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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

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  #1  
Old 2009-11-06, 7:56am
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Default Oxygen blows out flame

I just graduated, to a Cricket Torch, and am having a lot of problems. I am far away, from any other Lampworkers, so have been teaching myself. My first tries, on lighting my new torch, the oxygen keep blowing out my flame. I had to really turn up the propane, and then add oxygen. And I never did have the oxygen all the way open, because I was afraid, it would blow out the flame again. Another thing, is that when you warm up your concentrator, it runs at 5 psi, when I light the torch, it drops down to about 3. Should I be turning this up? So many questions here. And I did burn a couple of beads. I run my propane, at 5 on the guage, like the instructions, said, that came with my new cricket. On the second try to light the torch, I must not have had the oxygen knob completely shut, because it made that POP. Now I am scared to death to try it again. Almost want to go back to my Hothead.
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Old 2009-11-06, 8:02am
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Light your propane and then slowly add your oxygen , That way you don't blow out the flame. Slowly add the oxygen, till the knob on the oxycon goes to just at the 5.
Hope this helps.
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Old 2009-11-06, 8:17am
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When warming up concentrator, do it with oxygen valve on torch OPEN... Concentrator should run at 4.5 to 5 LPM all the time...

Only close valve on torch to light propane, once propane is ignited open oxygen to its fullest ....Adjust flame with propane....

Dale
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Old 2009-11-06, 9:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
When warming up concentrator, do it with oxygen valve on torch OPEN... Concentrator should run at 4.5 to 5 LPM all the time...

Only close valve on torch to light propane, once propane is ignited open oxygen to its fullest ....Adjust flame with propane....

Dale
Concentrator should BE SET at 4.5 to 5 lpm all the time, but it will run lower at times if you are working with a smaller flame. The ball drops when you dial back the oxygen - as long as it is above 0, it is fine.

I would also suggest that you set the propane to about 8 psi - it will help keep your propane from fluctuating as they sometimes do when you set the regulator that low.
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Old 2009-11-06, 11:21am
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The flow meter with the little ball measures LPM. The psi is preset in the machine and you don't set that.

When you get ready to start up, open the oxygen valve on your torch all the way and turn on your oxygen concentrator. Set it to 4.5-5 LPM (line up the middle of the ball to the line on the guage). Let it run for about five to ten minutes to warm up and reach its good purity level.

While the machine is warming up, and with the propane valve shut on your torch, open the propane valve on your tank and set your propane regulator to between 5-10 psi. Then, go to your torch and close the oxygen valve. Normally, you want to leave the oxygen valve open while your machine is running, but you can close it breifly for this.

Next, slowly open the propane valve and light it. Adjust the yellow flame to be about 6" long, or so. Then, slowly open the oxygen valve back up. Your flame should turn from yellow to blue. Look at the little candles that are coming out of the face of the torch and adjust them so you have a neutral flame - candles (not the whole flame, just those little jets) about 3/8" long with 1-2mm yellow/white tips on the end is typical for a neutral soft glass flame.
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Old 2009-11-06, 11:24am
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oK, lots of things to consider here. Also, if the tank is 1/4 full, would that make a difference? Does a full tank behave different, and do you make adjustments on the propane tank psi, for different levels? Also, if you completely run your tank empty, is that dangerous?
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Old 2009-11-06, 11:26am
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If you follow my directions, and the flame is still blown out, then let your machine warm up some more (with the oxygen valve open) before trying to light up, again. Then, try again - making sure that you are opening up the valves slowly. If the machine has been running for longer than 10 minutes and you are opening the valves up slowly, and the flame still blows out, then it could be that your machine is putting out a low concentration of oxygen and is mostly pushing air, which will blow out a propane flame.

Hopefully, though, letting it warm up enough will do the trick. Good luck!
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Old 2009-11-06, 11:32am
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oK, lots of things to consider here. Also, if the tank is 1/4 full, would that make a difference? Does a full tank behave different, and do you make adjustments on the propane tank psi, for different levels? Also, if you completely run your tank empty, is that dangerous?
Your tank level really won't make a difference when it comes to lighting your torch - unless, of course, it is empty.

