finished bead pricing

[honey*bee]

I have been amazed by the price tags on some of the beads I see on websites. I just wonder do they sell? I have yet to sell any of my beads but I have been looking for ideas on how much they go for. Does anyone here have some amazing beads with amazing prices that have sold?

P.S not saying that the work isnt worth the price, I just know that most of the time the consumer doesn't realize the amount of effort put into a piece.

[Dennis Brady]

I just know that most of the time the consumer doesn't realize the amount of effort put into a piece.

It's more important that you understand the consumer doesn't care.

There is no real value - only perceived value. The consumer only cares what they think it's worth. They don't care how long it took you or how much the materials cost. They care only what they're willing to pay for it. You might think that's unfair, but many things in the marketplace are unfair. You have only two choices. Either accept the reality of the marketplace and work with it, or leave the marketplace.

I believe the best business advice I, or anyone else, can offer to any aspiring entrepreneur is to not price relative to what others price but instead to price based on your actual cost of production. What you expect to get paid is a lot more important then what anyone else charges. Many artisans with appealing prices achieve less then appealing sales volumes. Your total income is much more important then the income per piece sold.

I believe the second best advice is to start off selling as cheap as you can tolerate. If you don't start off selling cheap, you probably won't start off at all. Apprentices work cheap. Students pay to learn. There's nothing wrong with starting off selling for your out of pocket cost (materials + overhead) to gain experience. Many of the greatest names in art, music, and entertainment started by working free. If multi-millionaire entertainers launched their careers that way, what's wrong with a torchworker doing it?

[lunamoonshadow]

Most of the amazing beads with amazing prices have amazing beadmakers with amazing long-time careers building a following & a demand for their beads & they can't produce enough to meet that demand.
Like, say, Tink. (I'm using Tink because I know she won't be offended --she's a sweet, sweet lady!) For the longest time, unless you could get to one of the galleries she sold through, she only sold her sweet little vessels on her website, she'd only put them up a few @ a time, on a random schedule & it was "first email & payment & it's yours"--so, people who WANTED those vessels pretty much had to stalk them--and HOPE if you saw the one of your dreams (maybe you wanted purple? or teal? or a combo?) that you could be the first emailer! Oh, and no special orders! Giggle....They're worth every penny too...

I've actually got 5 spacers that I paid a dollar apeice for--from the little bowl on Kim Miles table back in 2000 @ the BeadExpo 2000 in SantaFe (I was visiting friends who sent me a plane ticket!)--I bought them with the plan to use them on a bracelet for resale--never happened because now it amuses me that I have really old Kim Miles $1 spacers!

The really fun thing for me is collecting some of the "new" beads from "new folks" who I think will do great things--I've got some of Nikki's first critters (ok, I've got a lot of Nikki beads) because when I saw them--I could just TELL she was going to do amazing FUN little beads--I'm a huge fan of "fun" beads--even though I primarily buy "useful" beads (it's why I got my own torch...to make "useful for jewelry" stuff...)---the "fun" beads just make me happy--Her critters NOW go for loads more than her critters did "then"--I used to routinely win her early beads on ebay for under $5 each. Not all beadmakers start out GETTING those prices!
(and...I won a couple Gelly beads the same way! And now I've got a couple MayBeads kitties--I see her going great places too--her kitties crack me up )

Really, if you've got the talent or the desireablility, you can carve out a nice niche to land in--it's all in figuring out WHAT it is you do, & where YOUR pricing lies.
It may not be in the $50 or the $100 beads. It may be in the $5 focal to seedbead through, or the $2 frit spacer. Or it may be in the $3 fun bead "now" that evolves into the $30 fun bead "later" when you find your following. It's all in finding your market, then STAYING with it--the most sucessful beadmakers I know have something up every single week, day in, day out, a constant presence, never dropping out of sight, their website is there, their auctions are there, if you're bored @ 3am, you can go find thier beads & shop/bid/drool/whatever...it DOES get them sales!!
~luna
(not nearly as dedicated as I *should* be with my jewelry since I got promoted @ my "real" job )

[Dennis Brady]

Most of the amazing beads with amazing prices have amazing beadmakers with amazing long-time careers building a following & a demand for their beads & they can't produce enough to meet that demand.

When Celine Dion performed at Las Vegas, she was paid $1 million per performance. She spent the first several years of her career performing free for practice and exposure.

