Lampwork Etc.
 
Send a PM to CorriDawn!

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

Beads of Courage


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Boro Room

Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2010-05-05, 4:49pm
Plays With Fire Plays With Fire is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 05, 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Default Tungsten Pick Troubles

I have been using a tungsten to make holes in the top of my boro lampwork pendants and I am noticing a yellow smoke like burning that goes across my pendant and into the center of the hole I am making.
I am making a lump of clear glass on the top of the pendant and then squeezing the center with my peters tweezers. I then heat my tungsten pick to red hot and twisting it through the cooling glass to make the hole as I watched in a video. It was working great but all of sudden it has a greenish yellow film on the pick and is now smoking. Can anyone tell me what happened and what I can do to clean the pick off? I tried sandpaper but it doesn't help at all.
Thank you in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2010-05-05, 5:04pm
Dasi's Avatar
Dasi Dasi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,186
Default

You are actually heating your pick too hot.
I Get my pick hot by laying it on the top of my flame, not actually in the flame and then it goes right through the glass.
__________________
Heather Ferman Web site:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Viking knit End Caps for sale:
[/url]https://heatherferman.etsy.com[/url]

Last edited by Dasi; 2010-05-06 at 3:53am.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2010-05-05, 6:02pm
glowinglass glowinglass is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Suffolk County,Long Island, NY
Posts: 168
Default

Try NOT heating the pick at all - it's too small a mass of metal to shock the glass so it's not necessary. I think you're getting it so hot the metal is reacting with the glass - overkill in my opinion. I actually prefer a graphite reamer though.
__________________
George
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2010-05-05, 9:42pm
debkauz's Avatar
debkauz debkauz is offline
Covered in glitter
 
Join Date: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 15,680
Default

You're getting it too hot and fuming the bead with it. Breathing tungsten fumes is a bad idea so try to keep it a little cooler. The yellow is the fumed part.
__________________
~Deb~

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2010-05-06, 6:33am
Cosmo's Avatar
Cosmo Cosmo is offline
ManBearPig
 
Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowinglass View Post
Try NOT heating the pick at all - it's too small a mass of metal to shock the glass so it's not necessary. I think you're getting it so hot the metal is reacting with the glass - overkill in my opinion. I actually prefer a graphite reamer though.
You have to get it hot to pierce with it.

But, like others have said, the tungsten is getting too hot. You just barely need the flame to hit it. If you do get tungsten fume on the glass, you can burn it off easily in the flame.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2010-05-06, 7:41am
Bunyip's Avatar
Bunyip Bunyip is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
Default

yeah, I think of it as surfing the top of the flame - it takes a little practice but once you find the sweet spot you'll understand.
__________________
Chris Scala

Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"

Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2010-05-06, 8:44am
wickedglass's Avatar
wickedglass wickedglass is offline
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
Default

I usually just pull loops, but if I want to keep a pattern in the bail, I use home made bail nips made from long nose pliers. The bail nips will crush out the center of a bail leaving a larger hole. As a reamer, I have a gently tapering long shashlik skewer from the op shop.
Heat the long nose pliers with your torch at the point where you want to bend, and use another set of stub nose pliers to bend or twist it. These pliers were like $2 or $3 at a cheap chinese import shop. Don't heat them so hot that the metal sprays, though.
I've found that putting a twist in one side of the pliers' jaws works best for making round holes as the flat sides face inwards and the round sides face outwards. Make sure the flat sides slide past each other. I file them at an angle for that purpose.
Best pliers to use are the ones with a spring in them.
You can do the whole thing in 5 - 10 minutes.
No more tungsten pick problems
But if you really want to use the tungsten, angle the flame so it heats up the pick, but the flame doesn't touch the piece you're putting the hole in. This will avoid the fuming that Deb is talking about.
Attached Images
  
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Running a
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
by Miema on LPG and oxy bottles and a GTT Mirage.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2010-05-06, 10:43am
glowinglass glowinglass is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Suffolk County,Long Island, NY
Posts: 168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
You have to get it hot to pierce with it.

