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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

Beads of Courage


 

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The Dark Room -- Photo Editing and Picture Taking. Advice, tutorials, questions on all things photoshop, photo editing, and taking pictures of beads or glass.

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  #1  
Old 2006-12-19, 12:43am
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Default I need some photo help, my pictures look flat to me

First off, I have a Nikon D50 with the macro lens, a light tent and Photoshop 7.0, so it's not my equipment's fault.lol

See this picture of this bead?



This bead is very dimensional. It's heavily encased with several layers. In person you can see into it and it's pretty cool, if I say so myself. In this picture, you can't see that at all.

Here's another picture of the same bead.



See, flat. You can't see that it's encased at all.

Also, I seem to be getting a white reflection on the lower side of the bead from the white surface it's sitting on.
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Old 2006-12-19, 2:01am
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Hi Kevan,

cant use flash to take pic of shiny things. It gives you hot spots (or white reflections).

Small opening to get more light for the lens, to get the picture brighter.

What kind of lighting you use with the light tent?
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Last edited by born2snooze; 2006-12-19 at 2:08am.
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Old 2006-12-19, 3:45am
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No flash. I have the white florescent bulbs. I'm using aperture priority, not auto.

I can take pictures of other beads and they look pretty good. I just started making these beads that have layers of encasing and I don't understand why they look so flat.

This bead was taken under the same light. I don't think I'm 100% photographically challenged, only partly. lol



BTW, Addy, it's so good to see you posting again!
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Old 2006-12-19, 7:24am
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There is this reflection around the edges that is putting an emphasis on the surface at the expense of the depth. Could it be that that's the problem? You can see it especially on the vertical shot, on the left side, on the lower half. Just along the edge. See that white haze? (It's cutting diagonally through that central raku twistie.) I think you're right: it's the reflection from the white surface.

Maybe what you need to do is totally eliminate all reflections and see how that looks. (It may actually "flatten" the bead entirely, by removing all sense of curvature. But hey it's worth a try. Right?)

Okay, so here's what you might try: shoot the bead underwater. Take a uncolored tupperware container, like the shallow one you use for sandwiches, and lay a plain white bottom inside (I use a few layers of white matte plastic drafting "mylar" cut to fit the bottom of the container.) And then fill with water to about 1-1/2" depth, lay the bead in the water on top of the mylar, and shoot from above.

See if that helps. It really removes almost all reflections totally. Kind of eerie, actually. Another idea is to lay that tupperware container on top of a light source, so you can get some light coming up from below. This always appeals to me conceptually, but I never like the results. But you never know! It may be just the thing to emphasize depth inside the bead. Again: worth a try.

Jan
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Old 2006-12-19, 7:41am
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I have a coolpix L1 I need LOTS of help! I will watch and learn. PM me if you have suggestions for me please. (settiings, flash..help.)www.glassbrats.com to see pictures.
Thank you
KIm
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Old 2006-12-19, 10:04am
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No suggestions, but love that central raku twistie. I see what you mean about mysterious white reflection coming up from the bottom. I'm not sure I'd even call it a reflection, but the bottom of the bead is getting lost somehow. Try the water trick, and please post the results even if you don't like them, just as a learning experience for the rest of us.
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Old 2006-12-19, 3:54pm
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Kevan, A light tent was design to create soft flat light that will reflect into metal. So don't be surprised when your photo is soft and flat. Plus florescent are a flat soft light source as well. Black is a lot like metal, it will mirror what's reflected into it. In this case, all of the white that surrounds the bead. And last your light placement creates an equal source of light on both sides. So the Problem is to much de-fusion. Soft soft soft soft equals FLAT.
I've seen your paintings and I know you would never paint a still life with such flat light. Embrace hard direct light. Try it without the tent and only one light source. use a white card to bounce light into the shadow side.
Or try (with the tent) moving one light in close and back the other out.
You can also put black paper or fabric on the foreground to block the white from reflecting up onto the bead.
Remember if it works great! IF it isn't working try some thing else.
Scott
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Last edited by Tanner Studios; 2006-12-19 at 3:58pm.
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Old 2006-12-19, 7:22pm
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Thanks Scott. I have always liked the hard light in your and Amy Trescott's photos and I was happier with the photos I took without the tent. I just would like more depth with these encased beads somehow, though.

