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  #1  
Old 2013-11-28, 11:03am
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Hello Everyone,

I have been lurking here for a while now and decided to actually create an account today (yes on Thanksgiving lol).

I have never tried working with glass however it has been an interest of mine for years I just never took the leap. I have looked for classes in my local area and there are some but I have to drive an hour to the location and an hour home all for a 2 hour session. IMO that's too much travel. The courses are also expensive and offer 2h of practice time per day but again all that traveling.

I am looking to getting into making all sorts of glass pendants, jewelery, marbles, pipes, etc. My main drive is to work on making pipes and functional pieces of art. Maybe at some point I would make an all glass water fountain that would spray water into the air using a pump to circulate the water, possibilities are endless with glass from what I am seeing.

Currently I just want to get started with this as a hobby and hey if I can sell some of the things I make over the next few years to help fund the hobby great, if not that's great too. I am a website developer by trade but would love to work on glass, become good at it and use it as my retirement plan

NOTE: I am not looking to get rich or make a ton of money, I just love working with my hands. Some say it's kinda gay (as i am male) but I have done cross stiching, making friendship bracelets, etc. I like seeing things that I have made with my hands.

I know I want to do glass work but I have a few questions about the hobby/career.

1.) What would be a good torch I can pick up that will allow me to work with both soft glass and boro? I have been looking at some kits but they all seem to come with $300-500 torches. I don't mind dropping that coin but not knowing if I will start it and say hell I don't like this as I thought. There are also so many torches out there I would not want to buy one that would not work for soft glass but only boro, etc.

2.) I know that working with glass in the house is not a good idea due to poor ventilation so I was thinking about using the garage where I could have the bay door cracked using a few box fans and have the actual door open for the intake. It's going to be very cold in the winter months as this space is not heated. Are there any issues with the tools (torch, kiln, etc) that I should worry about when it comes to the colder months?

3.) Anyone on here local to the Bennington, VT area and mind me picking your brain, maybe paying you a bit of cash to come use your station for a few hours with you so that I could see if this is even something I wish to do prior to dropping a lot of coin on this hobby?

4.) Any particular kiln that I should look for when it comes to working with soft glass and boro glass? I don't want to go out and buy an expensive kiln to find out that I got the wrong one and it won't work for what I wish to do? Also I do not have any of the 220V plugs only 120V so I am wondering if there is a difference between the kilns that use the different power sources or if they will suffice as well.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 2013-11-28, 12:06pm
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NLC Beads NLC Beads is offline
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#3 is the best idea to start.

See if there's a studio within driving distance to try it before investing, if possible. Most of us got hooked within minutes. But I've heard some people tried and it just didn't work for them.
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  #3  
Old 2013-11-28, 12:33pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC Beads View Post
#3 is the best idea to start.

See if there's a studio within driving distance to try it before investing, if possible. Most of us got hooked within minutes. But I've heard some people tried and it just didn't work for them.
Yea I'm gonna have to see if I can find a local blower to spend some time with. All of the classes and companies are a few hrs away upstate or an hour into NY each way. I couldn't do that class tho as it gives you a week of practice time but 2h a day. I can't travel that far everyday with work, etc.

If anyone on here is local we should talk.
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  #4  
Old 2013-11-28, 1:02pm
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For what you describe that you want to do, I think a $300-500 torch sounds sort of intro level at best. I think your idea of trying before you build a studio is a very good one. This is not a cheap hobby.
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  #5  
Old 2013-11-28, 1:21pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Originally Posted by echeveria View Post
For what you describe that you want to do, I think a $300-500 torch sounds sort of intro level at best. I think your idea of trying before you build a studio is a very good one. This is not a cheap hobby.
Thanks, that's what I was thinking but was not sure if I was spending too much for a starter torch.

Are there any particular touches that I should stay away from? I know GTT are highly regarded so is there a decent model I could start with and grow with experience without spending too much? Are there other torches that are good quality and highly regarded as well?

I was thinking of getting a table setup on wheels so that I could roll my table out of the way when not in use. I was thinking of picking up a stainless steel table that you see in the kitchens of restraunts. I should be able to find one cheap somewhere. I have yet to figure out the ventilation system but wanted to get the more intricate parts out of the way.

