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  #91  
Old 2009-11-19, 12:01pm
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Hayley Hayley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisi View Post
So far, I've experimented with just a few of the colors and I've wrote down some notes for future reference. I am proceeding with caution, because I have a very large customer base and like all the rest of you, still can't afford to have disasters down the road with cracked beads and very upset customers.
Lisi - this is exactly why I posted my experience with Devardi so that people like yourself who do sell your beads would proceed with caution. As you so eloquently stated, all of us have worked very hard to build our reputation and we simply "can't afford to have disasters down the road with cracked beads and very upset customers."

As for other posts directed at me, I have made it my personal practice to not answer anyone who does not have a name and link(s) to his/her work. My sincere apologies if this offends anyone.
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  #92  
Old 2009-11-19, 12:14pm
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Unfortunately Haley, your experience with Devardi was almost a year ago according to the pics you posted. IMHO it has improved greatly since then.

Jack
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  #93  
Old 2009-11-19, 12:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
Lisi - this is exactly why I posted my experience with Devardi so that people like yourself who do sell your beads would proceed with caution. As you so eloquently stated, all of us have worked very hard to build our reputation and we simply "can't afford to have disasters down the road with cracked beads and very upset customers."

As for other posts directed at me, I have made it my personal practice to not answer anyone who does not have a name and link(s) to his/her work. My sincere apologies if this offends anyone.
I'm probably the only one doing this, and I have my reasons for it. If you knew my name it would make no difference. I'm a nobody. I just work glass and sell locally. I have no interest in having my name bandied about the internet, and since I don't sell online, I don't take pics of most of my work.

I think it's sad you won't reply to someone without them posting a resume.
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  #94  
Old 2009-11-19, 12:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drafly View Post
Jack, Don't you know? All Devardi Glass beads will crack in 2012 and that will be the cause of the world coming to an end! Scary!
Jim
It's exactly this type of attitude that turned me off of ever trying Devardi. From the very beginning, the people who chose to import and sale this glass in the states, you, and the various other Devardi plugs have done nothing but insult those who asked questions, those who were more than willing to give it a try, but reported cracking issues. And it goes on and on. Those of you who so vehemently defend this glass in the insulting manner that you do are NOT doing this company ANY favors. PERIOD!

Just because some people are reporting no cracking issues, DOES NOT discount the fact that others ARE having cracking issues. Hayley gave the glass a fair try, she reported her experience with it honestly, respectfully and professionally, and if the Devardi folks don't like it, too bad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemagic View Post
Squid, sorry, I didn’t realize you are a glass chemist and know everything there is to know about this glass. How stupid of me to think that I could go by what the Devardi people say on the site, and by my own experience. It is just ridiculous of me to think that the chemical composition of glass could change if you heat the snot out of it, which could lead to problems. I should just go by your reasoning, even though you likely have never used this glass.
Again, insulting and immature!

Quote:
And Hayley, if you don’t have the time to learn how to use the glass properly, why did you buy it? And why are you spending all this time posting your long spiel about how much trouble it causes if your time is so valuable? And why are so many other people using the glass without the problems you experience? It all sounds fishy, just like it did last year when you guys jumped on the Devardi people right from the start and tried to hurt them anyway you could.
And yes, I can read what went on last year without signing up. What a brilliant summation that was.
Again, no one "jumped" the Devardi people until the Devardi people started insulting THEM! I was also here to witness what went on last year. I was here and witnessed how it happened, at the time it happened, and who caused it to happen. Not after the Devardi people deleted their instigating, insulting posts, thereby leaving the thread looking like nothing but a bunch of disgruntled lampworkers bitching into thin air.

