beadroller

[pugmommie]

I think I need one! Granted I have only made about 8 beads, but the are butt ugly imo and I want to make pretty round ones.
Is there a good beginner one to start out with? I was looking at CG beads website and they have all kinds of cool stuff, I just don't know what I need!

[pugmommie]

I leaning towards the SMALL CLASSIC FOUR mixed bead roller. It's got 11x28mm oval
14x14mm barrel
6x15mm disc
14mm round

[SadiesJewels]

I think that's a great one to start with... Then you can buy more in the shape you like best!

[marla0416]

I just got a bead roller and I love it. I'm glad I spent the 6 months working on technique before relying on these aids. I personally did a 40 bead challenge I saw on Heather Trimlett's website. I could only use the same 2 colors and no aids, not even a marver. I learned so much about how fire affects the glass. Obviously my beads improved with time and practice although I still have much more to learn. It's really hard for me to wait... I want to make all those beautiful beads I see immediately. I still consider my self a newbie so I should let others respond who have more experience than I. Best wishes.

[pugmommie]

Originally Posted by marla0416

I just got a bead roller and I love it. I'm glad I spent the 6 months working on technique before relying on these aids. I personally did a 40 bead challenge I saw on Heather Trimlett's website. I could only use the same 2 colors and no aids, not even a marver. I learned so much about how fire affects the glass. Obviously my beads improved with time and practice although I still have much more to learn. It's really hard for me to wait... I want to make all those beautiful beads I see immediately. I still consider my self a newbie so I should let others respond who have more experience than I. Best wishes.

I might check out that bead challenge. When I look at all the pictures of the amazing beads the artists create on here, I am in awe of their talent!

[mewkittie]

Just one? After the first one, I guarantee you'll be buying more. The mixed shape ones are good to start with.

[marla0416]

Originally Posted by pugmommie

I might check out that bead challenge. When I look at all the pictures of the amazing beads the artists create on here, I am in awe of their talent!

Me too. I work with physical challenges--age, eyes, health blah, blah, blah. I think flameworking is extremely challenging. There is so much to remember. I need to stay away from tutorials that are too advanced for me. My ego is taking a major hit.

[Lisi]

If you were my student, I would say, "NO, not yet!!"

I think it is best to learn how to make an evenly rounded bead first before buying a roller. The basic beginner bead is the standard "donut" shape that has the dimpled-in holes. If the holes on your beads are sharp and uneven, the bead itself is uneven (lopsided when you turn it), you need more practice. It won't take that long to "get it".

Everyone learns to make the basic spacer beads (without the rollers!) first. I'm glad I got to step in and give you this advice, because you probably just didn't know. If I was new to making beads these days, I would be overwhelmed and confused by all the shaping tools they have available now. Rollers are for taking a well shaped bead and molding into another shape. Basics first, presses and rollers next.

Beads made on 1/16" mandrels tend to be somewhat rounder shaped (chubby donut) than beads made on the 3/32" mandrels. Either is good for a beginner, as long as you are not getting the thinner mandrels too hot and causing them to bend. When working, try not to get the mandrel glowing hot, like white hot. A little bit of a orange glow occasionally while working is okay. Try and look at the bead at eye level while turning, and it's okay to turn in either direction to even your bead up.

If you don't have the basics down, the roller is not going to make evenly shaped beads for you if the holes are off, or if the glass is not evenly rounded out on the mandrel. Please be patient, practice, and have fun! Before you know it you will be making nice basic donut shapes, and then you are ready to move on to something new! Any of the rollers would be good, and I recommend your first press to be for the "crunch" or "squeeze" beads. You can press a basic donut round bead using this one, and that's pretty easy.

[Lisi]

These are the "squeezed" beads and the press for them. The picture shows beads with a lot of surface decoration, but you can clearly see here the basic shape of the squeezed beads.

http://www.zooziis.com/kaleralongandlean.aspx

These are the "crunch" beads, the same shape as the "squeezed". This is another tool used for this shape:

http://www.cattwalk.com/crunches.htm


In my opinion, both of these are the easiest beginner's presses! Using just a basic round bead for them, and no pre-shaping of a bead to get it to fit into a press.