So any suggestions on torch brands and models that I could research? I could also use some advice/direction on a kiln as well.
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  #6  
Old 2013-11-28, 2:11pm
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AmorphousDesigns AmorphousDesigns is offline
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highly recommend "Contemporary Lampworking" books, they are widely considered the "bible" for lampworkers and will answer many questions.

I started with a GTT Lynx, it is good for soft and boro. GTT torches hold their value very well, so if you want to upgrade it's easy to sell. But you may not want to upgrade for a while, these torches are HIGHLY versatile and many people cam do almost all the projects you listed on this torch.

SAFETY is paramount, both for yourself and your family/neighbors. Please read about storing propane, oxygen and ventilation. There are lots of threads about safety on here and the books above cover it in detail.

Kilns: they are an expensive, but critical, part of the lampworkers set up. Consider the size of what you want to make. Smaller kilns (I have a SC2, runs off 120, interior ~ 8" x 8" x 5.5" high) can be purchased that work off 120v, but lots of kilns work off 240v, and it's best if you can do a dedicated 20-30amp circuit for it. Smaller glass like beads, can go into a fiber blanket, but larger and/or sculptural glass is best annealed in a proper kiln or you leave lots of stress in the glass and then it can shatter later.
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Old 2013-11-28, 2:19pm
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I agree that you should spend a little time trying it out before committing. Perhaps take a weekend class at Playing with Fire at Rockland, ME (5-6 hours drive for you). PwF offers both soft glass and boro classes and has a range of torches you can try out too. Give Ed and Virginia a call!

A torch with an inner and outer fire will serve you well for your needs of working both soft glass and boro. Both the GTT Scorpion and Bethlehem Bravo are good choices around $800 to look into.

For something along the $300-500 range, I'd suggest the GTT Cheetah or the Lynx. The Cheetah has a much wider flame than the Lynx making it more suitable for larger work such as marbles and sculptural stuff. The Lynx's flame can get a lot narrower than the Cheetah making it better for detailed work.

Can't stress the importance of an adequate ventilation system with proper intake air.

Hope this helps.
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  #8  
Old 2013-11-28, 2:20pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmorphousDesigns View Post
highly recommend "Contemporary Lampworking" books, they are widely considered the "bible" for lampworkers and will answer many questions.

I started with a GTT Lynx, it is good for soft and boro. GTT torches hold their value very well, so if you want to upgrade it's easy to sell. But you may not want to upgrade for a while, these torches are HIGHLY versatile and many people cam do almost all the projects you listed on this torch.

SAFETY is paramount, both for yourself and your family/neighbors. Please read about storing propane, oxygen and ventilation. There are lots of threads about safety on here and the books above cover it in detail.

Kilns: they are an expensive, but critical, part of the lampworkers set up. Consider the size of what you want to make. Smaller kilns (I have a SC2, runs off 120, interior ~ 8" x 8" x 5.5" high) can be purchased that work off 120v, but lots of kilns work off 240v, and it's best if you can do a dedicated 20-30amp circuit for it. Smaller glass like beads, can go into a fiber blanket, but larger and/or sculptural glass is best annealed in a proper kiln or you leave lots of stress in the glass and then it can shatter later.
Thanks for the information I had read how a kiln was basically mandatory so I am figuring that into the budget. I will look into the lynx. As for the 240v that is going to depend on where ERE I setup. I am not a home owner and I am not sure a landlord would like lampwork being done on site so I have thought about renting some artist loft or sharing space with another artist as well. Where I setup will determine the electrical connection so the kiln will probably be the last item I purchase once I know where I will setup shop.

If I can convince a landlord to allow it are they're er go any specific insurance premiums I should look into aside from fire?
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  #9  
Old 2013-11-28, 2:22pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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I should note I don't mind spending quite a chunk on the equipment I just didn't want to go out and spend 800 to find out that I would have been fine with spending 300 on a torch.

