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  #61  
Old 2008-08-30, 4:34am
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bgurden bgurden is offline
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i definitely looked at the regalia. it came down to the regalia and the m-15. i could not justify the extra cost for myself. lampworking is not my fulltime job. i do work in the medical profession and am not naive in regards to the concentrators. i spoke to friends who are respiratory therapists before i bought a refurbished machine. they explained to me that these machines were built to last and be durable. cant have a concentrator fail with a pt that needs 02 right? my post was not intended to slam the regalia nor its distributor at all and i apologize if you were offended.
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Last edited by bgurden; 2008-08-30 at 4:45am.
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  #62  
Old 2008-08-30, 6:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnana View Post
I agree with you all the way. I just want end user reviews of the products and no vendor input. I am tired of wading through the bickering and the "he said/she said" posts. So I decided that I will try to do just that.

I will design a webpage with a form for oxycon users to fill in info on thier setup; unit brand and model, age of unit, hrs, new/used, etc. When the form is submitted it will automatically update a database. I will then display the database results on another webpage for everyone to see. Perhaps the end-user information will afford people like you and me the opportunity to finally view end-user reviews of most, if not all, oxycons and make an informed choice about which one is right for them.

At any rate, I will give it a shot. Some input (from users, not vendors) about what goes on the form would be appreciated . Perhaps I should start a thread for this.

This is a great idea. I know of someone who was going to do something similar, but couldn't at that time figure out how to keep people from posting false reports, or one person coming back and posting again and again and again for or against a certain product. Of course this was a few years ago, so it may be that technology has changed. I definitely think it is a worthwhile endeavor. Feedback from end-users is very important, as well as actual scientific data. With both, flameworkers would be able to make a more informed decision when it comes to buying a concentrator that fits them.
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  #63  
Old 2008-08-30, 8:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
This is a great idea. I know of someone who was going to do something similar, but couldn't at that time figure out how to keep people from posting false reports, or one person coming back and posting again and again and again for or against a certain product. Of course this was a few years ago, so it may be that technology has changed. I definitely think it is a worthwhile endeavor. Feedback from end-users is very important, as well as actual scientific data. With both, flameworkers would be able to make a more informed decision when it comes to buying a concentrator that fits them.
Hi Pam
I think the only way to protect the integrity of the data is to require users to enter their LE user name. Duplicate User Names will be deleted before database is updated. Since I am creating this for LE users I don't think that should be a problem, at least I hope not. I almost have the data fields completed. So far the following data collection fields are what I've come up with for the form:

LE User Name
Brand
Model
How long owned unit?
Bought New/Used?
Cost of unit
If used, hrs on unit at time of purchase?
Avg number of hrs used weekly?
Settings used most
How much noise does unit produce?
Manufacturer Warranty
Performance issues w unit
Warranty repairs
Is lampwork full time occupation?
Soft Glass/Boro/Both
Average size bead/sculpture made w unit
Torch/torches used
Type of flame used most
Overall Satisfaction w unit
Do you recommend this brand/model?


The above has been edited to include more info to gather.

Suggestions are more than welcome, in fact invited, as far as what to add to/remove from the form.
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Last edited by bbnana; 2008-08-30 at 1:35pm. Reason: added data field
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  #64  
Old 2008-08-30, 9:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnana View Post
Hi Pam
I think the only way to protect the integrity of the data is to require users to enter their LE user name. Duplicate User Names will be deleted before database is updated. Since I am creating this for LE users I don't think that should be a problem, at least I hope not. I almost have the data fields completed. So far the following data collection fields are what I've come up with for the form:

LE User Name
Brand
Model
How long owned unit?
Bought New/Used?
If used, hrs on unit at time of purchase?
Avg number of hrs used weekly?
Settings used
Manufacturer Warranty
Performance issues w unit
Warranty repairs
Is lampwork full time occupation?
Soft Glass/Boro/Both
Torch/torches used
Type of flame used most
Overall Satisfaction w unit
Do you recommend this brand/model?


I'm sure I'm missing something. Suggestions are more than welcome, in fact invited, as far as what to add to/remove from the form.
It would take only a minute to create a new user name. What's to prevent someone from creating multiple user names and post multiple commendations? I'm no computer geek (leave that stuff to my son Jason) but even I know how to create anonymous ISP addys that can't be traced. There are even internet forums to teach you how to do it. The ease with which that can be done is precisely why some boards require you to submit a fair amount of personal information that is carefully checked by the board admin before a new registry is accepted.