[pugmommie]

I'm use 3/32" mandrels. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself, I just want to see some results that are good not bad
When I get some glass on the mandrel, I've been rolling it on the Marver. Should I just use the flame and gravity, to get a good shape?

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by pugmommie

I'm use 3/32" mandrels. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself, I just want to see some results that are good not bad
When I get some glass on the mandrel, I've been rolling it on the Marver. Should I just use the flame and gravity, to get a good shape?

Yes, just use the heat and gravity. No marvering at all. The key to getting a good shape is to lay down a small "footprint". What that is, it's a small wrap of glass around the mandrel. It's the base of a good start to a nicely shaped basic bead. To do this, follow these steps:

Get the tip of your rod molten, but not so much it's droopy. Get the mandrel hot too, so your first little wind of glass will stick.

To begin your wrap, touch the mandrel with this molten tip very lightly, and as soon as you do, begin to turn one full turn to get a little mini wrap of glass on there. Gently heat that while turning, and let it smooth out. It might be a little wonky shaped.

Next, add more glass to your wrap and melt that in while turning in either direction. I turn in both directions while working to even up the bead. I "follow the flow" of the heat and gravity.

I'm going to look on Youtube to see if I can find anything about getting the "footprint" down.

brb!

[Lisi]

Here you go. See how she make that little wrap of glass first? That's the footprint, and it's really important to make sure that winds on there evenly. To get this little wrap even, that might take a little bit of practice. This is the base for the rest of the glass. You will be able to add one or two, or several more wraps to that little bead to make your bead as big as you want. When you make them with the footprint like this, that is what creates those nice dimpled-in holes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVhZFKZSCDs

[pugmommie]

Thanks Lisi, I just did 2 beads, heat and gravity and wow they ended up looking like beads!! Amazing!! You have been extremely helpful to me. Thank You!!
I gonna stick with one color at a time for now. Get good at this and then go from there.

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by pugmommie

Thanks Lisi, I just did 2 beads, heat and gravity and wow they ended up looking like beads!! Amazing!! You have been extremely helpful to me. Thank You!!
I gonna stick with one color at a time for now. Get good at this and then go from there.

Yay!!! I'm so happy for you! I was wishing I had done a video of this to show you how it's done. You are on your way now!

[Croft Eeusk]

Pugmommie - come over to the newbie/intermediate weekly thread. We're pretty friendly, we learn stuff all the time and give pats on the back too

We're from various ages/skills/levels and are a pretty chatty bunch.

DJ

[pugmommie]

Originally Posted by Croft Eeusk

Pugmommie - come over to the newbie/intermediate weekly thread. We're pretty friendly, we learn stuff all the time and give pats on the back too

We're from various ages/skills/levels and are a pretty chatty bunch.

DJ

Will do. But I just wanted to show Lisi my 2 beads! I know they are far from perfect, but I am pretty happy with them.

[Floorkasp]

What was helpful to me in making properly shaped beads (next to the great advice already given) was to try to add the glass to the footprint very slowly. I started out just a few weeks ago, and slowly slowly slowly was my mantra. I like to make more of a disc first by adding a thin stripe of moeten glass when going round, and then melting it in. Slowly slowly slowly. It helps me to get good shaped holes. This way I can also chose to stop when the bead is still quite donut shaped, and when I heat it more, the base gets wider and the bead rounder. It is also good to know that no matter how wonky a bead gets, with just heat and gravity and slow turning of the mandrel you can get it back into shape again. When I got my torch at home, two weeks ago, I first made about 40 plain spacer beads with many of my different colors. Practice Practice Practice.....