Like this one, it's better than the previous try, but still, you can't tell if that silver is on the surface or inside. It's inside.



This is that bead from the top post in water. You can really see the layers, but I don't like something about it, I'm not sure what. There certainly are more bubble in the Vet glass than the Lauscha, though. lol

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Old 2006-12-19, 7:38pm
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The problem with the one shot in water, is the water acts like a lens and distorts the bead a little. That first shot is very nice. Just needs a little tweak with the levels . A touch more contrast and a little brighter.



The top bead, all I did was move the white point in ( with levels ) which brighten and added contrast. the bottom was the same as the above but I dodge (lighten) the top and burned in (darken ) the bottom. Thus creating a more gradient light flow from top to bottom. The problem with lighting from the sides, is that you don't get the shadows under the silver bumps.
Scott
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Last edited by Tanner Studios; 2006-12-20 at 4:40pm.
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Old 2006-12-19, 11:59pm
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Kevan,

I wish I could help with the photography but I have no clue about how to make the subjects' appear more 3D in pics.

But, I have to say this: send the beads to me and I'll be the judge as to how 3D they are....

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Old 2006-12-20, 12:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanner Studios View Post
The problem with the one shot in water, is the water acts like a lens and distorts the bead a little. That first shot is very nice. Just needs a little tweak with the levels . A touch more contract and a little brighter.



The top bead, all I did was move the white point in ( with levels ) which brighten and added contrast. the bottom was the same as the above but I dodge the top and burned in the bottom. Thus creating a more gradient light flow from top to bottom. The problem with lighting from the sides, is that you don't get the shadows under the silver bumps.
Scott

Oh, cool. It's subtle but it makes a difference. I'm stealing yours for my listing. lol
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Old 2006-12-20, 4:24pm
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I want Scott to be my next door neighbor


Beautiful beads Kevan.
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Old 2006-12-20, 5:32pm
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Kevan, You can't steal what you already own!
Suzy Q , I am your neighbor, I live just down the street. 123 cyber place ave.
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Old 2006-12-21, 11:09am
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Scott,
Thank you for your excellent advice on photography technique. I found your tut on using levels especially helpful and it has certainly made "fixing" my photos much faster and easier than the methods I have been using.

Would you be willing to show a photo (or a diagram) of the photo set-up you are using for the images on your current auctions? Maybe include specifics for type of lights, placement of lights, etc.?

Thanks again for your generous help on this forum.

Carol
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Old 2006-12-21, 4:16pm
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Ok Carol, prepare to be unimpressed. My set up is as simple as can be. One light ( flash ) and a small piece of white foam core as a fill card.


Now what you need to know about this set up. It produces very harsh high lights.


As you can see, any little pit or finger print shows up like a neon sign. As well as the high lights reflecting from the other beads. Welcome to the world of hard light. Its not perfect. But what you get is fantastic color saturation.

So to solve the high light problem. I turn to my retouching skills. In photoshop I use the clone tool to retouch out the high lights. Then I use the dodge tool to paint the high light back in.

There you go my dirty little secret. And heres the final image.


