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2006-01-07, 6:43pm
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
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Propane regulator not on the tank?
Okay, I have a weird dilemma. We are finishing up plans for our studio, and it was suggested we put our propane on the roof. It won't be a problem to get it up there, and it's covered, so it will be safe. There is about 15 feet of clear space on all sides. No sources of flame or spark or anything.
However, I was wondering if it is possible (or advisable) to put a hard line on the propane attached directly to the tank, run the line indoors, and put a regulator there, so I can adjust and turn it off from inside the building. We can't put it outside on the ground like we had planned on doing originally, so I'm looking for options.
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2006-01-07, 7:16pm
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
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National Fire Prevention Association (NFPA) stipulates you can NOT bring in propane gas into building at a pressure in excess of 20 psi. So you WILL have to have regulator on tank to drop pressure down to acceptable level. My suggestion would be to put a 10psi regulator on tank and then using rigid piping bring gas down into torch room and use adjustable regulator at torch bench to set desired pressure... Also if it is acceptable why not just run torch as natural gas/ household pressure ( about 1/3 psi ) and all you will need is basic pancake (fixed pressure) regulator at tank.
Also have you checked with local fire officials about propane tank on roof. The may object to that location.
You can't even put tank outside on ground in metal, secured enclosure? Makes me wonder if roof location is going to be acceptable.
Is there a natural gas supply in building?
Here is a lot of good information about getting propane from tank to regulator and inside building...
http://ops.dot.gov/regs/small_lp/Chapter3.htm
Dale
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2006-01-08, 6:26am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
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Yeaaahhhh...I'm with Dale on this - I don't think propane on the roof is a very good idea.
Typically, if there is a fire and there are propane tanks nearby, a hose and crew are dedicated to keeping the tanks cool by a constant stream of water. If the tank is on the roof, it wouldn't be visible to the fire crew - would they even know it is there?, and the likelyhood of burnthrough on the roof engulfing the tank and creating an explosion is something I don't even want to think about.
IMO the tank should be along side the building in clear view -or- in an enclosure clearly marked (this is code requirement) so that the fire crews can easily see the tank and take the necessary measures to safeguard it and themselves.
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2006-01-08, 8:30am
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ManBearPig
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Well, there is natural gas in the building, but we'd need boosters to run the 10 Barracudas at enough pressure. Plus, with the price of natural gas, propane is a LOT cheaper.
Okay, so what's the best way to enclose it on the ground? The main thing I'm worried about is someone stealing it. The area of town our studio is in isn't the safest area. I don't know that anyone would want to steal a 100 lb propane tank, but I've seen them steal stranger stuff.
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2006-01-08, 12:06pm
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cosmo
Well, there is natural gas in the building, but we'd need boosters to run the 10 Barracudas at enough pressure. Plus, with the price of natural gas, propane is a LOT cheaper.
Okay, so what's the best way to enclose it on the ground? The main thing I'm worried about is someone stealing it. The area of town our studio is in isn't the safest area. I don't know that anyone would want to steal a 100 lb propane tank, but I've seen them steal stranger stuff.
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Large metal cage made with material like chain link fencing (have fence company make small enclosure) just large enough to contain tank, or get a heavy duty metal cabinet that is theft resistant, and has plenty of ventilation holes...
And yes put hazardous material warnings of fence or cabinet.
If you bolt tank to concrete slab and put fence type enclosure around it, its probably going to be safer than up on roof. You know kids prowl roofs at night, just look at all the graffiti on air ducts. What better fun than to toss tank off roof at night ( AAARGH!!!)... And also consider how you are going to fill tank, its going to be a bear to lug tank up and down every few weeks...
Consider larger tank and have propane service come by and do "bolt down" install and contract them for "fill" service.... Make it easy on your self...
Dale
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2006-01-08, 4:43pm
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ManBearPig
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That sounds like a good plan.
Okay, here's another question...
What about storing liquid oxygen and propane together? I know the liquid tanks vent, and if the propane tank ever exploded or anything the oxygen would make it worse, but a 100 lb propane tank is going to do a lot of damage either way. We had planned on putting the oxygen in a storage area inside, but if we are putting the propane outside it would be more convenient to put them together.
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2006-01-08, 6:59pm
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cosmo
That sounds like a good plan.
Okay, here's another question...
What about storing liquid oxygen and propane together? I know the liquid tanks vent, and if the propane tank ever exploded or anything the oxygen would make it worse, but a 100 lb propane tank is going to do a lot of damage either way. We had planned on putting the oxygen in a storage area inside, but if we are putting the propane outside it would be more convenient to put them together.
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A venting oxygen tank is not a problem in a open space where it can rapidly dissipate. I'd be more worried about it inside.... Hence chain link fence enclosure.....
I don't know of any reason you can not store them together.... Look at a welding supply depot, there is a lot of different kinds of gases all stored right next to each other.... If it goes off, it does, having them 10-20 feet apart is probably not going to make a whole lot of difference...
Dale
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2006-01-09, 6:31am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dale M.
A venting oxygen tank is not a problem in a open space where it can rapidly dissipate. I'd be more worried about it inside.... Hence chain link fence enclosure.....
I don't know of any reason you can not store them together.... Look at a welding supply depot, there is a lot of different kinds of gases all stored right next to each other.... If it goes off, it does, having them 10-20 feet apart is probably not going to make a whole lot of difference...
Dale
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That's kind of what I was figuring.
The fire inspector is coming by today to take a look at everything before we get started anyways. At least now I know what to tell him we're planning on doing.
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2006-01-09, 6:44am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Actually, the liquid oxygen tank should go inside and be vented outside.
You do not want kids playing around with the liquid tank period - inside is the safest. Your welding supply house that will be supplying the liquid dewar can help you with the venting requirements, many times they have a specialist either on call or or staff that does this professionally.
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2006-01-12, 9:46am
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torch to ride
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Join Date: Jan 10, 2006
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did you ever look in to getting a Pera Liquid tank put in and have the O2 hard piped in ask your O2 company about it i have looked in to it but im still holding off .The smallest one i have seen is about the size of to dewar tanks and it can be put in side our out But it has to be on concreat and must has a filling spot that is all concreat also Peace Jeff
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2006-01-12, 9:55am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
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Turns out we found a local guy who does brick work on the side, and he's going to construct a small little building that will house both our propane and oxygen. It's going to have a chain link fence door on the front to keep people from messing with it.
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