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by Floorkasp

What was helpful to me in making properly shaped beads (next to the great advice already given) was to try to add the glass to the footprint very slowly. I started out just a few weeks ago, and slowly slowly slowly was my mantra. I like to make more of a disc first by adding a thin stripe of moeten glass when going round, and then melting it in. Slowly slowly slowly. It helps me to get good shaped holes. This way I can also chose to stop when the bead is still quite donut shaped, and when I heat it more, the base gets wider and the bead rounder. It is also good to know that no matter how wonky a bead gets, with just heat and gravity and slow turning of the mandrel you can get it back into shape again. When I got my torch at home, two weeks ago, I first made about 40 plain spacer beads with many of my different colors. Practice Practice Practice.....

Very good advice here!

Originally Posted by pugmommie

Will do. But I just wanted to show Lisi my 2 beads! I know they are far from perfect, but I am pretty happy with them.

Those a pretty good little beads! Much better than my firsts! Oh, and I'm so sorry that I forgot to tell you about the newbie/intermediate weekly thread. That thread is in the Gallery.

[KJohn]

Yes, good advice here. I purchased some rollers soon after I started, and it wasn't until later that I was really able to benefit. The marver throws you off too, just heat and gravity. Once I got it, my bead shapes greatly improved.

One tip you might find useful, is to let the base cool a little after you have put on the initial wrap. This helps stabilize it as you add glass. It does not take that much longer but it helps hold that nice footprint. Good luck and come over --->http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=244845 We just started a new one.

[Ravenesque]

I absolutely agree with the others, and if you practice you can make most of the shapes without one! You're only 8 beads in, the 2 in the pic are great.

Learn the art, heat control

[rainygrrl]

Here's a link to the 40-bead challenge mentioned above:
http://www.heathertrimlett.com/40-beads/index.htm

[Lorraine Chandler]

Can't beat this deal. 5 marvers for 45.00 from Devardi Glass. They select the ones to send you and they are seconds. I couldn't see anything really wrong with them and I use their brass presses which I consider "seconds" and I like them.

Sure would be a great start for newbie. 5 marvers for less than the normal price range of one.

Scroll down to the 16th listing and you will see them. I ordered them and they should be in next week. I will post pictures of what they send me, and any 'flaws' that I find.

http://www.devardiglass.com/Marvers.htm

[Emily]

What Lisi said! Your most important tools are heat, gravity, and time. You need to learn to use those, and to get a feel for how the glass moves, before you start messing too much with tools. Marvers and molds have a learning curve, and you need to have some practice under your belt so you can figure out why your beads don't look perfect right away.

Your simple spacers are much better than mine were! It seemed to take me forever to learn to make a nice symmetrical donut bead. If you look at your beads, you can get an idea of things you can work on to improve. You have a bit of a sharp end on the yellow one. That can be caused by pushing down a bit too much when you're making your initial footprint, or by your first wrap of glass being a bit angled around the mandrel, rather than forming a perfect circle. (This is not easy to do, so don't be discouraged.) Sometimes if your initial footprint is wider than you'd like, you can just add more glass and end up making a bigger bead.

Your dark bead (sorry, can't quite tell the color on my computer monitor) looks like you were tilting the mandrel while the glass was still pretty hot. See how the glass has flowed from one side toward the other? You had the tip of the mandrel tilting up or down while the glass was still hot enough to move. You can use tilting the mandrel as a technique to move glass to get the shape you want, but for a plain, balanced spacer, you need to keep the mandrel parallel to the table.

If you want to roll your bead on a (flat) marver to make a barrel/cylinder shape bead, hold your bead out of the flame for a little bit of time before starting to roll. If you put a glob of glass that's still glowing onto a marver, you'll end up with a flat sploosh. You need to let the glass firm up a bit before rolling. (Keep turning your mandrel while you're letting it cool, so it doesn't drip out of shape.) How long to let the bead cool before marvering depends on the volume of the glass and how hot it was. It may be only a second. Touch your bead to the marver while you're already rolling the mandrel, to avoid getting flat spots. You can use a marver to even out an unbalanced bead, but it's usually easier to even out the glass in the flame rather than trying to marver it into shape. The hotter your glass is, the less pressure you should use.