I think what you propose is a great idea, but there's no way for you (or the board admin here) to tell if 10 favourable commendations came from 10 different oxycon owners, or just one trying to promote their equipment.
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  #65  
Old 2008-08-30, 10:50am
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Tee -

FWIW I thought I'd mention another possible question to add to your survey. Some people seem interested in how much noise a concentrator produces while running.
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  #66  
Old 2008-08-30, 11:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgurden View Post
i definitely looked at the regalia. it came down to the regalia and the m-15. i could not justify the extra cost for myself. lampworking is not my fulltime job. i do work in the medical profession and am not naive in regards to the concentrators. i spoke to friends who are respiratory therapists before i bought a refurbished machine. they explained to me that these machines were built to last and be durable. cant have a concentrator fail with a pt that needs 02 right? my post was not intended to slam the regalia nor its distributor at all and i apologize if you were offended.
Apology accepted. And please accept my apologies if I have offended you.

It has not been my intent to "slam" the competition, either. My intent all along has been to raise awareness and educate people about lampwork set-ups. What you just posted here is actually part of why there is a need for it. It appears that you are under the impression that either the M-15 is simply a reconditioned medical unit or that something, even when grossly modified, always retains the original integrity built into it by the original manufacturer. The part I'm getting this from is, "they explained to me that these machines were built to last and be durable. cant have a concentrator fail with a pt that needs 02 right?"

Concentrators do have to be durable, and, as in most things in life, some brands tend to outlast others. Machines can be reconitioned to perform like new, but even so, they are not new and not all machines are reconditioned to the point where they are again acceptable for medical use. Once something has been modified, however, it no longer has the same integrity (for lack of a better word) that the original manufacturer built into it.

I am going to try to say the following as best I can - just keeping to facts of the matter, not opinion. The M-15 is not simply a reconditioned medical unit. It once was a medical unit, and I think that the base unit it is built on is relevant, but regardless, it has been modified to do things that the original manufacturer never intended for it to do.

As with all things, there are benfits and limitations and this is no exception. I feel that as long as people understand what they are really getting and what they can realistically expect, that their decision is based at least in part on solid information and facts rather than just emotion, then I feel that they have made an educated decision. And that is good! Even if that decision does not benefit me financially, it still benefits me because it is benefitting my community - people are thinking and are educating themselves.

There is a difference in quality and integrity between machines - between the Regalia and the M-15, between the M-15 and the unmodified reconditioned units, between the Regalia and the unmodified reconditioned units, and even among the various unmodified reconditioned units, themselves and between the various other new machines out there. There are differences and I believe that it benefits the concentrator-interested members of the lampworking community to be aware and to be educated on the various aspects of their choices. There are also going to be differences in how the various machines perform under various conditions and usage. Further, what is satisfactory to one user may not be satisfactory to another. Of course the personal satisfaction testimonial is part of the picture, but it should not be the sole factor when rendering a decision. Scientific data, data that can be measured/verified by anyone with the right tools, is an objective way to measure performance. Data is data, regardless of who collects it. This is why I started my analyzer project and why I am not measuring all the machines, myself.

There will always be people who will buy equipment based on quality and work around the cost. There will always be people who will buy equipment based on cost and work around the quality. That's just a fact of life and I try to help people with their decisions based on their needs and philosophy every day. I don't promote one philosophy over the other. ETA: Just to clarify, I do have a preference in philosposhies, but when someone tells me their needs and their situation, I work with them and don't push one philosophy over the other.

I really do hope that you are happy with your purchase (it sounds like you are) and go on to make some really great glass and have fun for a very long time without any problems whatsoever with your equipment.
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Last edited by kbinkster; 2008-08-31 at 9:18am.
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  #67  
Old 2008-08-30, 12:17pm
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Theresa, perhaps adding a section with average size of beads (glass objects) created while using the concentrator might give some more information. And do you want to add a "cost of unit" question?
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  #68  
Old 2008-08-30, 1:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbless View Post
Tee -

FWIW I thought I'd mention another possible question to add to your survey. Some people seem interested in how much noise a concentrator produces while running.
I'll add a question about noise. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady View Post
It would take only a minute to create a new user name. What's to prevent someone from creating multiple user names and post multiple commendations? I'm no computer geek (leave that stuff to my son Jason) but even I know how to create anonymous ISP addys that can't be traced. There are even internet forums to teach you how to do it. The ease with which that can be done is precisely why some boards require you to submit a fair amount of personal information that is carefully checked by the board admin before a new registry is accepted.