But, like others have said, the tungsten is getting too hot. You just barely need the flame to hit it. If you do get tungsten fume on the glass, you can burn it off easily in the flame.
The pick - tungsten, stainless, graphite - merely opens the hole already made by the peter's tweezers following a second re-heat to soften it a bit. You're not really trying to melt through a glass that melts around 2800 degrees with a hot poker are you?
__________________
George
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2010-05-06, 1:53pm
HWCGlass's Avatar
HWCGlass HWCGlass is offline
Harold Williams Cooney
 
Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
Default

Tungsten maintains a stable temp higher than the melting point of boro; which is a hell of a lot lower than 2800.
__________________
Studio for the American Trade Bead; Advancing the craft of glass beadmaking through the art of self-collection.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

American Trade Bead Food Program; Necklace auctions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, entertainment that improves Colorado.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2010-05-06, 5:13pm
Mr. Meker's Avatar
Mr. Meker Mr. Meker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2009
Posts: 368
Default

Tungsten melts at 5555F and can not be melted in a neutral oxypropane flame. Oxidizing flames can light the metal on fire and then the heat of the metal buring can melt it self.
__________________
Melting boro with a National 3A and and two Devilbiss 5lpm 10psi concentrators.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2010-05-06, 5:32pm
Alaska Alaska is offline
Alaska Boro
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HWCGlass View Post
Tungsten maintains a stable temp higher than the melting point of boro; which is a hell of a lot lower than 2800.
Best that I could find on the net is that the boro softening point is at 1508 F with the working point at 2273 F. This perhaps will vary somewhat depending on color and brand.

Simax working 2300 F
Simax softening 1508 F

Druan working 2300 F
Duran softening 1517 F

Last edited by Alaska; 2010-05-06 at 5:36pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2010-05-06, 5:49pm
HWCGlass's Avatar
HWCGlass HWCGlass is offline
Harold Williams Cooney
 
Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
Default

Softening point is a hard term; your kiln at 1500 will do a lot of damage.

TPing a piece of boro is an activity of serenity; a task for the calm and confident mind. Using force? Then you are doing it wrong. Like a hot knife through butter.

I have no idea how many TP holes I have made in my years of bead making; ten plus thousand for sure.
__________________
Studio for the American Trade Bead; Advancing the craft of glass beadmaking through the art of self-collection.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

American Trade Bead Food Program; Necklace auctions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, entertainment that improves Colorado.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by HWCGlass; 2010-05-06 at 5:52pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2010-05-07, 5:26am
Cosmo's Avatar
Cosmo Cosmo is offline
ManBearPig
 
Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowinglass View Post
The pick - tungsten, stainless, graphite - merely opens the hole already made by the peter's tweezers following a second re-heat to soften it a bit. You're not really trying to melt through a glass that melts around 2800 degrees with a hot poker are you?
The heat of the tungsten melts the glass. I've never used peters tweezers. Never even heard of them, actually. I pierce all the way through with tungsten. I've actually pierced a 1" marble all the way through with tungsten at a demo just to show it could be done.

I've done probably 1000 loops like this in the past couple years. It's pretty much the only way I make loops any more.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2010-05-07, 6:17am
Bunyip's Avatar
Bunyip Bunyip is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
Default

There's a thousand ways to skin this cat - but drilling with hot tungsten is probably one of the easier methods. Handy Andy's do the work of peter's tweezers AND a tungsten pick - they may be worth a look: http://www.galacticglass.net/ Just squeeze 'em in the middle of a blob of hot glass, rotate while holding closed, viola, instant hole. You can reheat the glass and use the handy andy's to open it more or use the reamer of your choice.
__________________
Chris Scala

Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"

Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2010-05-07, 7:33am
debkauz's Avatar
debkauz debkauz is offline
Covered in glitter
 
Join Date: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 15,680
Default

I love my Handy Andy's! I have trouble with the tungsten pick so the HAs are terrific for me. I've actually melted through my tungsten pick more than once. It's a lot shorter than it was when I got it.
__________________
~Deb~

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2010-05-07, 10:34am
Jamn!'s Avatar
Jamn! Jamn! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 11, 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,255
Default

I will heat the pick and push it through so it pokes a bit out the other side then heat from the glass side to give it a bit more heat to push it though.

Peters tweezers are sweet! I bought mine at Arrowsprings.

OMG seriously all these #s? You can use a Tungsten rod to poke through boro. It works and works well. If you heat the tungsten too hot it does smoke. its TOO HOT! Everyone who has used tungsten has probably done it because otherwise you don't know how hot to get the rod before you poke. I melted a tip but then I melted the tip on a brass reamer too when I didn't realize the tip was still in the flame while working a pendant from the other side...
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Heidi

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Jamn!; 2010-05-07 at 10:39am.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2010-05-07, 12:12pm
fyrsmith's Avatar
fyrsmith fyrsmith is offline
Fire and Fluidity
 
Join Date: Jun 23, 2005
Location: Newport Oregon
Posts: 686
Default

You can also clean the gunge left by a too hot tungsten pick out of the hole with a diamond bead reamer. Do it in water and you get a nice smooth hole.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"It all depends on how you look at things" said the Churkendoose.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2010-05-07, 12:53pm
Jamn!'s Avatar
Jamn! Jamn! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 11, 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,255
Default