Hope you still respect me in the morning
Scot
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Last edited by Tanner Studios; 2006-12-22 at 1:17am.
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Old 2006-12-21, 4:30pm
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Hey Scott, why don't you use a soft box? Wouldn't that make the light a little less intense without compromising the color?
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Old 2006-12-21, 5:04pm
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Suzy, I don't use a soft box because it would only create a large high light to retouch out. As well as, you just don't get the rich color saturation. Don't get me wrong I love soft boxes and use them every day. Just not on glass. Thats why I use a small reflector. I have tried a 4 inch a 8 inch and a 20 inch reflector and the high light is the same size. So I use the 8 inch. What you need to understand. Is glass is just tuff to shoot, it will reflect every thing. And any reflection will kill the color. Now my way is not right or wrong. It's just what is working for me at this time. And Like I have said before. If it works great and if it's not working try some thing else. There is more then one way to bake a cake.
Scott
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Last edited by Tanner Studios; 2006-12-21 at 5:12pm.
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Old 2006-12-21, 5:12pm
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Thanks Scott, just curious. I am pretty happy with my window set up but am always looking for another way. I have the old portrait studio sitting in the attic and the thought of pulling it out just doesn't appeal to me, lol.
Got any great tips for shooting silver foiled beads? I have a heck of time with a set like this one. I show a tent shot and a direct sun shot to show the color but I just hate the contrasty look:
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Old 2006-12-21, 5:44pm
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Hi Scott,
Simple set-up? Hmmmm... well maybe, but oh, man! just look at that equipment!!! Hardly what might be called "basic".

Thanks for posting the before and after images along with the set-up photo, it really is an education in what it takes to make a good photo a great one. How long does it take you to do all that retouching? It looks like a labor of love unless your beads command a really top price (that part of your auctions I haven't really followed).

I have resisted purchasing and learning to use a flash, but I may have to rethink that idea.

And now I respect your skills even more than before, but it is your tools that I covet.

Thanks again for the reply.

Carol
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Old 2006-12-21, 8:26pm
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Suzy, Metal combined with glass is a paradox. To bring out the metal you need to flood it with reflective light ( a light tent ). How ever that will kill the glass. To bring out the colors in the glass. You need hard direct light, which will kill the metal. A paradox. It can be done. I just don't know how to explain it. Just understand that you need to apply two radically different types of light in one situation. I know thats not helping. Find a compromise that looks good.

As far as the photos you posted. The first has no color in it. The second shows the color, But is a little harsh ( to much contrast ) So heres a simple solution. Use a fill card to bounce light into the shadows ( fill card : a white card or piece of paper that will reflect light back from the light source ).

An as an Artist, love the selective focus. But as an advertiser, what the hell are you thinking! I'm not buying beads I can't see. food for thought.

Carol, True, when it comes to photography. I have one sweet ass gear bag. But I could do the same with a bare bulb and a silver box steadied on a two by four. It's not about equipment. It's about seeing and understanding Light.

As far as retouching time. It takes about ten minute per set. Here are my steps for editing. Open the file, use levels to do image correction. Retouch. Resize. Sharpen and then save for web.
Scott
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Last edited by Tanner Studios; 2006-12-22 at 1:22am.
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Old 2006-12-21, 9:33pm
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Cheating with the retouching? Naughty boy.

We may need to punish you.
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Old 2006-12-21, 10:07pm
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Kevan, Oh please punish me . No really, please. Look, do you feel that make up on the face is cheating? Or are you just using the tools at hand to your best advantage . If some one falls a sleep with a princes and wakes up with a whore, that's evil. But if you have a great product which the client loves at the end of the day. And you used a little make up to get their attention. Will you sleep at night ? I will.
Scott
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Old 2006-12-22, 1:57am
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LOL! Scott you are a crack up.

Don't worry, I kill them with photos. I always include 3 shots in an auction when I use the close up of a bead.

Thanks, I will try the fill card.
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Old 2006-12-22, 2:11am
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No, I agree with you Scott. Photos are our only packaging on the internet. As long as one isn't altering the appearance into something the beads aren't, I don't have a problem with touching them up.

You know, I used to take my pics with pretty much the same set up you have. Then I let myself be talked into the light tent. I'm going back to the high key lighting. I have always thought - they are glass, of course they have reflections! I just want reflections of light, not the inside of the light tent!

I got a new camera and let myself think I needed the light tent. I used to take them like this



So, I think I will now with my better camera.

Thanks Scott.
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