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Studio -- Show us your studio setup

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  #1  
Old 2018-01-23, 7:02pm
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Default First Post is a studio question

Hi everyone, i'm new to the forum, seems like alot of good people on this one. So here goes...after realizing i want to do lampwork, i've done a hell of alot of research and reading to decide where i want to set up my space. my wife and I have three young children so the garage is really out of the question due to kid traffic. I briefly considered building a small mobile cabinet that holds my oxygen and propane tanks with a small Kiln inside that I can unfold and work outside. however this option seemed to be very temporary and I would have to roll it back inside the garage at night...not ideal. so I have settled on buying a shed. I have found one that is a 12 x 10 galvanized steel for $350 including a framed out floor that I will cover with hardibacker or some other fireproof material.
I plan on working mostly boro and soon I will have a gtt lynx on the way.
I will cut an 800 CFM exhaust fan into the wall over my bench and install a window unit and at least one large vent on the opposite side to allow air in.
my real issue now is safety before I move forward. with a propane tank I am comfortable leaving that outside the shed with the hose coming through the wall. obviously I do not want the O2 tank inside the shed so I am considering my options here:
should I build a small lean-to and store the O2 outside in an open metal cage?
should I build a horizontal metal cage on the outside of the shed and lay it down?
should I use the tank on the outside of the shed and store it somewhere else when I'm done?
it will be chained up both when in use and when stored but my main concern is how well it will hold up to Florida weather if left outside for several weeks before I need a replacement. How well do they deal with heat and humidity?
any suggestions or experience would be much appreciated from you guys who have done something similar. safety, the least amount of hassle with moving the tank, etc... thanks

Last edited by Fuzzy; 2018-01-23 at 7:22pm.
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  #2  
Old 2018-01-24, 2:24am
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KJohn KJohn is offline
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No advice on your set up but welcome and congrats on getting started.

There are quite a few safety threads on here, but I would advise finding some local sources too. The oxy tanks are the thing, i use concentrators but Florida is very humid, especially compared to AZ. I agree on keeping the propane outside of an enclosed space.
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  #3  
Old 2018-01-24, 2:26pm
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I was under the impression that you could keep oxygen tanks securely chained inside the shop. Now I am 2nd guessing myself.
And welcome!
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  #4  
Old 2018-01-24, 4:57pm
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Dad keeps his O2 tank outside, sister keeps her tank outside (both chained to the wall), I'm the rebel and keep mine in my studio...
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  #5  
Old 2018-01-24, 11:35pm
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There will be a metric ton of information in the safety conversation threads as well as the studio threads and I have learned a lot just cruising them.

The O2 bottle will be just fine inside your shed.

You will want to keep it upright because the dangers of tanks that size are when they fall down and putting them into a horizontal position exposes them to that danger twice, once you put it down and once when you pick it up.

Besides if there is any thing lose inside the thing it will be less likely to get anywhere near the valve as long as it is upright.

Check with your city before you invest in a tank though because quit a few have ordnances against tanks in residential areas. Mostly its to keep the backyard mechanics from setting up junk yards but it can keep the welding supply companies from making deliveries to the house.

It is possible to load one into a car back seat to bring it home and take it back for swapping out but it really is a big hazard to your back.

If you go with tanked O2 remember that the valve stems will leak if it is not ALL the way open or ALL the way closed unlike the propane tanks valve stems.

I really recommend that you skip the tanked O2 and go with oxygen concentrator(s).

They can be found for less than the cost of buying a tank and will work just fine for learning this glass melting addiction.

When you get around to dropping 6 or 7 hundred dollars or more on a torch then you can think about going to tanked O2 if your really want to rage the torch.

I did pick up a "knee high" tank when I was in Florida, I think they called it a "forty", but I wouldn't want to be man handling anything much larger than that on a regular basis.

As for your shed you will want to insulate it both for the heat and for the noise.

I know of folks that have their torch bench set up on a table right next to a 7 foot locker with shelves for everything and a lockable door.
The torch and tools go into the locker at the end of a session with the hoses run through a hole in the back of the locker and the wall to the tanks chained up out side the wall.


Good Luck with your start and remember that you only have to learn all the safety details once but you do need to know them.

Welcome to our addiction.


ETA: When using the search function use quotation marks for stringing words together or you may wind up with a gazillion threads for each individual word.

