New (well, sort of) Messy Color: Cirrus

[Kathy]

We recently re-engineered our latest Messy Color: Cirrus.

We sold about 30 lb of Cirrus at the Frantz Bash in August. Shortly thereafter we realized that the Cirrus wasn't working the way we had hoped, so we decided to re-engineer it to work more like the vintage moonstone glass that has been sporadically available.

The new Cirrus will stay translucent after annealing and despite long torching times. You can tease out the opacifiers by cooling and heating it repeatedly - so you can keep it transparent or work it towards the opaque end of the spectrum as you prefer.

We'd like to offer replacements to anyone who purchased the "old" Cirrus at the Bash. Please PM me and be sure to let me know how much you purchased and your snail mail address. I only brought 30 lb back from China in my suitcase, so honesty is appreciated!

Messy Cirrus is leaving China next week and will be available from Frantz in late December.

Pat Frantz has worked with the Cirrus and I'll be posting photos as soon as they become available. I also wanted to point out Kevan’s fabulous goddess made with Cirrus that she posted in the Family Room. Thanks, Kevan!

[rainygrrl]

In case you haven't found it yet, here's Kevan's thread.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=39944

Talk about gorgeous! Both glass and goddess!!

I'm spoiled--Kathy has sent some to me too! It's voluptuous in the rod form, and I can't wait to try it. Just got back from the WA coast tonight. Really love that wind, hail, and snow--don't you Kevan?

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by rainygrrl

In case you haven't found it yet, here's Kevan's thread.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=39944

Talk about gorgeous! Both glass and goddess!!

I'm spoiled--Kathy has sent some to me too! It's voluptuous in the rod form, and I can't wait to try it. Just got back from the WA coast tonight. Really love that wind, hail, and snow--don't you Kevan?

It's beautiful glass and it really is opalie. I love it Kathy and thank you for sending it to me.

Roberta, it was like a blizzard driving from Olympia to the beach tonight. It took us 2 1/2 hours. Huge flakes. What is with the weather this November? We had such a great sping and summer here. Maybe that's it, we're paying for that? lol

[Starrr]

I'm still having a problem with buying glass that is made in China and seeing people bitch about Chinese made glass beads.

Kathy, if you really stand behind your glass, why not have it made in the USA? Did you choose China to develop your glass recopies because they are more skilled, or was it less expensive for you to produce a product in China and then sell it to the masses at a huge profit?

I'm sure you could find a Plethora of furnace people who would be willing to replicate your glass formulas into an American made product.

This might be something you might want to think about considering how much the lampwork community looks with distain toward Chinese glass products.

Edie

[Kathy]

Edie,

I feel like there is a fundamental difference between the glass product that we sell and the finished product that most people complain about. We are not trying to compete with US artists, but actually we believe that we can help US artists be more productive and creative by offering new colors.

I do stand behind Messy Color, and I also stand behind the fact that it's made in China. I chose to produce glass cane in China because the factory owner, his wife, and his family are my friends. I feel like partnering with this small family owned factory is a rich and meaningful connection due to the personal relationship I have with them. It seems natural to start the business with people I know and trust and who have immense expertise in the production of glass cane (and who just happen to be Chinese).

Regarding your profitability comment, please understand that we are offering our product at the lowest possible price that we can at this point, which means that as a new business we are continuing to invest our personal monies into this endeavor. We have seen several comments from people that they believe that the price of Messy Color should be significantly lower than our competitors' simply because it is made in China. However, the raw material inputs are actually a global market and are every bit as expensive in China as they are in the US, or in Italy for that matter.

There are a lot of stereotypes that exist about China and not every factory is the mass market exploitative operation that is ever present on television. If I felt that way about this factory, I certainly wouldn’t be in business with them. In a country of 1.3 billion people, it's not quite accurate to group all individuals and businesses in the same category as the practices of the Chinese companies that Western media chooses to talk about. To do so would be similar to grouping the mom & pop store down the street or your local watering hole with Enron, Halliburton, Walmart, and etc.... Unfortunately, I think that the general disdain that is present in this and other markets for products made in China is caused by limited and misleading information in Western media.

In any case I hope that if you ever have any questions or concerns about Messy Color you will feel free to contact me directly.

