oxygen safety

meitali · #1 2005-10-08, 4:13am

hi everyone!

i will soon be moving on to a gas+oxygen torch!

not because i don't like my HH, i do, but the propane here is extremely expensive , and doesn not come in tanks, only small bottles that cost 7 $ and last for merely 3 hours, with the pressure dropping, which drives me crazy. it's too expensive and difficult to work this way.

so a good friend is lending me a torch (i don't know if you are here reading this and if it's ok to say who you are, but anyway- thaaaaanks!!!), i will have a small butane tank (i'd rather have that than start making connections to the butane tanks of the appartment, since it's rented), and i still need... oxygen.

now, i am on a waiting list for a concentrator, but it will take time before i get it because there are none available at the moment at my suppliers' supplier, plus the shipping to israel... and on top of that, it's really expensive, and i already spent half of the what it costs on a new digital camera.

i know i talk too much, but i gave all this info just in case any of you reaches a different conclusion than mine, that might be usefull.

my conclusion- i will have to use an oxygen tank.

the problem- this is a 1 room appartment, the bedroom is also the living room, and my work area, and the kitchen... and it's a very small room.

i am ok with the space, but i am extremely concerned about safety, especially now that the winter is coming- i can have all windows open while i work at the torch, but at night it will all be closed, the room will be heated (winter in jerusalem is cold, and i have several external walls...), and all this, while having a gas tank and an oxygen tank inside...

so, you can see why i am worried.

any info, suggestion, warning, or whatever, that you may have concerning this will be EXTREMELY WELCOME!!!!

i don't want to do anything before i know it's completely safe to do it.

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR INPUT!!!

meital

MikeAurelius · #2 2005-10-08, 6:46am

Oxygen, by itself is not hazardous. It is a accelerant, meaning that it causes fuels to burn hotter.

There is no reason that I see why you cannot have an oxygen tank in an apartment, however, I would talk with your building manager FIRST and discuss with him/her what you are planning on doing - be sure you tell him/her that you will have a torch, that you are working with hot glass, etc. Abide by what the manager says.

Basic oxygen tank safety isn't all that complex. When the tank is not in use, the cover should be screwed onto the tank to protect the valve. The tank can either stand on end or lay down on its side, but either way, absolutely MUST be held in place with either a chain or some fashion of restraint to keep it from tipping or rolling.

Dwaine Scum · #3 2005-10-08, 7:20am

It depends on what kind of oxygen tank you are using, a pressureized cell, or Liquid dewar. Oxygen itself is safe, and a pressurized cell will not vent from pressure, now, a liquid dewar will vent when it has too much pressure, it is completely harmless, but VERY loud, (it will definatly scare your neighbors), now you do want to be careful with the propane though, burning propane does create carbon monoxide, so make sure when you have the flame going you have adaquate ventilation, if you are using a torch like a Midrange minor, or beth pirahana, it along with your kiln will keep you warm (assuming you are working boro) But I would check with your landlord, and just as a courtsy tell your neighbors, assure them of the saftey, so they don't think you are a terrorist making explosives (trust me, it has happened before :-/) and one other thing I almost learned the hard way, don't use any oil basied lubricants around the oxygen (like Wd-40, 4 in one oil) for sticky valves, or hose connections, Oil and oxygen can combust when combines. I learned from an old professional torchman, use dishwashing soap for lube (attaching your hoses, or lubing a sticky valve). Also what ever torch you decide to go with, will more than likely be happy to assist you on saftey issues. One other thing too, the company I get oxygen from, will not deliver any oxygen in cylenders or liquid, unless you have flash back arrestors (supressors) its a valve that prevents flames from flowing back into the tank... Just a few points to mull over, I hope the info helps. Also, congrats on moving up! I think you will be much happier with the oxy propane switch

Dale M. · #4 2005-10-08, 9:41am

One must be careful of "dish washing soaps" they may contain small amounts oils. If connection or valve will not "seal" it is defective and no amount of or types of lubrication or sealants is going to fix problem safely... A bad seal on connection signals parts need to be replaces with ones that work properly.

"Old time" torchman information can be dangerous.....

Dale M.

Dwaine Scum · #5 2005-10-08, 9:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

One must be careful of "dish washing soaps" they may contain small amounts oils. If connection or valve will not "seal" it is defective and no amount of or types of lubrication or sealants is going to fix problem safely... A bad seal on connection signals parts need to be replaces with ones that work properly.

"Old time" torchman information can be dangerous.....

