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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2013-11-23, 4:10pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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Striking Amber Purples in the kiln
I am having problems with stiking AP's in the kiln. So far I have been flame striking only and got a nice variety of colours. Now I put them in the kiln and almost all the AP turned purple - gone are the yellows and reds. I got Brent Grabers DVD's and used his programming (ramp up to 1075 hold 11 hours, go to 960 hold 30 min and turn off). That did not work for me - all colours turned purple or murky. After some research I found a program that said: ramp to 1225 - hold 10 min - down to 1050 - hold 2 hours - ramp down 60° per hour to 960° and hold for 2 hours - then turn off. That did not work for me. Again the colours turned purple. What am I doing wrong??????? I would like to get those awesome colours I see in Brents work, but honestly, my work looks way better before I put it in the kiln. I have a Paragon SC-2.
Can someone please tell me what to do - this time I need help - desperately.
Also, I made some jelly fish with a double AP cap and they did not change/strike at all. All the encased work did not change colours.
What programing are you guys using to strike AP's nicely?
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-23, 4:33pm
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Now part of the Dark Side
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Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 966
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This is just my $0.02. Work the AP or DAP at temperatures where it turns clear, use lots of oxy. My strike cycle is at 1125 for 30 minutes.
This is what works for me.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-11-23, 4:42pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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I am working my AP's super hot with lots of oxy and I keep it super hot for a long time even after working it. All the haze is burned off and it turned clear. Then I let it cool until all the glow is gone and usually strike it in the flame. And it looks wonderful - lots of different colours. But when I put it in the kiln all the colours turn purple - no more yellow - no more reds and no more variations - everything is just purple . . . frustrating
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-23, 7:06pm
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kinda torching....
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Join Date: Mar 26, 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 301
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Could it be your kiln itself? I've read somewhere that some kilns have reductive environments or some such.
What happens if you'd anneal as you would plain clear? No higher then 1050f?
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Jeremy To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2013-11-23, 7:09pm
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kinda torching....
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Join Date: Mar 26, 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 301
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Or maybe skip the flame striking on 3 samples, run one on kiln strike schedule 1 and the other sample on kiln strike schedule 2. And the last one or a regular anneal cycle at 1050F
Might all be worth a try to see what color effects might happen.
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2013-11-23, 7:13pm
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kinda torching....
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Join Date: Mar 26, 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 301
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Only other things I could think of is to change up the schedules, run the first at temp for an hour instead of 11. Or just ramp up to temp for the other schedule with no hold and fo straight back to 1050
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2013-11-23, 7:18pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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if I run it on a normal annealing (1050°) nothing much changes. I was always under the impression, that you can get AP's more vibrant by kiln striking, thats what I was hoping for anyways. Never expected it to go all purple . .
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-23, 7:22pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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not hazy or dirty as in reduction - just purple (actually not a bad purple). But I want to keep my yellows and reds - just get more intense.
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-23, 7:35pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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just a sample bead - left is befor the kiln - right is how it came out. Gone is the yellow
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-24, 12:18am
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kinda torching....
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Join Date: Mar 26, 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 301
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I see what you mean, gorgeous both ways though! If you really want the yellow then just anneal and forego the kiln striking then maybe?
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2013-11-24, 12:19am
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kinda torching....
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Join Date: Mar 26, 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 301
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Not that I even know what colors I have, but I've never gotten a yellow like that out of any of the AP family shorts I have.. Wonder if its from how I'm working it, or my oxycon?
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2013-11-24, 12:56am
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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it is easy to get the yellows, just AP thinly over white and don't strike it too much. Here are 2 examples of just AP over white and only flame striking
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-24, 3:52am
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Now part of the Dark Side
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Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 966
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You are getting good colors flame striking. I think I'd just aneal at 1050. You could try, a short strike cycle at 1075 or 1100 for 15 minutes and vary from there. I wish this was an exact science, bit it's not.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-11-24, 5:12pm
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
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Brent's 11 strike cycle is probably his "garage" segment, though I forget. Typically I set my controller for 1100 for 1 hour to strike A/P. The key is the background. You get the warm yellows, pinks and reds with a white background. Your results will vary & the thickness of the amber purple will affect how your colors strike. I suggest a base of regular A/P with DAP or other colors added as accents.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2013-11-24, 5:14pm
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
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Or you can just flame-strike as suggested by others Both are very valid.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2013-11-24, 10:09pm
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Flamewoman
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Join Date: Jan 12, 2007
Location: California
Posts: 985
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Bernhard I noticed your new avatar, is that a close up of some of your fume?