You do want to try and keep from running it empty, as sometimes that can cause a pressure drop that could possibly lead to a flashback (very rare, but I have heard of it happening). Typically, though, your flame just dies out when you run out of propane.
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Old 2009-11-06, 11:33am
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ok, Thank you so very much. At this point, I am afraid, but then I was nervous, when I first started using the Hothead also. I guess I just have to do it, experiment, and get confortable.
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Old 2009-11-06, 11:37am
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If despite the very good advice above your flame still gets blown out, it may be that you have air in your oxygen pipe. That could come either from a leak somewhere in the system (although it would have to be a big one to blow the flame out totally), or from a faulty concentrator that does not concentrate enough.
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Old 2009-11-07, 7:41am
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Well, I did have it going for about an hour the other day, yet, I am still afraid, to light it, when I am home alone. So today, I will try again, as I am not home alone. This is so silly, to be afraid, yet I really did not like that POP sound. Wondering what the worst would be, if it was a louder POP?
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Old 2009-11-07, 8:34am
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If you have the oxygen valve on the torch open when you introduce the propane, it's going to pop when you light it. If you have the oxygen valve closed when you open the propane and light it, and it pops loudly, you could have a leak in your torch. Was your oxygen valve open when you lit the propane?
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Old 2009-11-07, 9:19am
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Yes, I think I did not have it fully shut off, still open just a little. It was a little POP, but it sure scared me. Today I will try to light it up again.
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Old 2009-11-07, 9:47am
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OK, all, Now I might have another problem. The man at the welding supply sold me a R grade set of hoses? This this going to be a major problem, instaed of the T grade? Gosh so much to worry about. I already have the hoses connected. Is this dangerous?
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Old 2009-11-07, 10:10am
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It's not immediately dangerous. They'll just wear out a lot faster than the T-grade. Get the T-grade when you can, but it is probable safe to use what you have for right now.
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Old 2009-11-08, 7:55am
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ok, that relieves a lot of my worries. He said, they don't even have T grade. I will order some T grade next time, now that I do not have to worry about any danger.
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Old 2009-11-10, 7:05am
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Default Doing Great Now

Thanks to all the help I received about how to adjust my torch, I am
doing great now. Here are a couple of pictures, of my new Torch.
I am so happy with it now. You can make the flame so pinpoint, that I can even use my shorts up, holding them in my hand. You can see some shorts,
on the table below the torch. The Red Ones!

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Old 2009-11-14, 9:41am
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If you follow Kimberly (kbinkster)'s directions your torch will run LIKE A DREAM. She's awesome & honestly, she's got the inside hotline on how the cricket runs the absolute bestest . I've been reading & following every single one of her posts since I got my cricket (which, I wish I had more time/hours on, but... I don't ...) & it's just PERFECTION & it's all from reading & FOLLOWING her advice. She ROCKS.
Thanks Kim!!!
~luna
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Old 2009-11-14, 11:34am
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yes, your right, thank goodness, for all the helpful people here on Lampwork Etc.
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Old 2009-12-31, 5:50pm
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I second that emotion! I've been frustrated lately with the same problem. Usually in winter (our cold and rainy season), my Unlimited M10 starts doing this (blowing out the flame), and I figured it was toast, or was sensitive to the weather. My studio is in the unheated garage so I'm pretty much at the mercy of the weather.

I read all the threads on this issue, and Kimberly's advice worked! I think what I changed mostly was my propane pressure - it was up around 15, I think, so I turned it down and I had no issues at all today. While the extra hot flame is nice, I was not looking forward to taking my oxy cylinder in to exchange all the time.

Thanks you guys! Happy New Year!
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Old 2010-01-01, 12:44am
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WEll, I have had my new cricket torch for awhile now. And I DO know that the humidity, in Florida is so intense. That it effects my oxy con, and even my pre dipped mandrels. They will go soft over night, and crack and break, just because of the humidity. I have even had Mold grown on madrels, that are a few days old.(predipped). Once they dry, then, they seem to suck up moisture. So I can not pre dip to many rods, in this climate
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Old 2010-01-03, 1:26pm
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I'm in FL too, but I have never had a problem with my concentrator or generator because I run them near every day. But the flaky mandrels, yeah I know what you mean.
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Old 2010-01-14, 9:39pm
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Well, after about a week of nearly carefree torching and no changes to my setup, I'm having this problem again, even with the propane pressure turned way down almost to nothing. It's very strange. I got so ticked at one point that I started tapping on my propane regulator dial, and lo and behold the flame changed. Could it be a bad regulator? Does this happen often? Even tapping on the propane tank changed the flame to add more propane. This doesn't seem right.