I think what you propose is a great idea, but there's no way for you (or the board admin here) to tell if 10 favourable commendations came from 10 different oxycon owners, or just one trying to promote their equipment.
Hi Dennis, I have thought about how easy it is to create a new user. There really isn't a foolproof way to keep out people who want to try and discredit the data. At least with requiring the LE user names anyone looking at the database can easily see the number of posts an LE member has and decide if they want to give that particular review any weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Theresa, perhaps adding a section with average size of beads (glass objects) created while using the concentrator might give some more information. And do you want to add a "cost of unit" question?
Hi Pam, thank you for your input. I'll add these two questions to the database.
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  #69  
Old 2008-08-30, 2:35pm
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I think the way it works now, albeit frequently acrimonious, works reasonably well. Those that are willing to offer an opinion will do so and those reading those opinions can consider the source and decide what credibity to grant. I don't think a registry of commendations would work any better and could easily be viewed with enough skepticism as to be commonly considered valueless.

I think that is the best we'll have until someone that is generally perceived as professionally neutral (with no dog in the fight) will do comparison studies.
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  #70  
Old 2008-08-30, 3:08pm
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Theresa, if you would like the LE participants of my project to also contribute to your's, I'll be happy to point them your way.
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  #71  
Old 2008-08-30, 3:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady View Post
I think the way it works now, albeit frequently acrimonious, works reasonably well. Those that are willing to offer an opinion will do so and those reading those opinions can consider the source and decide what credibity to grant. I don't think a registry of commendations would work any better and could easily be viewed with enough skepticism as to be commonly considered valueless.

I think that is the best we'll have until someone that is generally perceived as professionally neutral (with no dog in the fight) will do comparison studies.
Well as a nurse with a research back ground I would LOVE to test the concentrator.
I could set up a controlled study in my workshop and do have access to equipment to measure the actual oxygen output of the devices.
There are several local lamp workers that I am sure would help with the data collection for the research project.
Now I need all the distributors to each send me a torch and a concentrator.

Then I can get to work on my Research project!
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  #72  
Old 2008-09-01, 11:19am
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Default Oxycon USER REVIEWS wanted - new thread

I have created the webpage and the database to collect and display oxycon user reviews.
View the thread here.
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  #73  
Old 2008-09-03, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnana View Post
I have created the webpage and the database to collect and display oxycon user reviews.
View the thread here.

I have been away for a while....all I can say is Great WORK and effort. (If I could have mustered the time and energy - this is something I would have like to do) I am only sooo HAPPY that you have taken this on, and applaud your efforts for taking this idea and DOING something with it

The site looks great. If I could make a suggestion, it would be to enable not only LE'ers but the multitude of Glass workers who use concentrators to use it as well. The link could be posted on the other popular glass forums out there. Thus enabling a broader spectrum of reviews, where there may not be biased alliances to one specific brand of concentrator.

As for making/posting multiple reviews under various names, I am sure this will happen, since it has already been mentioned in this thread....I guess that's were we have to sift through the information being supplied and make our own decisions. I only wonder if people and vendors are really that hard up to spend time making new users, hiding IP's, etc, etc, to falsify a database for the sole purpose of trafficking sales to there specific brand of concentrator. I would like to believe that people/vendors have better things to do....in the end this is an idea made to share information with one another about a "tool of the trade", not about an idea to sell any one specific "brand" of tool.
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  #74  
Old 2008-09-04, 1:16pm
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In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired I'm so disgusted.
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  #75  
Old 2008-09-04, 5:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiB View Post
In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired I'm so disgusted.
i just saw this thread on a new posting by a satisfied customer for UO. the next thread indicated that you were this dissatisfied customer. i am confused as it appears that you found this thread?
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  #76  
Old 2008-09-04, 7:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherena View Post
I have been away for a while....all I can say is Great WORK and effort. (If I could have mustered the time and energy - this is something I would have like to do) I am only sooo HAPPY that you have taken this on, and applaud your efforts for taking this idea and DOING something with it

The site looks great. If I could make a suggestion, it would be to enable not only LE'ers but the multitude of Glass workers who use concentrators to use it as well. The link could be posted on the other popular glass forums out there. Thus enabling a broader spectrum of reviews, where there may not be biased alliances to one specific brand of concentrator.