Quote:
This thread was created for one purpose and one purpose only, to hurt the Devardi People. You were upset when this glass hit the market a year ago and now you’re upset because they are selling so much glass when other glass vendors are way down in sales. But it isn’t going to do any good. Too many people love the glass, obviously. And too many people see right through what you are doing, just like they did a year ago and bought the glass despite your false insistence that it isn’t good glass.
This thread was created for one purpose and one purpose only. For the OP to share her experience and frustration with a glass she was willing to give a fair chance. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm sick to death of hearing these stupid conspiracy theories about lampworkers and other glass suppliers trying to sabotage Devardi. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

Every report about Devardi glass is a report. Plain and simple! Whether it is for or against Devardi doesn't matter. I'm sick of seeing people being attacked by these Devardi plugs because their experience and report of the glass isn't to their advantage. And you have the AUDACITY to say that "too many people see right through what you are doing", to someone else????

Insulting anyone and everyone who has less than positive things to say about Devardi glass does not PROVE the glass is good. What it proves is that the manufacturer, supplier and Devardi plugs have absolutely no respect or integrity, and THAT speaks loud and clear as the integrity and respectability of the glass itself.

People who lack a complete respect towards their potential customers will NEVER care about the integrity of their own products. Because if they did, like so many other glass manufacturers before them, they would have worked with their target consumer rather than insult and alienate them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverRiverJewelry View Post
Because learning is fun. And the colors are worth it.

My understanding is Lauscha Super Clear doesn't play well with other colors. I have read thread after thread of the other brands that have issues of incompatibility. Seems to me, no matter what you use and how well its supposed to work, you will always have the chance that something will not like to play nice with something else. And it may work fine for one person and not for the other for whatever reason. If you are willing to figure it out it may be worth it. If you aren't willing to take the time to figure it out then go with what you are comfortable with. I have beads encased with the Lauscha Super Clear that cracked a month after I made them. Doesn't mean that I am not willing to try it again and figure out what went wrong.
It is absolutely true that some people had trouble with Lauscha clear. It is also true that other batches of 104 glass have been reported shocky, etc.

As some of the Devardi defenders have so graciously pointed out, you can find thread after thread after thread of people reporting problems with certain colors, certain batches, etc.

With one HUGE, MAJOR difference! The manufacturers, suppliers, and people who had had no problems with it, DID NOT attack those complaining about it. They discussed it, they reported it, they sought to improve it, but AT NO TIME did they EVER insult those who complained about it.

THEREIN lies the difference! THEREIN lies the reason these companies have the loyalty of their customers.

This is where Devardi and their cohorts went the most wrong. If they had handled things differently, NONE of this would be happening, over and over and over again.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again, they are incapable of learning from their own mistakes. And they are their own worst enemy!
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  #95  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:09pm
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Amen, Deb. That, and some... inconsistencies... in the seller's claims about the glass.
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  #96  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:10pm
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  #97  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:12pm
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I'm a nobody too. You claim to be so concerend about us "newbies "making the right choices and decisions. Mostly what I've gotten out of this thread so far is that I should give up and not torch anymore, because I could destroy the "art" of glass beadmaking by using Devardiglass. Making new people feel like crap isn't helping anybody. I don't sell my beads as I am new and just learning, I aso could not contact Haley to ask for help or questions because I'm without a website. Yet She "cares" about me making informed decisions about the glass I choose???? Strange way to care about people.
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  #98  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemagic View Post
Squid, sorry, I didn’t realize you are a glass chemist and know everything there is to know about this glass. How stupid of me to think that I could go by what the Devardi people say on the site, and by my own experience. It is just ridiculous of me to think that the chemical composition of glass could change if you heat the snot out of it, which could lead to problems. I should just go by your reasoning, even though you likely have never used this glass.

And Hayley, if you don’t have the time to learn how to use the glass properly, why did you buy it? And why are you spending all this time posting your long spiel about how much trouble it causes if your time is so valuable? And why are so many other people using the glass without the problems you experience? It all sounds fishy, just like it did last year when you guys jumped on the Devardi people right from the start and tried to hurt them anyway you could.

And yes, I can read what went on last year without signing up. What a brilliant summation that was.

