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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2015-07-26, 3:06pm
Deniska Deniska is offline
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Default question about setup

I have been trying to decide on what I'm going to do about ventilation. My question is what are the basics that I need. I'm working on a HH and with soft glass. A funnel system would work good for me, as I am basically right in front of a window when I work. Would this be enough? I was thinking I could put an insert in the window for the fan and have the funnel in front of my torch. And then maybe, if I want, put in a hood at some later date.
Thanks for any advice
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  #2  
Old 2015-07-26, 3:16pm
2xMI 2xMI is offline
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There is a wealth of information on this forum about ventilation, so if you haven't read up on it yet it'll keep you busy for quite a while! What you will need and how you configure it really depends on your individual set up, what torch, make up air, size of the room, size of your exhaust fan, where you are sitting in relation to your exhaust, etc. It can seem a little overwhelming at first, but it's really necessary information. Also, Google "Andrea Guarino ventilation" to see one solution.
Good luck!

Mimi
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  #3  
Old 2015-07-26, 3:18pm
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shawnette shawnette is offline
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Funnel systems work great.That's what I have.

http://hotglasschick.com/stuff/2013/...get-workspace/
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  #4  
Old 2015-07-26, 3:34pm
2xMI 2xMI is offline
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Perfect, Shawnette!
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  #5  
Old 2015-07-26, 3:38pm
Deniska Deniska is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
Funnel systems work great.That's what I have.

http://hotglasschick.com/stuff/2013/...get-workspace/
That is sort of what I was thinking for my space. It's a small room, I think at one time it was the original front porch. It's about as wide as your table, it's a rectangular shaped room. It shared a breaker with our furnace (died a couple of years ago). No competition for power for my kiln. Plus with the porch right outside the window, I have a convenient place for my tank. I love how you broke the price of everything down. Very affordable. I also posses the "frugal" DNA...... except when it comes to glass.... I seem to be able to spend lots of money on glass...
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Old 2015-07-26, 3:44pm
Deniska Deniska is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xMI View Post
There is a wealth of information on this forum about ventilation, so if you haven't read up on it yet it'll keep you busy for quite a while! What you will need and how you configure it really depends on your individual set up, what torch, make up air, size of the room, size of your exhaust fan, where you are sitting in relation to your exhaust, etc. It can seem a little overwhelming at first, but it's really necessary information. Also, Google "Andrea Guarino ventilation" to see one solution.
Good luck!

Mimi
I have been reading the posts in the safety section most of this week. I just couldn't figure out what system to go with. Is one better than the other for a small room. That's why I started this thread. I thought maybe I could get some information from someone who knows..... before I go and buy things I don't need.... or not buy something I should have. There are a great many posts and links showing people's setups.... but I couldn't find one that said the benefits of one over the other for the size of your room. If you know of one like that I'd love the link.
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  #7  
Old 2015-07-26, 4:00pm
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It's more about preference & what fits your situation. As long as it works well, there's no "better". A barley box won't work for me, but plenty of people have them and love them.
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  #8  
Old 2015-07-26, 5:51pm
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I love my funnel system and have used it the past 9 years. But do your research like all of us did and you decide. Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 2015-07-26, 6:14pm
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QuiteCuntrary QuiteCuntrary is offline
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Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought that in order to calculate the cfm requirements, you need to measure the opening of your area. But if you don't have a Barley box, wouldn't you then need some crazy high cfm?
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Old 2015-07-26, 6:34pm
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If you are working "close enough" in front of a funnel with "enough" air flow you effectively have a 'working opening' of something like 30 inches.

"Enough" being the key word and how much that is a point of discussion.

How much make up air you have coming in and how much 'work' it takes to get the make up air to the bench will have an effect.

At least that is how I understand it Annie.
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  #11  
Old 2015-07-26, 6:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiteCuntrary View Post
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought that in order to calculate the cfm requirements, you need to measure the opening of your area. But if you don't have a Barley box, wouldn't you then need some crazy high cfm?
No, you calculate the area of the opening of your exhaust. With a funnel, the exhaust is right over/under/in front of your flame, so you can use a lower cfm fan.
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  #12  
Old 2015-07-26, 10:01pm
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Well I'm all sorts of confused now! I'd planned on outfitting a computer armoire to use the main cavity as a barley box, with a funnel being right in front of the torch, and heading through the back, straight out the window, with an inline fan. So I don't need the armoire after all? Just when I think I have a grasp on it. I hear something new. I am dying to get back on the torch!
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  #13  
Old 2015-07-27, 1:34am
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A barley box with a funnel in it can serve other purposes.

It can help make a system with "just" enough flow more efficient at guiding and capturing the fumes of combustion.

It can limit spread of shocky glass and can cut back the cross currents of unstable air flow to the torch flame.

It can also ensure that the make up air comes over your shoulder and keep fresh air in your breathing zone.


Funnel systems are best when you have an abundance of air movement power in the vent fan. Getting a fan that is too close to the minimum needed can result in poor capture of the fume cloud and gives you a false sense of security.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2015-07-27 at 1:39am.
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  #14  
Old 2015-07-31, 6:38pm
chuckmyown chuckmyown is offline
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With a funnel set up does the "125 CFM per square foot exhaust opening" formula still hold? So that a 12in x 12in opening would require a 125 CFM fan. I'll be working about 2 feet from the exhaust window, very similar to Shawnette, see my setup (so far) on my "welcome" post. Thanks for any input.

Edit: Phill, you say "Funnel systems are best when you have an abundance of air movement power in the vent fan. Getting a fan that is too close to the minimum needed can result in poor capture of the fume cloud and gives you a false sense of security."

Would 150-200 CFM be sufficient in my scenario?

Last edited by chuckmyown; 2015-07-31 at 6:42pm.
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  #15  
Old 2015-08-01, 1:34am
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I will have to defer to Shawnette and others for an answer to that question because I don't have a funnel system my self.

I do know that more is better and too much is somewhere around levitating small children and pets.

It has been almost a decade since I did the research for my system and I got the 125 number from discussions about the opening face of barley boxes and commercial sized cooking hoods with sides coming down to the torch bench or in room corners that limit the air flow to the front and one side.

Those all had hefty fans in them because folks were expecting to wave 15 to 20 inches of glass rod in their hands on both sides of a central torch and a person needs a minimum height from elbow to eye brow to work in so those conversations were about a minimum of 6 to 8 square feet times 125 cfms equaling 750 to 1000 cubic feet peer minute of air movement.
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  #16  
Old 2015-08-01, 1:32pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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None of the rules of thumb really apply to a funnel, just to plenum hoods. You are gonna have to experiment. I do not think 125 cfm will pull enough air to do the trick. I would Start with an 800 to 900 cfm and test the setup well. I ran a funnel with an 900 cfm fan and 20 ft of 10 inch ducting and it worked well. Understand though that a funnel systems area of capture drops off very rapidly as you move away from the opening so you must work close to it for it to be effective. Also, more is NOT always better. Since you are going to be working closely you may find that too much is not good since it tends to suck things like paper and other light objects into the system. Mine did I now have a full steel hood that is 4ft X 4ft over my bench and its just a better system all around. After working with both I would suggest you go with a hood if you can.
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