As for making/posting multiple reviews under various names, I am sure this will happen, since it has already been mentioned in this thread....I guess that's were we have to sift through the information being supplied and make our own decisions. I only wonder if people and vendors are really that hard up to spend time making new users, hiding IP's, etc, etc, to falsify a database for the sole purpose of trafficking sales to there specific brand of concentrator. I would like to believe that people/vendors have better things to do....in the end this is an idea made to share information with one another about a "tool of the trade", not about an idea to sell any one specific "brand" of tool.
Thanks Sherena. I do think that there are some out there who may view the database as an avenue for free advertising. I think that by having the users enter their LE User Names will help viewers sort through the reviews by allowing them to see who and what is real and what is not.

Regarding non-LE member reviews; I think I will add another column for non-LE members to add their reviews too. The more reviews the better.
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  #77  
Old 2008-09-05, 8:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiB View Post
In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired I'm so disgusted.
Hi Kristi, I am curious. Why have'nt you sent the tornado back for repair? I would be happy to test, repair and return. I will also pay for shipping both ways. jack
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  #78  
Old 2008-09-07, 5:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiB View Post
In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired I'm so disgusted.
Hey Kristi. I talked to Jul yesterday. She told me that she had promised you a loaner M15. This is new to me but a cool idea. I will send out an M15 tomorrow. But this one wont be a loaner, you can keep it. The Tornado should fit in the same box. I will send a call tag in the box with the M15 for the Tornado. I will repair it and update it and send it back. I am sorry for your trouble. jack
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  #79  
Old 2008-09-08, 9:32am
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Hi Jack,

I've been away at Glass Stock and then to a friends to torch so I missed your reply. Thank you for checking into it! I was going to call today and ask about it again. I really just wanted to get the tornado working correctly and I am trying to get product ready for an upcoming show, thus the replacement M15 request.

Yours is the first experience I've had with a concentrator. I've never owned one before and had no idea how they were supposed to perform. But from other lampworkers that have visited my studio (aka garage) they told me it wasn't working correctly and then shortly after it bit the dust. I have a mini cc and a minor and since day one, the tornado will barely run both torches. As I understand it, that shouldn't be the case, correct??

Thank you again for taking care of this problem! I usually don't post like this but I was getting really frustrated!!


Thank you again
Kristi
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  #80  
Old 2008-09-08, 3:32pm
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Well as a nurse with a research back ground I would LOVE to test the concentrator.
I could set up a controlled study in my workshop and do have access to equipment to measure the actual oxygen output of the devices.
There are several local lamp workers that I am sure would help with the data collection for the research project.
Now I need all the distributors to each send me a torch and a concentrator.

Then I can get to work on my Research project!
I'll do it, I'm neutral and have lots of time.
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  #81  
Old 2008-10-04, 7:04pm
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We sent our hurricane back for repairs in June, no sign of it yet. Just sent you a pm Jack. Would love to hear from you!
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  #82  
Old 2008-10-04, 7:55pm
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Originally Posted by BlackRiverBeads View Post
We sent our hurricane back for repairs in June, no sign of it yet. Just sent you a pm Jack. Would love to hear from you!
Hey James, I emailed you. I will send M15s as you requested. I am so sorry that this had been dragged out like this. jack
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  #83  
Old 2008-10-13, 10:23am
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Elizabeth Beads Elizabeth Beads is offline
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I had my Respironics M15 from May 2008 until about 2 weeks ago (4 months or so), but it was performing more and more poorly until I was fighting to even melt cane. I took it to a medical supply outlet and they tested it and said there was zero oxygen flow.

I bought it from ABR who referred me to UO who said to ship it back. I sent it the same day, UPS, Monday 9/29, 2 weeks ago today, paid $47 to have UPS box and ship it. Got a call Thursday, 10/2, that it had arrived and was beyond repair and a replacement would be sent "early next week." Waited every day last week for UPS, hoping to have it by this past weeekend. Nothing. Called on Friday, 10/10, and left 2 messages asking for a tracking number and estimated time of arrival (no return call).

Called this morning and got someone who didn't know the status but said my busted machine was still sitting right there. So now I am wondering if my replacement was shipped out. I'm supposed to get a call back tomorrow, but it's now been 2 weekends that I've had no oxygen and I'm not happy about that.

Maybe my oxycon will arrive today or maybe if it hasn't been sent yet, it will be sent priority tomorrow so I will have it by the coming weekend.

Jack, if you are reading, please send me a pm and give me a status update.