Tony Onley's watercolours are worth $30G and up - some $100G. He started off selling them in the park for $20 each to buy groceries.

[Mr. Smiley]

My pricing is pretty much in the middle and I can't seem to make enough... I've had beads go for over $300 on Ebay. That kinda freaked me out. Market yourself and make the best quality, most creative pieces you can make. Try to set yourself apart in some way... in time, you'll find your customer base and build a following...

[Spookyjewel]

This is a really interesting thread for me, as I've just started selling my beads. I've found pricing really tricky! I'm aware that I can't be greedy to start with, but I don't want to charge too little and undervalue my work. I'm also aware of what other relative newbies are charging and I worry that if I charge more than them, they might think I'm saying my work is better than theirs...

Great points so far, guys!

[Dennis Brady]

Originally Posted by Spookyjewel

This is a really interesting thread for me, as I've just started selling my beads. I've found pricing really tricky! I'm aware that I can't be greedy to start with, but I don't want to charge too little and undervalue my work. I'm also aware of what other relative newbies are charging and I worry that if I charge more than them, they might think I'm saying my work is better than theirs...

Great points so far, guys!

Probably the biggest problem newbies have is learning what sells and what doesn't. If you put out something for sale and it doesn't sell, you don't know if it's because prospective buyers think your price is too high or if they just don't like it. If you drop the price and it doesn't sell, you know it's because they just don't like it. If you price it low and it sell it, you now know they like it and like the price. Maybe they'll still like it a higher price. Why not make another and try a higher price? It's a lot more efficient to start with a low price and work up then to start with a high price and lower it. You have a choice. Do you want to sell your work or do you want to build a collection of your own work?

What others think of your pricing is irrelevant. If you price it low, they'll think you're trying to undercut their pricing - but it could be that you just took more time to learn what the price should be. The same could apply if your price was higher then theirs.

Here's a little secret

It takes a lot longer to learn how to price accurately then it does to learn how to do good work.

Many artisans (even with many years of experience) have never bothered to learn accurate pricing.

[honey*bee]

Thanks for the input. In the stained glass business its is easier to base you price on what your competetors prices are. Here in Indy there are three main stained glass shops, FOX studios which are at the top of the price list and do the most extravagant work, Marry go Round glass, and Custom Creations in Glass (ours). We have the cheapest prices ,however are major competetors with the other two. In an area where there are only three businesses it is easy to find your niche and set your prices. In the lampworking business, where most of the business is done online it is harder to find your niche with so many different people selling the same things.

[Dennis Brady]

Originally Posted by honey*bee

Thanks for the input. In the stained glass business its is easier to base you price on what your competetors prices are. Here in Indy there are three main stained glass shops, FOX studios which are at the top of the price list and do the most extravagant work, Marry go Round glass, and Custom Creations in Glass (ours). We have the cheapest prices ,however are major competetors with the other two. In an area where there are only three businesses it is easy to find your niche and set your prices. In the lampworking business, where most of the business is done online it is harder to find your niche with so many different people selling the same things.

I've been in the stained glass business for 25 years and one of the first things I learned is that the great majority of other glass artisans had never learned how to accurately price their work and insisted on employing a ludicrously inaccurate per sq ft formula.

We definitely don't have the cheapest prices, but there are many projects we did that we were low bid. Where we carefully calculate what a project costs, our competitors often based their prices on their best good guess. If we got a job, we got it at a good price. If a competitor got a job we bid on, it was often because they unwittingly bid too low. The same careful cost analysis we learned for stained glass is used to price kilnforming, torchworking, casting, and sandblasting. It is possible to calculate exactly what it costs to make a bead. Unfortunately, there is no easy to use formula.

[honey*bee]

Originally Posted by Dennis Brady

I've been in the stained glass business for 25 years and one of the first things I learned is that the great majority of other glass artisans had never learned how to accurately price their work and insisted on employing a ludicrously inaccurate per sq ft formula.

We don't work based on a sq ft pricing, thats how we have the cheapest, also we have different suppliers than our competetors. We may cut ourselves short on labor ocasionally but generally it is to get a job that will help us get our name out there. We are the newest of the three however we are doing very well. We probably could charge more sometimes but like the saying goes "you gotta spend money to make money" we never lose money on a job but sometimes we bite the bullet, so to speak, so that we can aquire more business.