Google will also have search answers if you add Lampworketc.com before your search phrase and may be more productive.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2018-01-24 at 11:45pm.
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  #6  
Old 2018-01-25, 9:59am
5betsy 5betsy is offline
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Consider an oxy concentrator or two. Cheaper in the long run and they live inside.
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  #7  
Old 2018-01-25, 7:59pm
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you guys are awesome for the responses so thank you. It crossed my mind that if i have a tank inside i can see it, therefore can see a problem if the pressure is down or if a fire starts ( i know im overthinking it now ) I'll def put it upright and chained after reading the responses. As far as an oxycon, thats the one thing i haven't really shopped around for. I originally thought they only worked well with certain torches and were much lower output, but today i watched a video from Revere Glass and he was running a Mirage on an oxycon no problem.
So i assume they are safer and i just need to read up on them so i don't say anything more stupid than i already have.
My local Airgas charges $9/mnth and $26 per refill of their largest tank, a 129cf they sd it weighs 60-70 lbs.

I have so many questions that i thought i had answered, but i'll just lay it out there: I have a $2,000 budget right now for this.
Shed - $350
GTT Lynx - $435
tanks/tools/glasses - $400
venthood/workbench - $200
Kiln - $600

It's a little tight as you can see. Would you hold out for a used kiln and buy alot of glass for practice...would you get a better torch than a Lynx and get just a couple tools...Damn
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  #8  
Old 2018-01-25, 11:59pm
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My suggestion is to start out with good basic stuff;

Get a good kiln. Used and less expensive if you can. New and smaller if you must.

This is a patience thing.

Shop everywhere for a used oxycon. They come up all the time in the want ads.
Someones parent will have been using one until they cross the rainbow bridge and the insurance will have paid several grand for it new but they can not be re-used for medical purposes unless they get re-certified which almost as expensive as buying new so they don't often get re-certified.

This is an email I sent to a Craigs List seller in 2014 for a 5 LPM unit;

Hi Tami.
I saw your new ad on Craig’s List and that you did not use the choice of an email response so I am sure that you have been inundated by
emails.
I am only sending this one to you because there are
some things about these machines you may not be aware of.
My research on the ‘net says that it is illegal to sell these machines to some one to use as a medical device with out a prescription.

Here is where I found that :
http://www.everythingrespiratoryandm...-concentrator/

The places that do sell used machines for medical use with a prescription are asking for a thousand dollars for used machines.
Here is a website I found with your model :
http://www.openboxmedical.com/shop/r...ii-unit-combo/
If you sold your machine to one of these places they would have to
re-certify it for medical use and between that cost, the costs of shipping and
the cost of reselling it I don’t think they will will give you the six hundred dollars I am now willing to offer you.



This unit was being sold with a tank filling compressor called a Homefil II otherwise I would have only offered her $400.


Oxygen concentrators come up for sale often so spend some time shopping and look in major cities near by or as close as you are willing to drive.

I once bought a 10LPM unit 200 miles away from me for $200 because they were moving out of the country and wanted to get rid of it quickly.

PS You wont need a regulator or flashback or check valves on hoses from oxycons . Oxygen itself doesn't burn, it just causes everything else to burn.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2018-01-26 at 12:44am.
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  #9  
Old 2018-01-26, 12:25am
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Once you have a kiln to keep your creations from cracking while they are annealing and a steady source of oxygen then you can start shopping for other stuff.

When I started I made a home made kiln out of a 1930's waffle maker heating element and some fire place bricks. I took that, my didymium eye wear and some glass on a 3 day drive down to Florida for a 3 week stay over the holidays and melted glass in the open garage door way.
I bought a welders torch kit there and melted glass 5 hours a day. I still have those fugly beads somewhere but only because my wifeunit won't let me throw them out.


Later I made another "mail box kiln" out of a farmers size mail box, a space heater with the quartz rods, a couple of feet of kao wool insulation and a temperature controller but I was an electronics technician in the Navy for 17 years and I am more than just handy with those kinds of detail. That one cost me some $200 in stead of the $600 that I did not have at the time. There is a thread around here somewhere with instructions on just how to do that.

Its OK to start out on the cheap in the back yard on a picnic bench but when you decide to set up a studio with any ventilation read everything you can about the ventilation needs.

800 cubic feet per minute ventilation is fine for cooking and for bathrooms and green houses but unless you are working in something called a "barley box" (and a small one at that) you really need at least half as much more and twice or three times that is much safer.

Check with the local heating and air conditioning places. Up here in the cold, frozen north folks get new furnaces every 15 to 20 years and they wind up taking the old house sized blower with them to the junk yard.
You could pick one up often for free because the HVAC companies have to pay the junk yard fees to get rid of them.

I don't know how often that will happen down where you live but shop around and ask around. You could spend a bundle on a new ventilation fan but some patience could pay off in a big way.

Remember that the chemicals used to give the glass its color are more often than not hazardous to human health and will boil off the glass while it is in the torch flame.
Those particles then will float around in the air you and your family are breathing and will also settle like dust on every surface within 50 feet where it will wind up on hands and then inside the humans that own those hands.

