Used Cheetah seems to be taking big deep "breaths"

Ashtonjewels · #1 2009-04-28, 6:08am

I purchased a used Cheetah and have been running on it on M-15 oxycon. I thought that was enough to run it fairly well, but I'm thinking I might need a second unit. .. Anyway, I've had nothing but problems with this torch since I installed it. I'm sure it's just me but I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

When I'm using my Cheetah, the candles seem to advance and recede. One minute the candles are short and blue and the next minute, the are longer and more yellow. It's almost as if it's "breathing" if that makes sense. When I open the center knob to about halfway, I get a really loud swooshing sound and some of the jets seem to be clogged or something. I turned down the pressure on my fuel regulator and that didn't seem to help. Maybe it just needs a good cleaning by GTT? My husband cleaned it with some little bitty torch cleaning wires, but it only helped for a day or so.

I did do some research here before asking and its seems my problem is not too uncommon. I did what was suggested (cleaning, running lower propane pressure). The swooshing noise and "breathing" is still taking place and I'm not sure what else to do to fix the problem. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

IF-Designs · #2 2009-04-28, 6:28am

higher pressure the cheetah really likes higher pressure when I had mine I set my propane at around 10-15 psi and my oxy ungodly high like 25-35 psi (had liquid o2 at the time) and it really liked that the lower oxy pressure might be screwing with your flame because the machine "breaths" and it sounds like your flame is breathing with the oxycon. You might want to try the holding tank method that is in the tutorials around here somewhere (I will go look here in a minute) if you can pump some of the oxy into a holding tank before you start to work you can use the pressure of the tank and compressor to help even out the breathing from your machine.

ah heres the tutorial i was thinking of its from Trey
http://www.treycornette.com/category_23/Tutorials.htm

Ashtonjewels · #3 2009-04-28, 6:35am

Thanks Karin, I'll check out the link! What about a second M-15. . .Do you think that would help?

Ashtonjewels · #4 2009-04-28, 6:40am

Doh. .. Never mind that last question. It was pretty dumb since you said that the Cheetah likes extra pressure. lol

pam · #5 2009-04-28, 6:50am

Lydia, I run my Cheetah on the OG-20 generator and I have no problems at all. I think the oxy is set at 15. The fluctuation is from the concentrator, not the torch. Your concentrator probably isn't putting out enough oxy to power the Cheetah, so as the concentrator uses it's "reserve" it is having to catch up. I tried a concentrator once that was a 15 (won't say what brand) and it did the same thing that is happening to you. With regard to the center knob, I only crack mine - never open it half way, 'cause it does HISS!

IF-Designs · #6 2009-04-28, 6:54am

the 2nd machine will give you more oxy but it wont increase the pressure. I think for alot less money you could do a holding tank and see if that helps.....its always a useful thing to have around.

shawnette · #7 2009-04-28, 6:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashtonjewels

Thanks Karin, I'll check out the link! What about a second M-15. . .Do you think that would help?

A 2nd M15 will really boost you up, but try the holding tank 1st. I ran my Cheetah just fine on 2 5lpm units with a holding tank. It won't power it 100%, but definitely enough for good sized soft glass beads. (2 M15s and a holding tank will really get you going!)

Ashtonjewels · #8 2009-04-28, 6:56am

Ah, I see. This all makes sense and thank you both for your help. I sent the Trey tutorial link to my husband. I think I'll try that and if it doesn't give me enough pressure, I'll just buy another 15 oxycon. Blech. . .mo money, but I'm sure I'll be much happier once I get it going.

Ashtonjewels · #9 2009-04-28, 6:59am

Awesome, Shawnette! I'm excited now but I think my husband will not be. lol His honey do list just keeps growing and growing and growing.

shawnette · #10 2009-04-28, 7:14am

Lol. It's easy enough to build the tank yourself. It took me all of maybe 15 minutes to build mine.

Ashtonjewels · #11 2009-04-28, 10:04am

Dang! That's quick!! Okay, maybe he'll actually have time to get to this little project then. I'd do it myself but I think this might be a good way to drag him away from Guitar Hero for half an hour. Then while he's making this little piece of equipment, I can totally hide his guitar.

kbinkster · #12 2009-04-28, 10:56am

It's not that the torch needs more pressure - it's that the concentrator is "breathing." When your candles go from neutral to reduction and then back to neutral, that is from a drop in oxygen - just like if you had turned the oxygen knob down and back up just a little.