[pam]

Since your question wasn't really about pricing beads, but about whether really high-priced beads sell, I think your answer is yes, they sell. They don't sell as frequently as lower priced beads, but they do sell. I have sold two sets of beads that I considered high-priced. One was $300 and the other was $600. I have sold single beads for as much as 2 to $300. Most of the time I price my single beads around the $40 to $75 mark. I'm sure there are many that sell beads for much more than I do.

[loudgirl]

I've noticed on Ebay that even some of the really good bead artists will occasionally start out their bid too high and never get a bid. I think that good lighting and picture taking is crucial also. Sometimes I have seen just downright ugly beads. ( I put my ugly beads in a jar by my workstation)
Now then, I must confess that I haven't ever sold a set of beads on Ebay, but that is my goal. I am so addicted to making beads that I will put mine up for cost of supplies at first. I have been to my torch only 16 times so far....... So I still have a lot of learning to do. I really apprieciate all you experienced beadie people, thats why I read here!!!!

[Max Hardcastle]

I started two years ago and have yet to sell anything online. I sold a bunch of borosilicate pendants for $20-ish at a craft show... My problem is that I LIKE to lampwork, and I DON'T like to sell stuff/photograph stuff/advertise. I'm just now trying out etsy to see what that's like and I've been noticing how many hits different things get. I've kept the titles and tags basically the same, so it's the picture that is getting the clicks. A good picture (and obviously, a good object!) will get more hits! I'm very interested to see what things sell and what do not.

On a different note, does anyone sell to bead shops, etc.?

[honey*bee]

Pam
Thanks. This post orignated more out of just plain curiosity. I hope that one day I'll become creative enought to sell something for a large amount.

[loudgirl]

I have sold to a local bead shop, then she ups the price about half. She has a huge clientele that buy from her, so my stuff moves. I sell to her at my cost then plus a little. I don't make much but everyone knows me as the bead lady! Ah the price to pay for fame ......he he

[Carolyn M]

Originally Posted by loudgirl

I've noticed on Ebay that even some of the really good bead artists will occasionally start out their bid too high and never get a bid. I think that good lighting and picture taking is crucial also. Sometimes I have seen just downright ugly beads. ( I put my ugly beads in a jar by my workstation)
Now then, I must confess that I haven't ever sold a set of beads on Ebay, but that is my goal. I am so addicted to making beads that I will put mine up for cost of supplies at first. I have been to my torch only 16 times so far....... So I still have a lot of learning to do. I really apprieciate all you experienced beadie people, thats why I read here!!!!

I would strongly advise people not to sell on ebay until you have decent beads to sell. If you get a good reputation from the start you will succeed. If you sell 'beginner' beads, that will be the reputation you will get stuck with. I know that sounds harsh, but there is huge competition out there and you need to establish a core base of buyers who will pretty much bid on everything you put up for sale because they have had consistent quality from you before.

Also, it is pretty difficult to get noticed if you put your beads up for a very low price. It is sometimes better to wait until you have a fairly large quantity and sell them as a studio lot with a higher starting price.

[Imzadi]

Carolyn, what do you mean, "Sell them as a studio lot?"

[JetAge Studio]

Originally Posted by Dennis Brady

Probably the biggest problem newbies have is learning what sells and what doesn't. If you put out something for sale and it doesn't sell, you don't know if it's because prospective buyers think your price is too high or if they just don't like it. If you drop the price and it doesn't sell, you know it's because they just don't like it. If you price it low and it sell it, you now know they like it and like the price. Maybe they'll still like it a higher price. Why not make another and try a higher price? It's a lot more efficient to start with a low price and work up then to start with a high price and lower it. You have a choice. Do you want to sell your work or do you want to build a collection of your own work?

What others think of your pricing is irrelevant. If you price it low, they'll think you're trying to undercut their pricing - but it could be that you just took more time to learn what the price should be. The same could apply if your price was higher then theirs.

Here's a little secret

It takes a lot longer to learn how to price accurately then it does to learn how to do good work.

Many artisans (even with many years of experience) have never bothered to learn accurate pricing.