I will look into these classes I think a weekend crash course could be beneficial and I could do that, I just couldn't do the commute for daily practice time.
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  #10  
Old 2013-11-28, 2:30pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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First off in my opinion I would not start with a kit just because they are overpriced and the oxygen/ propane regulators are not good quality and will last less than a year....ask me how I know, also when you buy a kit they seem to have a lot of stuff that while it may be useful is overpriced, so shop around. You can usually get good used regulators( http://www.ebay.com/itm/oxygen-acety...item4acc7a876a) from ebay as well as good used torches from ebay and another site the melting pot or talkglass dot com.
There are also tons of youtube videos online you can watch to learn almost anything about lampworking/ glassblowing etc. This guy Timia Glass has 160 videos available http://www.youtube.com/user/TimiaGlass and Acroduster has a bunch of glass videos as well http://www.youtube.com/user/acroduster/videos
Also if you type in flameworking, glassblowing, lampworking in a youtube search there are hundreds of videos. There are some really good lengthy ones from Corning Museum of Glass or CMOG

Other things to consider are whether you are going with tanked oxygen or oxygen concentrators which can be limiting especially with larger torches. Do you have access to a welding supply store for tanked oxygen and are you able to load the bottles in your vehicle and transport to your house or do they deliver? You can also use torches designed for oxygen concentrators.You could also purchase the equipment for a homefill setup which is the route I will go eventually...I'm currently on tanked. There will likely be a hundred or more recommendations on torches. A lot will swear by this or that torch. While I don't really use one but have tried one or two out , the GTT(www.glasstorchtech.com/) torches are some of the best and some of the priciest too, but you'll likely have a very lengthy waiting period buying one new from Willy and Wally. If you are planning on doing mostly solid work like large marbles and such then GTT's are some of the best as well. I'm not sure as for which GTT torches are good for both soft and boro. Personally I started on a small torch with only soft glass about 6 years ago. I too was always fascinated with glass since I was a kid and went to a craft fair and saw someone making spun glass trinkets with a jewelers torch.Don't worry about what other people think as far as you being a guy and enjoying arts and crafts....I'm a guy too 6'2" tall and 275 lbs lol. I bought a Carlisle CC mini torch, which are reasonably priced and will melt boro, on a small scale, albeit slower than a GTT triple mix torch. I've since bought a Red Max torch (I got the one specifically for boro so it's not good for soft glass) I also picked up a used Bethlehem PM2D non water cooled from ebay and made my own water cooler for it. I also bought a brand new Bethlehem Bravo which I love. I built a homemade foot pedal (with a lot of help from people here) which controls the outer fire of the torch when the footpedal is depressed. A new Bravo torch is now priced at 860 bucks. Bethlehem also just came out with the Champion torch which is 1600 bucks and is the replacement of the PM2D. http://www.abrimagery.com/index.php/...sories-c-432_8 You can always start small and figure out if you'll enjoy the hobby or not, most get hooked right away....as someone else said. As far as kilns go I bought a Skutt GM10F which is smallish inside but works well for what I do. Just can't do super large sculptures and such. My kiln runs on a standard household socket 110 or 115 volt. Granted I paid about 1000 bucks for it but I've had no issues with it since I purchased it. My dream kiln if I were to ever become more than a hobbyist is the Skutt Scarab XL http://www.skutt.com/glass/products/hotglasskilns.php
Well I hope this helps you. I gotta run....heading to Thanksgiving Dinner at family's. Enjoy your Thanksgiving.
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  #11  
Old 2013-11-28, 2:37pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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Also Griffin Glass Tools sells a ventilation kit I have the largest one here's a link. It works very well.http://www.griffinglass.com/index.ph...hk=1&Itemid=19
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Old 2013-11-28, 2:43pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Thank you everyone for all of the advice. Especially since it is thanksgiving. I hope you all have a great holiday. I am still in the planning phases and will be for a while but I hope that I do like this hobby. Mainly it will be a hobby and something to keep me occupied during retirement so I still have about 35 years to practice lol.
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Old 2013-11-28, 2:45pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliglassguy View Post
Also Griffin Glass Tools sells a ventilation kit I have the largest one here's a link. It works very well.http://www.griffinglass.com/index.ph...hk=1&Itemid=19
Awesome I will be looking into these, thanks very much
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Old 2013-11-28, 2:49pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Thanks for the info on the different type of oxygen. I have been thinking that I was going to start off using the torches that use both propane and oxygen in a tank. I am sure there is a local welding supply company which will deliver tanks for me. However I am a n00b and could be going in go wrong direction, should I be looking at using liquid?
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Old 2013-11-28, 3:19pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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I wouldn't do liquid oxy as yet. I've been told the tanks continually vent of quite noisily. While a Dewar I believe it's called (liquid oxy tank) holds about 18 "K" size tanks I believe they are best suited for a studio that runs continually as a business/ teaching facility, however I do not have one so don't take my advice maybe someone else will chime in here that does use or know more about liquid oxygen. I'm also not sure what a dewar rents for or if you could have it delivered to a residence, especially a residence you rent. I would definitely be setting up in the garage area if I were you. Get a stand type electric heater that rotates and has a blower and place it next to you while torching to stay warm. Something like this one http://www.officemax.com/office-supp...ct-prod4410048
Also I think a guy here named Istandalone24/7 lives in Vermont though I'm not sure where in Vermont. Guess what I just looked him( Istandalone24/7) up and he lives very local to you as in same city Bennington Vermont. You should get a hold of him send a PM (private message)
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Last edited by caliglassguy; 2013-11-28 at 3:26pm. Reason: added content
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Old 2013-11-28, 3:47pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliglassguy View Post
I wouldn't do liquid oxy as yet. I've been told the tanks continually vent of quite noisily. While a Dewar I believe it's called (liquid oxy tank) holds about 18 "K" size tanks I believe they are best suited for a studio that runs continually as a business/ teaching facility, however I do not have one so don't take my advice maybe someone else will chime in here that does use or know more about liquid oxygen. I'm also not sure what a dewar rents for or if you could have it delivered to a residence, especially a residence you rent. I would definitely be setting up in the garage area if I were you. Get a stand type electric heater that rotates and has a blower and place it next to you while torching to stay warm. Something like this one http://www.officemax.com/office-supp...ct-prod4410048
Also I think a guy here named Istandalone24/7 lives in Vermont though I'm not sure where in Vermont. Guess what I just looked him( Istandalone24/7) up and he lives very local to you as in same city Bennington Vermont. You should get a hold of him send a PM (private message)
Wow thanks for that info I will send him a pm now. Yea I doubt anyplace I rent will allow a studio setup so I may have to rent an artists loft. Hopefully I can find a place at my home to play around and only rent a loft when I know I want to pursue this.
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Old 2013-11-28, 4:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliglassguy View Post
Also Griffin Glass Tools sells a ventilation kit I have the largest one here's a link. It works very well.http://www.griffinglass.com/index.ph...hk=1&Itemid=19
The "inline" fan in this ventilation kit looks a lot like the one that came with the kit sold by GlassCraft years ago that many of us purchased only to find out that it's just a booster fan. It's meant to be used in a HVAC unit to boost airflow. On its own, it draws at about 200CFM. Many of us ended up replacing it.