On a two seive bed concentrator (like your's), one seive bed is pressurized while the other is depressurized and the contents emptied into an internal holding tank. When the concentrator is switching from one seive cannister to the other, there is a brief time where no oxygen is produced. If your internal holding tank is depleted, that pause is translated in the flame just like you described.

On most concentrators, the breathing is not that bad. On others, however, it can be exaggerated. Sometimes when the compressor is going bad the breathing will be greatly exaggerated.

Adding a second concentrator can help lessen the problem since the two machines won't be cycling at the same time. But, if your compressor is going bad, it won't do anything to stop that and you can start having other problems, as well.

Adding a holding tank can help with the breathing, too, but the same thing about the compressor holds true.

You might want to double check your green oxygen stud screen and make sure that there is no white powdery residue on that screen. That would be seive dust, a very abrasive substance that you don't want that getting into the valves of your torch.

Miss Kate · #13 2009-04-28, 11:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

Lydia, I run my Cheetah on the OG-20 generator and I have no problems at all. I think the oxy is set at 15. The fluctuation is from the concentrator, not the torch. Your concentrator probably isn't putting out enough oxy to power the Cheetah, so as the concentrator uses it's "reserve" it is having to catch up. I tried a concentrator once that was a 15 (won't say what brand) and it did the same thing that is happening to you. With regard to the center knob, I only crack mine - never open it half way, 'cause it does HISS!

That's exactly what I was gonna say. I run my Cheetah on a Regalia, and don't have that problem.

Ashtonjewels · #14 2009-04-29, 4:56am

Thanks for the info Kimberly. The concentrator that I'm using is working fine. The breathing is there, but it's not exaggerated, it's just irritating. Yesterday I hooked my 5lpm machine up to see what would happen if I boosted the pressure a bit and my flame environment was awesome then. So, I'm going to try the holding tank thing and see if that works out for me. If not, I guess I'll need to buy a second oxycon.

kbinkster · #15 2009-04-29, 6:23am

There is a difference between pressure (force) and flow (volume) when working with oxygen concentrators. Adding one concentrator to another does not boost the pressure, it increases the flow. On a tank, you have to increase the line pressure (with the regulator) in order to get a higher flow. And to add to the confusion, some generators have a knob to set the pressure. Most concentrators, though, only have the flow knob and the pressure is pre-set in the machine and will vary with the flow.

I'm glad that adding the 5 LPM unit helped. Hopefully, adding a holding tank will make it even better.

Hayley · #16 2009-04-29, 10:21am

Lydia - another solution is to sell the M15 and purchase a Regalia, especially if space is an issue. I tried the Cheetah with a Regalia at the Gathering last year and it was AWESOME!!! Well, it was actually too hot for me! lol!

LyndaJ · #17 2009-04-30, 5:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

! Well, it was actually too hot for me! lol!

Is that really possible???

Ashtonjewels · #18 2009-05-03, 10:20am

Well ya'll, I am excited to say that thanks to the reserve tank, my Cheetah is puring like a big ole kitty now. . .Man, I am LOVING this torch! Thank you all for the help and thanks be to Trey for putting this tutorial online!

pam · #19 2009-05-03, 11:14am

Oh, Lydia, I am so happy for you. The Cheetah is a wonderful torch!

IF-Designs · #20 2009-05-03, 12:01pm

SO glad thats working out for yea! yea!

FairyVerre · #21 2009-05-04, 7:20am

Where is the info on building a reserve tank please? thanks so much everyone

shawnette · #22 2009-05-05, 6:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairyVerre

Where is the info on building a reserve tank please? thanks so much everyone

See post #2

ChaseDesigns · #23 2009-05-05, 6:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashtonjewels

Well ya'll, I am excited to say that thanks to the reserve tank, my Cheetah is puring like a big ole kitty now. . .Man, I am LOVING this torch! Thank you all for the help and thanks be to Trey for putting this tutorial online!

Awesome. We have a holding tank and with four concentrators can run our cheetah and our barracuda at the same time. That thing really rocks.