This thread was created for one purpose and one purpose only, to hurt the Devardi People. You were upset when this glass hit the market a year ago and now you’re upset because they are selling so much glass when other glass vendors are way down in sales. But it isn’t going to do any good. Too many people love the glass, obviously. And too many people see right through what you are doing, just like they did a year ago and bought the glass despite your false insistence that it isn’t good glass.
Gosh, I guess that of all the glass in the world that lampworkers use somehow ONLY Devardi glass gets it's COE changed when flameworked. Huh, that is amazing.

It's not my reasoning - it's the collective reasoning of the experience of many lampworkers.

I don't give a flying fuck if half the lampworkers in the world want to use Devardi. I have not made a single negative comment about the glass or the people selling it in this thread - my only comments have been related to a completely asinine assertion that overheating the glass in the flame causes cracking. It's real convenient to be able to blame something that no one can prove every time someone posts about their beads cracking.

If you really expect people to believe that BS, you should be able to supply the temp at which this happens. Since you seem to believe that the information on the Devardi site is coming from a glass chemist, surely this brilliant person would be able to provide that info, huh?

I won't hold my breath waiting.
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  #99  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baby firefly View Post
I'm a nobody too. You claim to be so concerend about us "newbies "making the right choices and decisions. Mostly what I've gotten out of this thread so far is that I should give up and not torch anymore, because I could destroy the "art" of glass beadmaking by using Devardiglass. Making new people feel like crap isn't helping anybody. I don't sell my beads as I am new and just learning, I aso could not contact Haley to ask for help or questions because I'm without a website. Yet She "cares" about me making informed decisions about the glass I choose???? Strange way to care about people.
In a forum, where owners of companies can post as a consumer giving rave reviews, it is not uncaring, nor is it unwise, to wish to know with whom you are conversing. Further, I fail to see where anything anyone has "said" would make a newbie feel like crap. No one can make you feel inferior without your permission.
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  #100  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baby firefly View Post
I'm a nobody too. You claim to be so concerend about us "newbies "making the right choices and decisions. Mostly what I've gotten out of this thread so far is that I should give up and not torch anymore, because I could destroy the "art" of glass beadmaking by using Devardiglass. Making new people feel like crap isn't helping anybody. I don't sell my beads as I am new and just learning, I aso could not contact Haley to ask for help or questions because I'm without a website. Yet She "cares" about me making informed decisions about the glass I choose???? Strange way to care about people.
Are you serious?

So let me get this straight. You wanted to contact Hayley to ask her for help and to ask her questions. Why would you do that? Could it be because you know she's a well respected member of the glass community? Could it be because you love her work, know she has a lot of experience and knew she could help you?

And then you say you couldn't contact her because you were "without a website" whatever that means, and somehow that is her fault? And she must not care about newbies and helping them make informed decisions because you didn't know how to contact her?

And since you are using Devardi, which Hayley has tested and reported problems with, somehow that translates, in your head, that Hayley is insulting you and all newbies personally and trying to make you feel like crap?

Unbelievable!
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  #101  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:29pm
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Deb, That comment was made by me, "only" to lightened things up on this thread. I saw where it was headed.
As far as I was concerned, Haley's report on Devardi glass was welcomed. The only thing I ever questioned was why others stated they had used the identical same glass and same silver glass and "Never" had any problems whatsoever. I also critized her for taking the same posts about her results to other forums, without further testing. I don't think that is out of line. You might, or she might, but I do not.
As far as the Devardi people go, they have shown every respect possible to customers and potential customers.
And, talking about attitudes and immaturity, in the earlier Devardi posts, we tried to post pics. of the beads and discuss the glass. It was impossible! Everyone was verbally assaulted. It was not about the glass, in several cases. Some had other adjendas.
Finally, a new thread had to be created, because of all the arguments. Many were newbies, just posting and riding the coat tails of some of the more experienced lampworkers. They were there for the fun of it all, and to cheer their friend on.
I can honestly tell you. I know Daniel and Natasha now. I respect them very much.
The business is striving. The glass shipment have been increased constantly. Devardi glass is here to stay. Live with it!
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  #102  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:30pm
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"I'm sick to death of hearing these stupid conspiracy theories about lampworkers and other glass suppliers trying to sabotage Devardi. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard."