It looks like it, lovely.
I'm glad you keep your rat, he's just not your ratatar anymore.
sometimes when people change their avatar, I don't know who they
are anymore.
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Mary K
GTT Sidewinder & 3 Regalias
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You cannot do a kindness too soon, for you never
know how soon it will be too late.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. PLEASE like my page!
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2013-11-24, 10:29pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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Yes, Mary it is a closeup of my fume. Hope it caused no confusion. I thought some colour might be nice
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-25, 7:15pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 06, 2005
Location: Austin - Texas
Posts: 2,708
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That is an awful high temp to strike att for the amber purples. I would go down to 1100 and then experiment by increasing the strike temp by 25 degrees until you find the sweet spot. It takes time, but once you get it dialed in then you will be able to reproduce your results. Good Luck!
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Eric
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. ---- Albert Einstein
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2013-11-25, 9:49pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 13, 2012
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 172
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Is that sample pendant(the purple one) encased in clear or is it just straight AP? Coating in clear can do wonders for color variations.
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2013-11-26, 9:38am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
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That's a very long hold time for amber purple. I strike them at 1200 for 20 minutes.
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2013-11-26, 12:52pm
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Superkitty
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Posts: 2,897
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Cosmo, do you bring them up to 1200 for 20 minutes and then back down to 1050 and hold for an hour to anneal?
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Deb
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2013-11-26, 1:19pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2006
Location: west
Posts: 811
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I just "rethunk" my first post and removed it because I was delirious - LOL -
The last time I annealed amber purple, I was having issues getting it to bring out purples - was staying amber and I read on here somewhere to ramp up to 1150 for approx. 15 - 20 minutes, then back down to 1050 for an hour. If I recall, I ended up doing that twice to get the deep colors I wanted, But I was going for more red/purple than yellow. here's what I ended up with - hard to see the amber on the edges because of the black background but there's quite a bit of it - fading into red, then purple and blue.
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2013-11-26, 6:29pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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nice to see Cosmo and e.mort in here - thank you for your advice. I have learned so much from you guys over the years - I am still an admirer.
Cosmo, you have been missed for a long time - just don't sell your torch - we want to see more of your work.
Nevadaglass, those flowers are stunning. Isn't it funny, you have problems getting the purples and I have problems getting way too much purple. Maybe it is a kiln thing. I am wondering if the temp reading of my kiln is out by a few degree. My next batch will be 1075 for an hour, down to 950 hold 2 hours. I'll keep you posted on the outcome
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-26, 8:59pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2006
Location: west
Posts: 811
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I used a paragon bluebird for the flowers
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2013-11-26, 9:43pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 13, 2012
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 172
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Is it even possible to "strike" AP into yellows without it being layered over another color?
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2013-11-26, 10:28pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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only ever got the yellows over white
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-27, 10:12pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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Look how it came out of the kiln - I am getting closer. The colours are starting to come out good - still a little on the hot side. Next time I will drop my temp even more. But I am smiling
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2013-11-27, 11:14pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 1,958
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That heart with the glitter is beautiful.
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2013-11-28, 3:55am
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 16, 2013
Posts: 48
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Thanks for the thread Bernhard. It seems there is possibly more than just heat involved with striking. Love the last batch from the kiln btw.
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2013-11-28, 8:46am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jan 10, 2013
Posts: 13
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I use the amber-purple family quite often and if I want a little more yellows and blues out of it I will keep my flame as neutral as possible, and work it hot, keeping it hot so as not allow it to cool enough to flame strike, then I'll put it in the kiln to anneal. If it is too amber I'll just leave it in the kiln for another normal cycle, which never goes above 1050, but generally holds 1050 for 45 min to an hour.
Just bringing it back down to room temp and back up to 1050 seems to give the APs a slight strike without washing it out completely in purple as you would bringing it up to 1150 or 1200 for a normal kiln strike in my experience.
Those last few came out beautiful.
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