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2012-03-29, 10:16pm
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Pancake Regulator question.
Good evening, all.
I am helping a friend get started in glass work and have a question.
(blind leading the blind, etc)
Equipment being purchased:
Pancake regulator with 1/2psi out.
(Reason, Called Nortel, Mr. Norton said pancake would be good
for Mega Minor)
Western Enterprises FA30 flash arrestor rated to 40 SCFH
with 5 PSIG drop.
Question:
Will the reduction in flow from the arrestor kill the 1/2 PSI
output from the pancake reg ??
(Surface mix torch so I understand that arrestors are not a
necessity, but it would make all concerned feel better)
Any and all help is appreciated.
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2012-03-30, 1:29am
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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Many torches like to see 5 psi on the propane side. The GTT Cricket will run on .5 psi, but why limit yourself! Assuming you are using propane as your fuel is not stated.
An acetylene welding regulator works well on a propane tank and is adjustable to the needed pressure.
Arrestors do not work with low pressures. In the image the red arrow is the arrestor with the system set for 5 psi output. Some use higher pressures, depending on need and manufacture recommendations.
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2012-03-30, 11:30am
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
Many torches like to see 5 psi on the propane side. The GTT Cricket will run on .5 psi, but why limit yourself!
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Thank you for responding.
The person I am helping purchased a Mega Minor.
I spoke with Mr. Peter Norton at Nortel and he said that a
pancake regulator would be a good choice for the Mega
Minor as it is designed to run off 1/2 psi Nat gas.
An adjustable single or two stage regulator is easily destroyed
if the T is not loosened prior to opening the tank valve, I am
limiting the number of steps required to make the system
operational while said person is getting comfortable using a
fuel/O2 torch and may upgrade him to an adjustable reg in
the future.
Since an arrestor is not feasible with the pancake we will
install a quick connect with reverse flow check valve for
a little more psychological security. (Negligible pressure drop)
Again, thank you for responding.
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2012-03-30, 12:31pm
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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The problem with the quick connect with the check valve is the same as a Flame arrestor, not enough pressure to operate the spring the "works" the check valve..... What you what is probable a "fire check" by Carlisle ...
http://carlislemachine.com/as_accessories/firecheck.php
Dale
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2012-03-30, 2:16pm
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
The problem with the quick connect with the check valve is the same as a Flame arrestor, not enough pressure to operate the spring the "works" the check valve..... What you what is probable a "fire check" by Carlisle ...
http://carlislemachine.com/as_accessories/firecheck.php
Dale |
Thank you for responding.
The Western QDB30 does not list a pressure drop in it's specs.
I put a call into them, will get proper specs on Monday when
Engineering is back from the weekend.
On my system I am running an adjustable reg @ 1 PSI (Using propylene,
keeping pressure low to avoid carbon build up per Nortel) with an FA30
and QBD30 inline and it seems to be fine at that setting.
I assume the line pressure gauge is displaying output pressure from the
regulator, is that assumption incorrect ?
Once again, thanks.
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2012-03-30, 3:11pm
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Glass Hive Kiln Tech.
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Join Date: Jun 23, 2007
Location: Toledo, OR
Posts: 907
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I think it is not a pressure drop due to the arrestor, it is that the 1/2 psi is not enough pressure to push the spring in the arrestor itself.
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2012-03-30, 3:34pm
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsGlass
I think it is not a pressure drop due to the arrestor,
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As per Western Enterprises specifications, the FA30 drops 5 PSIG. 
Anything that restricts the flow of gas causes the pressure on the
output side to drop.
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2012-03-30, 7:25pm
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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2012-03-30, 11:54pm
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
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(scratching head)
I'm trying to figure out how instructions for the Nortel Midrange
are applicable to a pancake regulator.  
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2012-03-31, 1:47am
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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Recommend pressure setting for fuel/oxygen......
_______________________
Assuming you are using NG. If the pressure is at 11 WC a NG regulator is not needed. What is your NG pressure?
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2012-03-31, 1:56am
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
Recommend pressure setting for fuel/oxygen......
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I hate to be pedantic but I mentioned twice above that the
torch was a Mega Minor (bit smaller than a Midrange) and I had
spoken to Mr. Norton (the designer of the torch) regarding proper
operating pressures.
That bit aside, I do appreciate the input. 
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2012-08-03, 4:42am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Bennington, VT
Posts: 1,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Role
Thank you for responding.
The person I am helping purchased a Mega Minor.
I spoke with Mr. Peter Norton at Nortel and he said that a
pancake regulator would be a good choice for the Mega
Minor as it is designed to run off 1/2 psi Nat gas.
An adjustable single or two stage regulator is easily destroyed
if the T is not loosened prior to opening the tank valve, I am
limiting the number of steps required to make the system
operational while said person is getting comfortable using a
fuel/O2 torch and may upgrade him to an adjustable reg in
the future.
Since an arrestor is not feasible with the pancake we will
install a quick connect with reverse flow check valve for
a little more psychological security. (Negligible pressure drop)
Again, thank you for responding.
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if the person you built this for can't even remember to reduce the pressure at the reg before opening the valve for the day, then he/she should not be using a torch.....shouldn't even be around a torch.
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2012-08-03, 6:45am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istandalone24/7
if the person you built this for can't even remember to reduce the pressure at the reg before opening the valve for the day, then he/she should not be using a torch.....shouldn't even be around a torch.
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Not so.... Lots of people, once they set adjustable regulator pressure will never touch adjustment again.... YES proper procedure says bleed off regulator and release pressure on diaphragm each time you shut down... It's not the end of the world if you do not, it just **may** end the life of the regulator though....
Besides the subject at hand is a non adjustable "pancake" regulator and not a welding style adjustable regulator...
Dale
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