Not according to the folks on the Torch Bugs website. Go there and look at "Lampworking: COE 104 glass" and read the thread called "!!!DEVARDI!!!. It's only 37 PAGES LONG. That should give you some idea of the kind of people they are. Some of the "most respected" even call it "the D word". Give me a break. There's even another glass supplier posting insulting comments!

Ludicrous... I think not. Again, it's just MHO.

Jack
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  #103  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:36pm
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All this conspiracy talk...and no Mel Gibson (before he went off the edge). It's just not right.
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  #104  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:42pm
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Good one!
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  #105  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drafly View Post
Deb, That comment was made by me, "only" to lightened things up on this thread. I saw where it was headed.
As far as I was concerned, Haley's report on Devardi glass was welcomed. The only thing I ever questioned was why others stated they had used the identical same glass and same silver glass and "Never" had any problems whatsoever. I also critized her for taking the same posts about her results to other forums, without further testing. I don't think that is out of line. You might, or she might, but I do not.
Her post was accurate, honest and relevant no matter where or how many times she posted it. It doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not.


Quote:
As far as the Devardi people go, they have shown every respect possible to customers and potential customers.
Not from where I was sitting.

Quote:
And, talking about attitudes and immaturity, in the earlier Devardi posts, we tried to post pics. of the beads and discuss the glass. It was impossible! Everyone was verbally assaulted. It was not about the glass, in several cases. Some had other adjendas.
The verbal assaults that came out in the original thread went both ways and was fueled by Daniels and a couple of others behavior towards people who were simply asking questions about the glass. It only deteriorated after that and continues to do so. Again, the very same questions that have been asked of every single glass manufacturer and/or supplier that has ever come on the scene. Devardi was not singled out, nor was anyone trying to sabotage their business. I think it's a crying shame that Devardi didn't handle themselves better. It could have went a long way towards gaining the respect of the community no matter the problems with the glass.

Quote:
Finally, a new thread had to be created, because of all the arguments. Many were newbies, just posting and riding the coat tails of some of the more experienced lampworkers. They were there for the fun of it all, and to cheer their friend on.
And you'll also notice that no one crashed that new fun thread with negativity. Because that wasn't anyone's intention.

Quote:
I can honestly tell you. I know Daniel and Natasha now. I respect them very much.
The business is striving. The glass shipment have been increased constantly. Devardi glass is here to stay. Live with it!
Jim Clark
First of all, and I'll repeat it again, I, nor anyone else is out to sabotage their business. If the business is thriving I say, good for them. It does not bother me in the least if they are successful.

Second, again repeating myself, I would have a great deal more respect for what you had to say had you not inserted "Live with it!" at the end.

Those 3 short words just shot your opinion and your whole point all to hell in my opinion.

And it's that attitude, the point that I've been trying to hammer into you and the Devardi people from the beginning, that does more harm than good. So, if you think you're helping them, you're not. Leaving those 3 little words out of it, would have made a whole world of difference in how you and The Devardi people are perceived.
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  #106  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:46pm
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My point about the Lauscha clear cracking was actually to point out that if I go by certain posts in this thread, its not to be trusted and I could never sell any beads made with Lauscha clear because it may, at some point in the future, crack. How many people out there use this glass regularly and sell it to their customers? I am not being argumentative, I am just pointing out that with that kind of reasoning none of us could ever use any glass that is out there because it some of it may crack in the future. How do we know what will and won't? Do we hold all of our beads for x amount of time before selling?

And I don't think that I was attacking anyone.

Let me ask you this. There is a perfectly civil thread going on about Devardi and its pros and cons, and so far the discussions seem to be open and honest, with people saying that yes there are certain issues and other people saying, hey this worked for me, maybe that is the solution for that issue etc. Why was this question not posted over in that thread that is clearly intended to address that type of issue with this glass?
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  #107  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J&M View Post
"I'm sick to death of hearing these stupid conspiracy theories about lampworkers and other glass suppliers trying to sabotage Devardi. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard."