We have extensive threads here on ventilation and on why 'good enough' isn't really good enough.

If it seems like I am harping it's because I am.
A major part of my time in the Navy was writing safety reports for stuff that should not have happened and it has become a my soap box for the rest of my life.

Happy Hunting.


PS Don't use acetylene welding torch hose with propane gas.
The propane will cause it to gum up inside and eventually disintegrate it into a cracked gummy leaking mess. Also is it will gum up the inside of your regulator and ruin it.
You want hose that is marked as 'T' rated and you can find it near the bar-b-que stuff in the hardware stores.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2018-01-26 at 12:40am.
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  #10  
Old 2018-01-28, 7:07pm
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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ya im def seeing that patience is required to get started but i'm excited about taking the steps to do it right and be safe. I'll get shed, build workbench, setup torch, build the ventilation, keep looking for a used kiln. I'm also looking at attaching a digital controller to an analog. Thanks for the info on oxycons, i've been reading about them now. I've decided to go with tanked o2 to start since its only $9/mnth + $26 refills and the Lynx should be efficient. Maybe a couple oxycons will be in the cards a few paydays down the road. Maybe i could afford them if i turn a toaster oven into a kiln. ��
Either way i'll have the shed soon and i have an electrician friend that's gonna run it on it's own breaker. I'm thinking all outlets on left, kiln on it's own table on the left, torch facing back wall of shed, propane outside left wall and o2 chained up on the right close to the door. Thanks again guys for all the info. I'll be around.
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  #11  
Old 2018-01-30, 12:14am
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You might want to get some of those radio ear muff hearing protectors if you wind up playing out in the shed in the rain.


Oh and I set up a small mirror so I can see my wife behind me.

Keeps me from jumping out of my skin when she appears suddenly what with the vent fan roaring and the music at the correct level for rock and roll { that would be 11 according to Spinal Tap}.
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  #12  
Old 2018-01-30, 7:33am
notrhydon notrhydon is offline
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Speedslug, good call on the mirror! I always get spooked when folks show up in the studio, not a great spot to be in with a 1.5" marble on the final punty!
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  #13  
Old 2018-01-30, 9:27am
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For those new to melting glass in the flame you also might want to set up a mirror off to the side so you can see the underside of the flame.


Bearfoot Arts has several videos on youtube where he uses one and I find it a real big help at knowing when I am in the flame or under it.

He starts using the torch showing it at the 1:50 minute mark in this one;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFZM7A5RaoM
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2018-02-02 at 6:25am.
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  #14  
Old 2018-02-06, 11:47am
Shaper Shaper is offline
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Or you could just watch the flame and see it change shape and color when you enter the flame.
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Old 2018-02-09, 5:38pm
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Found out that Jen-Ken Kilns is close to my house so i set up a meeting with the owner and he showed me some new large frontloading annealing kilns they are creating and offered me a chili pepper for a discounted price, also saying he would have larger ones available soon and he would work with me bc i'm local. maybe that will help a little on kiln prices.
Slug, as far as my ventilation plans go, my shed will be a 10x10 or 12x10. I'm looking at an inline 800cfm duct fan with solid tubing and a reducer or hood at the end. The fan is only $78 at Home Depot. I may bump that up to a 1000 cfm or higher from what you're saying. I also spoke to the guys at GTT for awhile and have decided I'm going to get a Phantom out of the gate and collect tools and other things later. This may set me back a couple mnths but thats fine.
I'm planning on running 3 outlets to the right side of shed with 220 for future nds.
Also thinking about a fluorescent tube and strip lights over the table.
By the way i got a used copy of Contemporary Lampworking, reading a few pages a night.
This ain't gonna be easy, but then again, what ever is?

Last edited by Fuzzy; 2018-02-09 at 5:40pm.
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Old 2018-02-11, 12:39pm
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Good choice on the torch Fuzzy. That one is a work horse. I had one for about a year and could do anything I needed to on it. It has a lot of variation in it's ability to produce different flames with some gas pressure changes and valve adjustments. Just takes awhile to get used to. Use a lot of clear at first to keep expenses down.
On the ventilation go with 1000cfm fan and do not use a reducer on your ducting, it will cause stress on your fan and in worse cases can cause a back flow of the air.
I use a recessed LED can light with a swivel head for my overhead light, (works great), and have a 12 inch fluorescent tube overhead at the front of my bench for checking roundness when making marbles.
Have fun and play safe.
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Old 2018-02-11, 5:01pm
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I might suggest you talk to the maker of the torch if you can about the capacity of the fan / ventilation you are planning on.