I hope after its cooled Don!! Hahahaha!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Heidi

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2010-05-07, 1:20pm
debkauz's Avatar
debkauz debkauz is offline
Covered in glitter
 
Join Date: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 15,680
Default

I do better if I get a small hole started with my Handy Andy's and then use my brass reamer to enlarge it.
__________________
~Deb~

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2010-05-10, 4:50pm
Plays With Fire Plays With Fire is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 05, 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Default

Thanks for all the information. It is all very interesting. I even talked to the lady that I purchased the tungsten pick from and she had no idea why it was smoking. I will get a new tungsten pick and try not getting it so hot and even heat the glass a bit more before using it.
I didn't try to use the tungsten pick until a few weeks ago and was having wonderful results until I got it too hot from the sound of it.
Before I started using the pick, I just made my loops freehand and then used my graphite pick or rod to shape the hole and keep it open. I was a bit shaky at times and my loops worked out most of the time but not always.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2010-05-10, 5:15pm
Cosmo's Avatar
Cosmo Cosmo is offline
ManBearPig
 
Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
Default

It's smoking because you are getting it too hot. You should be able to use the one you have unless you burned through it...
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2010-05-10, 7:30pm
debkauz's Avatar
debkauz debkauz is offline
Covered in glitter
 
Join Date: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 15,680
Default

You don't need a new one. Just use some sandpaper or steel wool to scrub the yellow crud off and it'll be fine. You can resharpen the point too.
__________________
~Deb~

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2010-05-11, 7:59am
Cosmo's Avatar
Cosmo Cosmo is offline
ManBearPig
 
Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by debkauz View Post
You don't need a new one. Just use some sandpaper or steel wool to scrub the yellow crud off and it'll be fine. You can resharpen the point too.
You don't even need to clean it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2010-05-13, 9:50pm
patezd's Avatar
patezd patezd is offline
Megan's personal Sherpa
 
Join Date: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Wasington State
Posts: 443
Default

And I've been doing it wrong all this time! I use Peter's Tweezers to make the dents, then heat the GLASS and push the tungsten pick through, heat the glass again and enlarge the hole with the tungsten until I get the size I want. I guess I'll have to start heating the tungsten instead and see what kind of results I get.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flinging flaming frit at friends for fun!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Deb
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 2010-05-14, 4:51am
ginkgoglass's Avatar
ginkgoglass ginkgoglass is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Aug 12, 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,868
Default

Deb, I do it the way you do it and like it much better than heating the tungsten. There is usually more than one way to do something and that way works for me.
__________________
Lana

Sexy Barracuda and Mirage

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 2010-05-14, 7:14am
Bunyip's Avatar
Bunyip Bunyip is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
Default

Yep, I'd suggest trying both ways and doing what works best for you and your art (I still highly recommend Handy Andy's, esp if you're a heat the glass kind of gal )
__________________
Chris Scala

Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"

Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 2010-05-14, 7:55am
patezd's Avatar
patezd patezd is offline
Megan's personal Sherpa
 
Join Date: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Wasington State
Posts: 443
Default

I would love a pair of Handy Andy's! I just bought the farm so I'll have to save up my pennies until I can afford to get some!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flinging flaming frit at friends for fun!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Deb
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 2010-05-14, 8:06am
ginkgoglass's Avatar
ginkgoglass ginkgoglass is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Aug 12, 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,868
Default

I have pair of Handy Andy's but you can also just get a pair of needle nose pliers and bend them.
__________________
Lana

Sexy Barracuda and Mirage

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 2010-05-14, 8:16am
glowinglass glowinglass is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Suffolk County,Long Island, NY
Posts: 168
Default

Thank you all for your input, especially the technical tidbits from HWCG and Cosmo - found it very enlightening, and will tweak my technique a bit.....
__________________
George
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 2010-05-14, 11:46am
Bunyip's Avatar
Bunyip Bunyip is offline
Pyromaniac
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ginkgoglass View Post
I have pair of Handy Andy's but you can also just get a pair of needle nose pliers and bend them.
Those are more like peter's tweezers (the bent needle nose that is). Handy Andy's have chisel edged Tungsten tips which make things a lot easier, can take heat & won't stick to glass..

edit: But whatever works best for YOU is what you should use
__________________
Chris Scala

Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"

Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy

Last edited by Bunyip; 2010-05-14 at 11:49am.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:43pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 54.196.106.106