Dare I say, I really agree with this!
Every artist can get an accurate evaluation of what their work is worth with several factors....but you have to do some math. Some of these (basic) factors will include the amount of glass consumption per piece, (that includes figuring on the glass cost itself! IE, cost per lb of a particular type of glass; some glasses are far more expensive than other readily available colored glass), your electric consumption, your studio time, advertising time (photos and such),..you just have to figure in all of your "overhead" and labor cost, then you can make an accurate asking price for your work. Your work is also individual, so uniqueness, or custom work per se, will also factor in a certain asking price (which is where you could plug in the "how much I want to get paid" equation!!)...but that is what every artist must ultimately figure out OVER the "basic" number crunching!! Whew!!
Just my two cent..
Good Luck!!!
Renee Wiggins

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by Carolyn M

I would strongly advise people not to sell on ebay until you have decent beads to sell. If you get a good reputation from the start you will succeed. If you sell 'beginner' beads, that will be the reputation you will get stuck with. I know that sounds harsh, but there is huge competition out there and you need to establish a core base of buyers who will pretty much bid on everything you put up for sale because they have had consistent quality from you before.

This is very good advice! That's what I went with when I started selling. But I've made beads I thought were yucky, but still nice shaped and good quality. I put those up for 99 cents on a 7 day auction and let the buyers be the judge of what they think they're worth in the end. Sometimes I get a surprise!

[loco]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

My pricing is pretty much in the middle and I can't seem to make enough... I've had beads go for over $300 on Ebay. That kinda freaked me out. Market yourself and make the best quality, most creative pieces you can make. Try to set yourself apart in some way... in time, you'll find your customer base and build a following...

Very well said!

I figured out my cost per ounce of glass, what it took O2, propane, electric, figured in the cost of release and what nots, everything was rounded UP... I can weigh a bead and know my costs, but.... I also figure I'm saving a ton of money on various thangs by lampworking:

Shrink. Not needed as the voices have a way to play.

Clothes & Shoes. Jammies bottoms and an old T shirt. It's hard to find jammie bottom around here, but I refuse to shop! T shirts are hand me downs from DD & DH. I'm barefoot except when I go someplace. Whoops I need to add cost of nail polish!

Gas & Insurance. The mailman picks up all my outgoing and glass is delivered. I do have to go swap out O2 tanks and it's a bit of a drive, but I get a good price!

Granted I do have a quick sale here and there if I need some $$. I start all my auctions at 69 cents, but I LIKE that number and I'm happy with the prices they bring. CAUTION: Do not attempt to do this unless you have a following, you WILL loose money!

I do have "show prices" and they are based on the cost of travel and lodging. I have been fortunate there, but it appears that I will now have to reformulate that cost due to gas prices.

Yes, they call me loco for a reason...

[lunamoonshadow]

I your siggy picture right now loco! They all look so happy dancing there!

[Carolyn M]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

Carolyn, what do you mean, "Sell them as a studio lot?"

Sorry, that was poor wording. I sell a larger number of beads as a studio clearout when I have a huge number of experimentals or one of a kind beads cluttering up my studio . I have a few sets up now as a set clearout. They are not first quality beads as far as design IMO, so I start them low.

Many buyers are looking for bargains and like to get large numbers of beads with one purchase. They will search ebay looking for these. I know this because they are never my 'regulars' who buy these clearouts.

[loudgirl]

Carolyn, Thats very good advice! Sometimes I just surf eBay to see how sellers are doing. I see alot of "nice looking" beads that don't even get a bid and has started out at low bid price. So maybe they have done what you just suggested and started out with second rate and now with nice beads cant sell? Sometimes though I just can't make sense of why things sell on eBay. By the time I get to sell on eBay I hope I have learned alot more about this subject. Thanks for all of your suggestions guys!! It certainly gives a newbie something to think about.

[ellyloo]

I agree with Dennis in that you want the consumer to WANT what you're selling.
Photographing, presentation, back story... it all goes into that. If you can transfer some of what you love about glass to the buyer....and get that gut reaction "I WANT!!" They'll pay it.

I also find, that if you put a bead on a head pin and on a simple cord or chain... you can then bump up the price WAY the heck more. People aren't even blinking when I tell them 50$ for a pendant on a chain.

[Dennis Brady]

Originally Posted by ellyloo

I agree with Dennis in that you want the consumer to WANT what you're selling.
Photographing, presentation, back story... it all goes into that. If you can transfer some of what you love about glass to the buyer....and get that gut reaction "I WANT!!" They'll pay it.

I also find, that if you put a bead on a head pin and on a simple cord or chain... you can then bump up the price WAY the heck more. People aren't even blinking when I tell them 50$ for a pendant on a chain.

You'll also find you'll sell more jewelry if you photograph someone wearing it then if you photograph it catalog style. This personalizes it and induces a prospective buyer to wonder what they'll look like wearing it.