Thanks,

Liz Bunn
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  #84  
Old 2008-10-13, 3:38pm
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Originally Posted by erose View Post
I had my Respironics M15 from May 2008 until about 2 weeks ago (4 months or so), but it was performing more and more poorly until I was fighting to even melt cane. I took it to a medical supply outlet and they tested it and said there was zero oxygen flow.

I bought it from ABR who referred me to UO who said to ship it back. I sent it the same day, UPS, Monday 9/29, 2 weeks ago today, paid $47 to have UPS box and ship it. Got a call Thursday, 10/2, that it had arrived and was beyond repair and a replacement would be sent "early next week." Waited every day last week for UPS, hoping to have it by this past weeekend. Nothing. Called on Friday, 10/10, and left 2 messages asking for a tracking number and estimated time of arrival (no return call).

Called this morning and got someone who didn't know the status but said my busted machine was still sitting right there. So now I am wondering if my replacement was shipped out. I'm supposed to get a call back tomorrow, but it's now been 2 weekends that I've had no oxygen and I'm not happy about that.

Maybe my oxycon will arrive today or maybe if it hasn't been sent yet, it will be sent priority tomorrow so I will have it by the coming weekend.

Jack, if you are reading, please send me a pm and give me a status update.

Thanks,

Liz Bunn
Hey Liz, it was me who spoke with you today. Like I explained to you, Jul had the day off today, so I dont know if anything was shipped. I did tell you that the unit was damaged beyond any repair. Im sure that a complete new unit will be required to replace your's with. We cannot even save the sieve bed which is what we need to build another unit. I will make sure an M15 will be sent to you at the soonest possible. I will not be able to sent it priority or overnight. That would cost about 300.00. I think maybe myself and my crew should be a little more realistic when giving a projected completion date. We are almost always running at least two weeks behind on everything. I am sorry for your wait. I will also refund your shipping to me. jack
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  #85  
Old 2008-10-14, 10:22am
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Elizabeth Beads Elizabeth Beads is offline
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Jack - I appreciate your response and offer to refund my shipping, and, as we talked about today on the phone, you will send my replacement out this week. UPS had mine to you in 3 days so I'm sure the replacement will get here just as quickly.

Although my oxycon was not functioning when I sent it back, it was not damaged beyond repair, at least externally. I paid for UPS to pack it as well as ship it and I gave them the value of $600 (the amount I paid ABR). As I offered, if you will send me photos of the machine in the condition it arrived back to you, I will take them to the UPS Store that packed and shipped it, along with my receipt, and file a claim. I understand the sender has the right to file a claim. I will do my best to make sure you are compensated for any damage done by UPS.

Again, thanks for your promise today to get a replacement sent out this week. I have a lot of orders to fill right now, and being without oxygen leaves me in a bit of a jam. I know you are trying your best to provide good service and I know you understand my frustration at being told 2 weeks ago, that it would go out early last week, and then not being able to get a status update until today. I really appreciate that you are getting this straightened out now.

Thanks!

Liz
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  #86  
Old 2008-10-20, 12:06pm
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Elizabeth Beads Elizabeth Beads is offline
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Hey Jack -- If you are reading, I've been trying to reach you by phone and e-mail. I know my replacement concentrator did not go out last week as promised because as of Friday I was told that you wanted to test it for 24 hours, so it was promised to go out today. I am looking for confirmation that it is on its way and a tracking number please.

I am in a jam without oxygen, with orders to fill and the holidays coming. I work outside the lampwork studio full time, so weekends are my prime time to make beads. I've been without oxygen for 3 weekends now. I would really like to have it this week.

Thanks for understanding.

Liz
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  #87  
Old 2008-10-20, 3:34pm
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Originally Posted by oxydoc View Post
Hey Kristi. I talked to Jul yesterday. She told me that she had promised you a loaner M15. This is new to me but a cool idea. I will send out an M15 tomorrow. But this one wont be a loaner, you can keep it. The Tornado should fit in the same box. I will send a call tag in the box with the M15 for the Tornado. I will repair it and update it and send it back. I am sorry for your trouble. jack
..
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  #88  
Old 2008-10-20, 8:38pm
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So what happened KristiB? Did you get your concentrator? No one at UO answered the phone today. I am way frustrated. I need my Oxy!
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  #89  
Old 2008-10-22, 8:43pm
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Elizabeth Beads Elizabeth Beads is offline
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Well, I am so excited. My new oxycon is in transit! Thanks, Unlimited Oxygen! I totally can't wait to torch with an oxidation flame. I just know my beads will be amazing. Lol!
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