Old 2012-07-26, 8:07am
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Hi Rebecca,
I have a ex-15 15psi Oxygen Con. 8LPM. So don't think that would be the problem.
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Old 2012-07-26, 8:08am
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Hi Anouk,

I have tried both reducing and striking techniques.
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Old 2012-07-26, 8:50am
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Jill you are gonna have to talk about each specific glass, not really as a whole, although they can be grouped sortta..

Assessment questions:
Have you ever been able to get a reduction on anything? (reduction frit, anything)

Can you work the striking orange, reds, and yellows?

every had any luck with Raku?
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  #8  
Old 2012-07-26, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabblingBeads View Post
Hi Rebecca,
I have a ex-15 15psi Oxygen Con. 8LPM. So don't think that would be the problem.
If your glass is going right away to that muddy brownish green color, you are working it in a reducing atmosphere. That is reduced silver on the surface which needs to be removed to reveal the good stuff underneath. You will need to adjust your torch or gas/oxy setup to oxidizing and keep it that way as you are working the glass. Depending on how big you are working, how your propane regulator is set, and a bunch of other factors, you may not have enough high purity oxygen from your concentrator to achieve that.
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  #9  
Old 2012-07-26, 11:29am
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I have gotten color sometimes. I used to get color more frenqently but I noticed my candles on my torch seem to get long and I have to turn the propane knob down. I am thinking my torch is having issues. Or I am thinking my concentrator isn't producing as much oxy. I just don't know how to check to see if there is an issue with them. I have tried different setting on the propane regulator and also on my oxy/con. I am just getting alot of browns.
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  #10  
Old 2012-07-26, 12:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabblingBeads View Post
I have gotten color sometimes. I used to get color more frenqently but I noticed my candles on my torch seem to get long and I have to turn the propane knob down. I am thinking my torch is having issues. Or I am thinking my concentrator isn't producing as much oxy. I just don't know how to check to see if there is an issue with them. I have tried different setting on the propane regulator and also on my oxy/con. I am just getting alot of browns.
I would bet Oxycon if in fact there is a problem with the hardware. How much run time is there on it?
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Old 2012-07-26, 5:32pm
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Jill, are you talking about reducing or striking glass? I assume you're talking more about striking glass? I do have trouble with it on my mini cc, too.
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  #12  
Old 2012-07-26, 8:53pm
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Jill, are you setting your flame to neutral, and then as you are working on the torch, you seem to get a sudden overflow of propane? Because I was having this issue a while back, and I had to adjust the regulator on my propane tank up to 4 or 5 psi (from 2 to 2 1/2) because it kept going wonky on me. After that I haven't had any more problems. Also, do you have the knob on your oxy con turned all the way up? If so, you may want to back it down a bit. I find that I get a richer oxygen level when I keep it a noch or two below max. The next thing I would check would be your oxy con. Maybe you need to clean your filter? It definitely sounds like you are getting too much propane in your flame while working silvered glass if you keep getting yucky mud. I hope you get it fixed, I know it can be frustrating when all you want to make is purdy beads.
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Last edited by trickypixies_jewelry; 2012-07-26 at 8:55pm.
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  #13  
Old 2012-07-27, 12:24am
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Same boat, browns. When I do get color it's gone quick, like ekho..I see color but then I can't shape it or do anything other than small rounds or they are brown. I've tried so many different ways and adjusting this or that that I've just given up.

I can do raku, terra, reducing, but once it's anything that isn't blue..ie picasso, kronos

I hope you figure it out and can one day do it, don't be a quitter like me
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Old 2012-07-27, 3:15am
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You are working in a reducing flame. Open up your oxy a bit more and close your propane a bit more, work further out in the flame. In an oxidizing flame, the yellow bits of the candles should be very sharp and very small. Also with an oxidizing flame the torch tends to hiss louder.
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  #15  
Old 2012-07-27, 6:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickypixies_jewelry View Post
Jill, are you setting your flame to neutral, and then as you are working on the torch, you seem to get a sudden overflow of propane? Because I was having this issue a while back, and I had to adjust the regulator on my propane tank up to 4 or 5 psi (from 2 to 2 1/2) because it kept going wonky on me. After that I haven't had any more problems. Also, do you have the knob on your oxy con turned all the way up? If so, you may want to back it down a bit. I find that I get a richer oxygen level when I keep it a noch or two below max. The next thing I would check would be your oxy con. Maybe you need to clean your filter? It definitely sounds like you are getting too much propane in your flame while working silvered glass if you keep getting yucky mud. I hope you get it fixed, I know it can be frustrating when all you want to make is purdy beads.
Yes, all this. Guess I'm not to good at explaining Most of what you said is going on. It's like my torch has a mind of it's own. I will have the nuteral flame going then all of a sudden I will start to get little candles like more propane come on. The if I try a reduction flame, the candles will be just right then all of a sudden they get huge, too much propane. As to the Oxy/Con it has a clean filter. I am not too sure if the knob is turned to max but when I turn the oxy on the torch I mostly am in the 5-6 range on the scale.

I am thinking my technique is OK but my equipment isn't set right or something is just not right.

I will try your suggestions and see what happens.

Thanks.
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Old 2012-07-27, 6:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Same boat, browns. When I do get color it's gone quick, like ekho..I see color but then I can't shape it or do anything other than small rounds or they are brown. I've tried so many different ways and adjusting this or that that I've just given up.

I can do raku, terra, reducing, but once it's anything that isn't blue..ie picasso, kronos

I hope you figure it out and can one day do it, don't be a quitter like me
Same with me when I do get some color I then try to shape bead and loose the color.
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  #17  
Old 2012-07-27, 6:20am
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Lots of sound advise. Trickypixies nailed some of my issues. I think mine problems are from a touchy propane/torch or oxy/con. Will start to play around with settings. Please continue to give me ideas. I might just go back to my Mega Minor torch and see if I get better results too.

