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2013-01-14, 12:29pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2011
Location: 6 month in Ontario and 6 month in either Michigan or Florida
Posts: 147
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getting a neutral flame out of bravo torch?
My husband got me a bravo torch for xmas so I need to send lynx in for repairs. I can't seem to be abel to get a neutral flame on it. If someone can post pics of what neutral flame looks like on a bravo it would be great. I have only been using this torch for 6 days and about 80 hours, burned through 6 lbs of clio only to get mud every time. On my lynx no brainer for any silver glass but this bravo torch is killing supply of silver glass and every bead is the color of mud going in the kiln and coming out.
If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Micki
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2013-01-14, 12:58pm
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Now part of the Dark Side
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A couple of questions, are you on LP or natural gas?
On LP a neutral flame will have yellow tips at the end of the candles and they will be fairly crisp. The other way I like to tell is to turn the oxy down, at the torch, and begin turning it up until the blue part of the secondary flame, not the candles, reaches it's densest. This gives a neutral flame that is soft.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-01-14, 1:06pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 11, 2011
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Here's a video link that may help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhxgj6u2KQ
Not specifically for the bravo, but posted by Double Helix.
Try reducing your propane pressure
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2013-01-14, 4:26pm
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Senior Member
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Sorry forgot to mention I am on propane, with m20 oxycon
Micki
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2013-01-14, 5:12pm
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Now part of the Dark Side
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If you are on an oxy con try backing off on your propane. Here is a video of the Beta torch, the precursor to the Alpha, center fire on the Bravo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIi6gc249b4
I'm not a soft glass person, but usually muddy colors are from 1.) working in a reducing flame or 2.) working the color too hot. Both can be solved by working further back in the flame.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-01-14, 5:25pm
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I'm meeeeelting
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Are you using the outer fire or just the inner? An M-20 with outerfire probably wouldn't be enough propane to get a neutral flame. With inner, I would think it'd be fine, but try dialing it down a bit. Also, what's your propane pressure set at? Try turning it down a bit at the regulator and see if that helps.
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Etsy:
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2013-01-14, 5:35pm
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Now part of the Dark Side
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The flame in the video is very close to neutral, just a touch on the oxidizing side. When in doubt I error on the oxidizing side. An M20 won't run a very big outer fire, you could get enough extra heat to melt 12mm fod faster but that is about it. Wide open the Bravo uses 31 LPM. An M20 is 10 LPM, you will have plenty for the center fire.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-01-14, 9:18pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
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Micki, give Bethlehem a call. It's not you. Some of its Alpha and Bravo torches do not yield a neutral flame. PM me if you need the number and contact person to talk to.
And please stop using reducing silver glass until you get that fixed!
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Hayley
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2013-01-15, 7:52pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2011
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Thanks Hayley, I have stopped using all my silver glass. I hate to ask questions and love to figure things out. Its gotta be OCD my husband laughs at my determination but keeps encouraging me. I could sit at a torch for 14 -16 hours at a time a forget to eat or even bathroom breaks. I know there is a learning curve to all torches but with my lynx I think it was less than 6 days before I could make my silver glass purr. So I am totally frustrated and finally decided to get help on this forum. I will give all your suggstions a try and if it doesn't work I will call Bethlehem.
Thank you so much for trying to assist me in this new hiccup in my life.
Micki
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2013-01-15, 8:04pm
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Lampworkaholic!
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6 lbs. of Clio. 
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2013-01-16, 10:20am
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pardon my newbness..but if you can't get a neutral flame...can't you just crank up the oxy a bit so as not to reduce your silver glass?
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now i've got a Mirage
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2013-01-16, 12:46pm
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I have an Beth Alpha - the center of your Bravo. I find that it tends to run reducing relative to other small Nortel and GTT torches I've used.
The recommended pressures for the Alpha and the Bravo are 2 psi gas and 8 psi oxy - but I tend to run 10-15 psi oxy on the Alpha and suspect the Bravo might use more. I'm able to run the Alpha on an oxy con but it is reducing with anything but very short candles. I can't see how it would be possible to run the outer fire with only one M-20 for any length of time and keep it neutral - even with a holding tank. It really needs several oxy cons or tanked oxygen to run the way it's intended to.
You may also know that an oxy con has an optimum pressure setting - on mine it's around 9 psi. Increasing the pressure beyond that point causes the oxygen purity to drop as the unit tries to push more air through faster. In this state the sieve beds aren't as efficient and less of the nitrogen and other gases in the air get extracted causing the oxygen purity drop resulting in a reducing atmosphere in the torch.
As Haley suggested there may be some type of manufacturing defect in the torch that could be a problem. But before you ship it back to Bethlehem you may want to purchase some Glass Alchemy Amazon Night Boro Rod and use it to test your flame chemistry. Instructions are given here: http://www.glassalchemy.com/cart/Set...-Neutral-Flame
Using this method of testing your flame chemistry takes the guesswork out of the process and you can use the rod over and over saving all that nice silver glass.
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2013-01-17, 1:32pm
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Senior Member
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For now it looks like the oxycon is not producing any oxygen, so its going back for repairs it took over 18 min to warm Ivory to a dull red, and it didn't even ball up. The lynx has also been sent it for hose repair. I get to sit and do nothing for at least a few weeks. I have no patience.
Micki
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2013-01-17, 4:36pm
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Now part of the Dark Side
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One of the reasons I use tanked oxy, that and I only have 100 Amp electrical service.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-01-22, 12:17am
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one day at a time
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonharper
One of the reasons I use tanked oxy, that and I only have 100 Amp electrical service.
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Like me, ha! Is yours fuses??
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You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
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2013-01-22, 4:36am
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Now part of the Dark Side
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No, I do have a breaker panel but...
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-01-22, 9:08am
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
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Concentrators pull around 5-6 amps.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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2013-01-22, 4:32pm
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Now part of the Dark Side
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And if you need 4 that's over 20 and requires 2 new circuits. My breaker panel is full, as is my kiln is on the same circuit as the whole house vac. Fortunately it's not a high use item. 
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-01-22, 6:06pm
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
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Shut everything else off and use extension cords. Prioritize!
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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