The problem comes and goes, and just barely turning the propane pressure down avoids blowing the flame completely out.

I do note that from time to time the flame does seem to change a bit (the yellow increases and then gradually subsides a little) as the concentrator "breathes".

Have I reached the end of my concentrator's life expectancy? Is there some maintenance I should have done? All I'm trying to do is run a Minor with my Unlimited 5LPM machine.
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Old 2010-01-14, 10:00pm
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sounds like you need a new regulator.
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Old 2010-01-14, 11:03pm
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Hmmm, that would be easier to remedy than a bad oxycon, for sure.
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Old 2010-01-15, 2:00am
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I wonder if the regulator could be repaired. What brand is it?

If you'd like to borrow a regulator and let me play with yours, I could tell you if you need a new one. If you would like to specify a neutral location, we could make the exchange sometime this weekend. (If you are in the Cupertino / San Jose area on Friday, we might be able to meet then, but I can't leave the area on that day.)
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Old 2010-01-17, 5:19pm
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Thanks for the offer - I'll PM you. I read on other threads that they can be repaired. It's a Victor SR7B. I also read that it could be the propane too (something about the vapor and temperature combination).
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Old 2010-01-17, 10:01pm
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Patty: I found out a really strange thing about propane tanks. Is this an old tank. Is it brand new? Is it an exchange? I learned the hard way. You must have a good, new tank, hopefully, it is a propane tank prob. Have you turned the handle on your regulator, to the left, every time, you get done torching? Release the pressure? If you open your tank, and have full pressure, it will ruin your regulator. I always turn my regulator knob to the left, and then when I open my propane the next day, I bring my pressure up, where I need it. My way of saying things is not the most technical. If you have opened your propane tank, when you regulator, was at the same setting, as when you were done torching, YES, you may have ruined you regulator.
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  #29  
Old 2010-01-17, 11:43pm
Patty Lakinsmith's Avatar
Patty Lakinsmith Patty Lakinsmith is offline
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Hey Nell - thanks for the reply. It's a "new" (full) tank of gas, but can't recall where we got it filled. The exchange ones have proved problematic before, and if I'm on top of my game I set the empty ones out by our big propane tank for the delivery guys to fill.

I have also seen this advice in another thread - about turning the regulator down after bleeding the hose following a torching session, but I didn't know I was supposed to do this. I had this irregular flame problem a long while back (like last winter) and it solved itself and only since the latest tank of propane flared up (so to speak) again. It's not a predictable/repeatable problem, so, it's hard to isolate the cause. Tomorrow I'm going to get a new propane tank and try that, and if it doesn't work I'm gonna take Deanza Art Club up on his kind offer to loan me a new regulator while he troubleshoots mine.

Sure enough if I've ruined the regulator I will know to treat the next one better.

Thanks again.
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Santa Cruz Mountains, CA


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  #30  
Old 2010-01-18, 11:48pm
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Patty Lakinsmith Patty Lakinsmith is offline
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Thought I'd post an update on my torching today. Before swapping regulators, I changed out the propane tank, and had 2 hours of great torching. Just as I was composing the LE post in my head that would declare the problem solved, it happened again. 2 hours into the session. Same deal - the yellow candles grow (BTW, the ball on my 5L oxycon doesn't drop when this happens), then it blows itself out, and I have to relight the torch, usually by turning down the O2 or turning down the propane pressure. This happened several times, and then I was good for another hour or so, and then toward the end it happened some more.

I really don't know what to think. This is a full propane tank, while the other one was about 1/3 full or so. I figured the tank itself may have been bad, but now I just don't know. I guess a bad regulator could act squirrely like this, right?

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Santa Cruz Mountains, CA


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