Thanks to you all.
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Old 2012-07-27, 6:35am
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I don't know if it helps, but I was having problems with maintaining my flame and called (Nortel, I have a minor) and he told me to turn the propane up at the tank. I use the knob on my torch to keep the flame small enough. I've heard that you should keep the oxycon lower than max also. I keep my 5 lpm at 4.5 or a bit under at the machine, and it seems to work fine.
Of course I'm still learning the silver glass, but I don't think my problems are with the torch.
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  #19  
Old 2012-07-27, 7:43am
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One thing I read caught my attention: "when I turn the oxy on the torch ...", so just thought I'd check - you know that the only time you should turn the oxy off at the torch while the oxycon is running is when you initially light the propane, & then at the end when you bleed the propane in the lines off when you are shutting off the torch? Except for these two times, if the oxycon is running, the oxy knob should be open at the torch or it can damage the oxycon.

There is one other thing that occurs to me. My caveat is that I don't work much with silver glass because my torch/oxycon set-up has issues that make it difficult, but I'm pretty darned sure that you have to have your bead shaped & ready to go into the kiln before you reduce or strike the glass. You can't expect to get pretty colors & then continue to work the glass because those colors are ephemeral while in the flame & will change if you continue to work them. That's my understanding of the issue, at any rate.

ETA: Encasing silver glass is a whole 'nother dealio, I do believe.
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Old 2012-07-27, 11:44am
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<Yes, all this. Guess I'm not to good at explaining>

Nope, I had a pretty general idea of what you were explaining, I just wanted to make sure that my previous experience was your current experience. I had to shut off my propane tank and bleed my line out. Then I shut off my torch, and turned my regulator up to about a 5. This helped to regulate my torch (I'm working on a Nortel Minor) so I wasn't getting a "spazzy" flame anymore. I've had good luck with this so far (knock on wood bench), and I hope it can help you too.

As for the silver glass.... Reducing I can get fabulous results, and striking glass I am a master at achieving 3 colors consistently: Baby Poop Yellow, Sludge Blue, and Mud! But this is when I encase anything. If I leave it uncased, heat the snot out of it once till it's clear and about to come off the rod, shape, and then gently re-heat I can manage to get some good results.
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  #21  
Old 2012-07-27, 4:06pm
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I'm working on a mini cc too and I don't think it's your torch, it's the oxycon. I had the same thing happening, the flame would be fine and then shoot up for a second then go back down to normal. I work pretty hot most of the time and the oxycon just couldn't keep up with me at times. I added a holding tank and it eliminated the "breathing" problem entirely. I now run two oxycons but I still have them going into my holding tank and love it.

It's a lot easier than you expect, I'm not very handy with stuff like this but I made my own holding tank following Trey Cornette's tutorial:

http://www.treycornette.com/category_23/Tutorials.htm

I'm sure you'll see a big difference when you add a holding tank for a single oxycon. Also, don't recall you mentioning this but how old is your oxycon? I noticed my old oxycon started to lose strength after about 4 years, it became more evident because the candles on my mini cc wouldn't keep a neutral flame, kept leaning toward a reduction flame the longer I worked.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BabblingBeads View Post
I will have the nuteral flame going then all of a sudden I will start to get little candles like more propane come on. The if I try a reduction flame, the candles will be just right then all of a sudden they get huge, too much propane. As to the Oxy/Con it has a clean filter.
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  #22  
Old 2012-07-30, 6:59pm
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Ditto on the breathing.
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  #23  
Old 2012-08-02, 8:09am
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Sorry, didn't get back to this sooner. My oxycon is about 5yrs old now. I am thinking you might be right. It is just recently that I have been having this problem. Might have to look into the hold tank.

I turn on the oxycon about 5 minutes before starting. I only power if off an the end of my torching. I do turn it off at the torch when I am done with a bead and reopen when I start on a new one. Is this wrong?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansuya View Post
I'm working on a mini cc too and I don't think it's your torch, it's the oxycon. I had the same thing happening, the flame would be fine and then shoot up for a second then go back down to normal. I work pretty hot most of the time and the oxycon just couldn't keep up with me at times. I added a holding tank and it eliminated the "breathing" problem entirely. I now run two oxycons but I still have them going into my holding tank and love it.

It's a lot easier than you expect, I'm not very handy with stuff like this but I made my own holding tank following Trey Cornette's tutorial:

http://www.treycornette.com/category_23/Tutorials.htm

I'm sure you'll see a big difference when you add a holding tank for a single oxycon. Also, don't recall you mentioning this but how old is your oxycon? I noticed my old oxycon started to lose strength after about 4 years, it became more evident because the candles on my mini cc wouldn't keep a neutral flame, kept leaning toward a reduction flame the longer I worked.
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Old 2012-08-02, 8:15am
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I was told to only turn it off at the torch when lighting the flame. I was told that leaving it running but no outlet for extended periods can damage it.
I personally just leave my torch on unless I am going to be not melting something with it for more than a few minutes.
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Old 2012-08-03, 5:20pm
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Gosh, I'm surprised your oxycon has lasted that long if you've been closing off the air flow! I was taught to keep my oxy valve on my torch open at all times except when I'm lighting the torch. I don't necessarily leave it wide open, about half open in between beads but I was told the air pressure blowing back into the oxycon would eventually damage it. Don't know if that's correct but I'm not willing to test it out on my oxycons, lol. Also keeping the air valve open when you're finished helps to cook your torch down too.
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