Dale M.

lol kinda a funny story, I had a carslie, that had a sticky valve, so I had it broken down, and I reached for the WD-40, and everyone was like WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING!!!! thats when he pulled out som lemon joy, and gave me a little dab on the threads, and ti works like a champ to this day... but I wont do it anymore , I never thouhgt of Oils in soaps... Plus with Carslile, they told me replacment kits for the valves are only $15. thats not bad at all

Nanette Marie · #6 2005-10-08, 11:23am

Okay, am I missing something: "while having a gas tank and an oxygen tank inside"?? Plus, this is a "rented apartment"? Sorry, but I think you need to find some studio space. I do not recommend torching of any kind in a rented apartment. Not only do you have the issues of gas storage, but no homeowners insurance, and the place doesn't even belong to you and you've got neighbors right on the other side of the wall. It's one thing to put yourself at risk but totally unacceptable to put unsuspecting neighbors at risk too. If I were the apartment manager or property owner and I found out what you were up to I would evict you immediately.
Sorry to be such a downer, but this "craft" can be a very dangerous one unless all safety precautions are taken and even then, accidents do happen; that's why they're called accidents.
Please re-think your options here, and consider the risk you are facing by torching in an apartment.

meitali · #7 2005-10-08, 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanette Marie

Okay, am I missing something: "while having a gas tank and an oxygen tank inside"?? Plus, this is a "rented apartment"? Sorry, but I think you need to find some studio space. I do not recommend torching of any kind in a rented apartment. Not only do you have the issues of gas storage, but no homeowners insurance, and the place doesn't even belong to you and you've got neighbors right on the other side of the wall. It's one thing to put yourself at risk but totally unacceptable to put unsuspecting neighbors at risk too. If I were the apartment manager or property owner and I found out what you were up to I would evict you immediately.
Sorry to be such a downer, but this "craft" can be a very dangerous one unless all safety precautions are taken and even then, accidents do happen; that's why they're called accidents.
Please re-think your options here, and consider the risk you are facing by torching in an apartment.

thanks, but i am not planning on putting anyone at risk, not me, not anyone else.

rethinking my options? it's exactly what i am doing here. i want to make sure that what i do is completely safe, and nothing harmful can happen. if i am not 101% sure, i won't do it.

i didn't even go yet to pick up the torch from my friend, i don't see the need to do so while i still cannot ensure complete safety.

Nanette Marie · #8 2005-10-08, 1:14pm

Well, I'm glad that you are rethinking your options, but I really recommend that you don't do this in an apartment. The welding shop I frequent has pictures of what can happen that they show to anybody that wants to do something they don't recommend. Those pictures are really scary. Please, please be careful.

suzanne · #9 2005-10-08, 1:18pm

sweety check out ebay.de, there are a lot of concentrators for sale there ( search for konzi) . I used the tanked oxy too, and I hated it, I was scared of it and was glad to switch to a concentrator, so if you can afford one, get one

. If not, make sure your oxy sits outside ( at least, in the netherlands its obligated to have it outside the home) and get proper new valves etc.

Its like Mike said, oxygen by itself is not dangerous, but you definetly want to take every single safety measure just to be sure
Suzanne

suzanne · #10 2005-10-08, 1:19pm

Forgot to mention... you do know that having oxy and gas in your house you are not insured if something might happen.

edit to add... read before you post Suzanne.. someone else just said that.. sorry

Nanette Marie · #11 2005-10-08, 3:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzanne

Forgot to mention... you do know that having oxy and gas in your house you are not insured if something might happen.

edit to add... read before you post Suzanne.. someone else just said that.. sorry

Hey Suzanne: You can NEVER say that too many times.

meitali · #12 2005-10-09, 5:12am

i know the best thing would be to connect the torch to the appartment's gas system, and have an oxycon.

the owners know i am torching in the appartment, they saw the hh themselves, now that i will switch i will invite them over to see it.

i cannot afford to rent studio space so i have to find a solution with what i have, that will still ensure safety.

i will have a gas man change the connection of the gas stove to be double, so i can hook up the torch to it, although i will need it to be "separable and rehookable", becuase otherwise the entrance to the kitchen will be constantly blocked by the hose, which is super dangerous. this way, i will only be limited to not cooking while i torch, which obviously is ok because you cannot do these 2 things at the same time

then i need the oxycon- my suppliers have it at 500 dollars, all included (i don't need to add shipping to that, which is quite expensive since it's not inside the us or europe...). i doubt it that i could get one for less than that, shipping included, and yet even this is quite a lot of money (although i won't have oxygen expenses in the future with the concentrator). the other problem concerning the concentrator, is that my suppliers have none at the moment, and when their suppliers finnaly have some, shipping overseas take time...

so i know this setup will be safest, but at the same time i am checking to see if i might have other options that would be just as safe and not as expensive, and are possible to have sooner.

if they're not completely safe, i just don't take them as actual options.