[Lisi]

More good newbie advice. Thanks, Emily!

[KJohn]

I will say that is a great deal from Devardi. When I bought my rollers, this is what I got also. I've been happy with them. I would love to see a disc roller from them, it is about the only thing I would still need to purchase.

[Lorraine Chandler]

Thanks Kristin, I am glad to know you like yours. I can't wait to get them and see what they send me.

I also think that learning the basics of glass like heat control, flame characteristics is something new lamp workers need to focus on but really having tools, frits, shards, murrini and other fun things can really be inspiring and there is NO reason a newbie shouldn't buy as many of these things as they desire.

It is all a learning curve when new to a hobby, art form or craft but for me personally I get bored easily and having fun things to do besides PPP all of the basics really helped and kept the creative juices and interest flowing.

So PPP the basics and then have fun with creating using all that lamp work has to offer. Many of us old timers would have been in 7th heaven to have way back when, everything that is now available!

[Ravenesque]

True in a sense, but the one listed: round, barrel, oval can all be done without (disc too but that's a bit more of a learning curve), and should be able to imo without one. As Lisi said, if I were a teacher you wouldn't touch one of these until you got it without. I think it makes for a better end result, and literally better ends (holes) to know the glass when using a bead roller.

Get a nice flat marver and practice. I would personally die without my torch marver.

I'm not knocking shapes like lentils etc that really you want a tool to help. If anything I would suggest a crunch tool as a first tool, those are always fun and especially when things just aren't going right, smash it lol! Then they end up cool for some reason.

[Lorraine Chandler]

I agree the crunch tool is one of my favs!

[Lisi]

Yep, for a beginner or someone who really believes they are "press impaired" (like me!), the crunch (or squeeze) tools are easy! The only thing you have to practice a little with is making sure your mandrel is horizontal while you press. It helps to place your press on top of a large can, like a Hunt's spaghetti sauce can, or the large can of Campbell's condensed soup. Tall like that, and you can bend down a little and look at eye level to watch your pressing action. I'm right handed, and I keep the can and press to the left side area of my torch.

[pugmommie]

Originally Posted by Emily

What Lisi said! Your most important tools are heat, gravity, and time. You need to learn to use those, and to get a feel for how the glass moves, before you start messing too much with tools. Marvers and molds have a learning curve, and you need to have some practice under your belt so you can figure out why your beads don't look perfect right away.

Your simple spacers are much better than mine were! It seemed to take me forever to learn to make a nice symmetrical donut bead. If you look at your beads, you can get an idea of things you can work on to improve. You have a bit of a sharp end on the yellow one. That can be caused by pushing down a bit too much when you're making your initial footprint, or by your first wrap of glass being a bit angled around the mandrel, rather than forming a perfect circle. (This is not easy to do, so don't be discouraged.) Sometimes if your initial footprint is wider than you'd like, you can just add more glass and end up making a bigger bead.

Your dark bead (sorry, can't quite tell the color on my computer monitor) looks like you were tilting the mandrel while the glass was still pretty hot. See how the glass has flowed from one side toward the other? You had the tip of the mandrel tilting up or down while the glass was still hot enough to move. You can use tilting the mandrel as a technique to move glass to get the shape you want, but for a plain, balanced spacer, you need to keep the mandrel parallel to the table.

If you want to roll your bead on a (flat) marver to make a barrel/cylinder shape bead, hold your bead out of the flame for a little bit of time before starting to roll. If you put a glob of glass that's still glowing onto a marver, you'll end up with a flat sploosh. You need to let the glass firm up a bit before rolling. (Keep turning your mandrel while you're letting it cool, so it doesn't drip out of shape.) How long to let the bead cool before marvering depends on the volume of the glass and how hot it was. It may be only a second. Touch your bead to the marver while you're already rolling the mandrel, to avoid getting flat spots. You can use a marver to even out an unbalanced bead, but it's usually easier to even out the glass in the flame rather than trying to marver it into shape. The hotter your glass is, the less pressure you should use.

Thanks Emily for all the great info!