Kathy

[parisgal]

I have a problem with cheaply made, un annealed beads - particularly when they are sold as high quality, artisan-made goods. Often these are made in factories in India and China.

I do not have a problem with product that states clearly the differences, such as the variation in COE in Czech glass (or Check), or a quality controlled product, such as the glass from Germany (Lauscha and Kugler, which includes the new ASK), small glass manufactueres in the US or, in this case, China.

I am just happy enough to have a supplier working hard to produce one of my favorite types of glass - opals.

[PaulaD]

Just one comment. A lot of the people that could produce glass rods in the U.S. don't want to because it is production work and they are more interested in creative expression. There are also additional expenses incurred when producing in another country. Shipping and Import Tax are two big ones that detract from the bottom line...

The CIM colors are gorgeous, btw, and I hope to get more of them soon..

Paula

[loco]

Kathy, While I have not yet had the pleasure of working your Cirrus glass, I have to say thank you for being concerned and diligent regarding your product. The fact that you are offering to replace this glass is unheard of and shows me that your company will stand behind it’s product no matter what. For that you should be commended.

By chance are you interested in some nasty bubbly black glass that pops every ½ inch? Grrrrr crap glass, 3 different suppliers, 2 different batches, 7 pounds of garbage, priceless? NOT!

[Chuckie]

Originally Posted by Starrr

I'm sure you could find a Plethora of furnace people who would be willing to replicate your glass formulas into an American made product.

This might be something you might want to think about considering how much the lampwork community looks with distain toward Chinese glass products.

Why are you holding Kathy to a different standard just because her glass is produced in China? Effetre and Vetrofond are made in Italy. Check Glass is made in Czechoslovalkia. Reichenbach and Zimmerman is made in Germany. Gaffer is made in New Zealand. Unless you're a hard-core dedicated Bullseye glass user, then it's not right to hold Kathy to a different standard and requiring her to produce her product in the USA. China is just another place on the global map.

The only thing Kathy should be held accountable for is quality control.

Char

[loco]

Originally Posted by Chuckie

Why are you holding Kathy to a different standard just because her glass is produced in China? Effetre and Vetrofond are made in Italy. Check Glass is made in Czechoslovalkia. Reichenbach and Zimmerman is made in Germany. Gaffer is made in New Zealand. Unless you're a hard-core dedicated Bullseye glass user, then it's not right to hold Kathy to a different standard and requiring her to produce her product in the USA. China is just another place on the global map.

The only thing Kathy should be held accountable for is quality control.

Char

And it appears she is doing that better than any glass supplier I have ever heard of! Kudos to Kathy!

[Chuckie]

Exactly...

[Kevan]

China isn't going anywhere, they are here to stay so get used to it.

From what I understand Kathy and Dana have lived in China for a few years. They aren't making glass on the scale of Effetre and Vetrofond, so they can't possibly produce it at the same prices those huge companies are doing.

I haven't seen any other company give the customer service they have so far. I'm pretty impressed with them. They will answer any questions you have and they go the extra mile without even being asked to do that.

What else would one want from a glass producer?

[Michelle Walsh]

Kathy,

I just want to commend you for your levelheaded response in this thread. My respect level for you just rose even higher than it was, and it was already high.

~Michelle

[jhana]

Originally Posted by MapleValleyGlass

Kathy,

I just want to commend you for your levelheaded response in this thread. My respect level for you just rose even higher than it was, and it was already high.

~Michelle

I was just thinking the same thing.
ETA
Since when is it wrong to make a profit as long as your integrity is intact and you deliver
on your promises?

[PaulaD]

Yep. What Michelle said.

Paula

[Carolyn M]

Haven't bought any CIM glass yet, but probably will after reading this thread!

[flamemoth]

Kimberly..those are just...I'm trying to think of a decent adjective, but I can't!
I love your work..perfection.

[DesertDreamer]

What Chuckie said!!!

I love the new colors that CIM is producing! Bordello is the love of my life, Rose Quartz is the first pink I've ever like, and the Ginger is a lovely neutral neutral.

I think there's a world of difference between mass-produced beads and the basic glass from which ANY bead can be produced.

[PaulaD]

Kimberly Yummy!!!

Paula