Here old threads on this topic if you are interested:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ght=hydroponic

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ght=hydroponic
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Old 2013-11-28, 5:18pm
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I like you did not want to buy the wrong torch and looked around until I found the National M-8 torch. What I liked about the torch is you can buy different tips for the torch as you grow in your hobby, unlike other torches where if you want to upgrade you have to buy a new torch. They do surface mix and premix so you buy the tips for what you want to do. I started with the torch and a m7 tip which works very well but I have upgraded to the m11 tip. I don't do boro but if I wanted to I could buy an adapter and put on premix tips. This torch was short money to start so I went with it, I like it so much I doubt I will buy an other. I will add to to the torch I have.

It can be seen here:

http://www.sundanceglass.com/national8mtr.html

Artco is a member on this board and they also sell the M-8, scroll down to the middle of the page.

http://www.artcoinc.com/national_torches.php

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Old 2013-11-29, 6:54am
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hello there, pm returned. nice to see there's another Bennentonian here....i thought i was the only one!

just a hint, but if you search "beginner setup" you'll find the info you need
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Old 2013-11-29, 8:29am
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Quote:
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I like you did not want to buy the wrong torch and looked around until I found the National M-8 torch. What I liked about the torch is you can buy different tips for the torch as you grow in your hobby, unlike other torches where if you want to upgrade you have to buy a new torch. They do surface mix and premix so you buy the tips for what you want to do. I started with the torch and a m7 tip which works very well but I have upgraded to the m11 tip. I don't do boro but if I wanted to I could buy an adapter and put on premix tips. This torch was short money to start so I went with it, I like it so much I doubt I will buy an other. I will add to to the torch I have.

It can be seen here:

http://www.sundanceglass.com/national8mtr.html

Artco is a member on this board and they also sell the M-8, scroll down to the middle of the page.

http://www.artcoinc.com/national_torches.php

Bob
This torch looks nice but seems like you would have to change tips frequently for different tasks, have you found this statement to be true and is it a hassle changing tips frequently?
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