I was under the impression that the Phantom can burn a hell of a lot of fuel in short order and I think it will overwhelm your ventilation as you are planning it really quickly.

We have extensive conversations in the safety and studio threads about ventilation and my too many years in US Navy as a safety supervisor won't let me stay quiet.

Good luck on your studio build and happy melting.
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Old 2018-02-11, 9:04pm
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Ventilation is determined by the amount of area you are trying to exchange air in and really has nothing to do with the amount gasses your torch burns. For a quick calculation of CFM's needed to clear a room in a certain amount of time you can use this site;
https://www.industrialfansdirect.com...cfm-calculator
My bench is closed in on both sides, back, and the top and bottom so I'm not concerned with replacing the air in the whole room, just the work spaces, as that is where the torch's are.
And by the way the Phantom is a great torch, more torch than what is needed to make beads. You can make 2 to 2 1/2inch marbles pretty easily with it. Once you learn how to adjust it you can get a small little flame for detail work or a large flame for melting in dot stacks on 2 inch marbles, or anything in between.
Another excellent site on ventilation is this one;
https://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/ventilation-primer/
Mike has been designing and teaching about ventilation systems, manufacturing Aura Lens flame working glasses, and helping glass blowers for many years. He actually knows what he is talking about more so than I do. But then again I know a bit myself.
And by the way a phantom doesn't burn "a hell of a lot of fuel". That is unless you want to compare it to a minor or similar small torch.
If you want to learn more I suggest continue reading on this site and go to this site also.
www.talkglass.com/forum
There is a lot of great info there by knowledgeable folks that have been doing mainly boro glass for years and will help you get started right.
Mind you there are always some folks that feel they know something when they really don't, but this is the internet.
Just my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.

Last edited by Shaper; 2018-02-11 at 9:22pm.
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Old 2018-02-15, 9:00pm
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Thanks once again for the input guys. Great site on the formulas considering hood size to determine cfm. Another thought that crossed my mind: a 12 x 10 x 6 shed is 720 cubic ft. A 1300cfm mounted straight into the wall with no ducting to reduce the velocity and facing a 2.5' wide bench might clear the fumes pretty well. If i do use solid tubing and a hood, i'll crunch those numbers again for sure. I would imagine the Phantom eats that o2 a little faster.
I'm going to build the shed foundation this weekend. The used shed fell through so i'm getting a new metal one from Ace Hardware.
Another concern of mine is the noise obviously. Where i plan to put my shed is in the corner of my yard by a privacy fence but my neighbors bedroom is maybe...30 ft away i may install it in the side of the shed and shoot the exhaust into my side yard cuz i plan on working from 8-midnight most nights. Not sure if a muffler is a good idea: it looks possible if its loud as hell.
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Old 2018-02-15, 10:02pm
Shaper Shaper is offline
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Here are a couple of fans that are being used by some folks for their short run exhaust systems.

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/h...hutter-mounted

https://www.industrialfansdirect.com/products/sf16c3

The second one is the one I'm going to use in my next studio.
Quite a few people use a vent hole with a fan mounted in it straight out the wall from their bench.
This is a picture of my work bench with the exhaust going out the back of my bench.
Also I think 30" is enough depth for your bench but you may consider making it 36" instead. I've found that between tools, glass color rods, tubes, and other supplies my bench gets pretty crowded.
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Old 2018-02-16, 4:43am
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Often you can reduce the noise that your neighbors will hear a little by adding another foot or two of duct work after the fan and also pointing the end straight upward with a rain hat on top.
(But that may require re-figuring your numbers.)

Good luck with the build.
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Old 2018-02-16, 8:06pm
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Thats an excellent idea, just shoot it straight up...i like that Slug. Thats a badass bench too Shaper. Exactly what i'm imagining except for the 2 phantoms. damn i cant wait....so im having a few cold ones tonight and since you guys have been cool as hell let me throw another stupid question at you. First order of glass i'm not going Chinese I'm going Schott or Simax....my question is sizes. Do i go 10mm rod and 12mm blowtube with some 25mm heavy wall tube? Instead of 25mm should i do 32mm?
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  #23  
Old 2018-02-17, 2:29pm
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I would use schott tubing to start with, it's cheaper. A piece of 25mm, and 32mm heavy wall are good sizes to start with for pulling points, making spoons. Some 12mm for blow tubes, some folks use it some think it's a waste of glass. I use 6, 8, 10, and 12mm solid rod for punties and tearing off mostly. Larger rod, up to about 18-19mm, for making small, 1- 2", marbles and pendants. I also use 4mm solid clear for making small dots and lines to melt in over fuming.
By the way those are two Mirages. The torch on the right is usually replaced with my Nortel Arrow torch when I'm working by myself.
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