Not according to the folks on the Torch Bugs website. Go there and look at "Lampworking: COE 104 glass" and read the thread called "!!!DEVARDI!!!. It's only 37 PAGES LONG. That should give you some idea of the kind of people they are. Some of the "most respected" even call it "the D word". Give me a break. There's even another glass supplier posting insulting comments!

Ludicrous... I think not. Again, it's just MHO.

Jack
Well, seeing as how I own the Torcbugs website, I have read the Devardi thread. And I'd like to point out, AGAIN, that that thread was started after the initial thread here on LE. After the Devardi people had insulted a bunch of people. They weren't acting out against Devardi. They were REACTING to Devardi. There's a world of difference.
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  #108  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:52pm
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Originally Posted by SilverRiverJewelry View Post
Why was this question not posted over in that thread that is clearly intended to address that type of issue with this glass?
Perhaps because of the length of that thread, and starting another thread, for one specific problem, was considered to be more effective by the OP.
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  #109  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:53pm
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Originally Posted by SilverRiverJewelry View Post
My point about the Lauscha clear cracking was actually to point out that if I go by certain posts in this thread, its not to be trusted and I could never sell any beads made with Lauscha clear because it may, at some point in the future, crack. How many people out there use this glass regularly and sell it to their customers? I am not being argumentative, I am just pointing out that with that kind of reasoning none of us could ever use any glass that is out there because it some of it may crack in the future. How do we know what will and won't? Do we hold all of our beads for x amount of time before selling?

And I don't think that I was attacking anyone.

Let me ask you this. There is a perfectly civil thread going on about Devardi and its pros and cons, and so far the discussions seem to be open and honest, with people saying that yes there are certain issues and other people saying, hey this worked for me, maybe that is the solution for that issue etc. Why was this question not posted over in that thread that is clearly intended to address that type of issue with this glass?
And my point was, it's all about how the manufacturers, suppliers, supporters etc. of said glass behave towards those who have complaints about their glass. Not all about the glass itself.
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  #110  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:58pm
likes to make glass stuff likes to make glass stuff is offline
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Originally Posted by squid View Post
Gosh, I guess that of all the glass in the world that lampworkers use somehow ONLY Devardi glass gets it's COE changed when flameworked. Huh, that is amazing.

It's not my reasoning - it's the collective reasoning of the experience of many lampworkers.

I don't give a flying fuck if half the lampworkers in the world want to use Devardi. I have not made a single negative comment about the glass or the people selling it in this thread - my only comments have been related to a completely asinine assertion that overheating the glass in the flame causes cracking. It's real convenient to be able to blame something that no one can prove every time someone posts about their beads cracking.

If you really expect people to believe that BS, you should be able to supply the temp at which this happens. Since you seem to believe that the information on the Devardi site is coming from a glass chemist, surely this brilliant person would be able to provide that info, huh?

I won't hold my breath waiting.
From Bullseye's site:

"Certain glasses – reds, yellows and oranges in particular – have a tendency to shift their internal chemistry when fired for extended times, more than once, or to temperatures higher than a typical full fuse (1450 – 1500F). They may, under these conditions, become incompatible. With these glasses, the test is therefore performed (on the same chip) three times."

http://www.bullseyeglass.com/weblog/...se-of-the-fun/

I'd think we could use the temperature range as a cause for incompatibility, since they do. It's my understanding that flowing glass is in that range.

I'm not saying I go for the cool glass working prevents cracking theory, as I haven't experienced it, but if BE says it, doesn't it make it a possibility?

And they say over and over again that COE and compatibility aren't as simple as matching the numbers.
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  #111  
Old 2009-11-19, 1:59pm
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J&M J&M is offline
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Originally Posted by Frogsongstudio View Post
Well, seeing as how I own the Torcbugs website, I have read the Devardi thread. And I'd like to point out, AGAIN, that that thread was started after the initial thread here on LE. After the Devardi people had insulted a bunch of people. They weren't acting out against Devardi. They were REACTING to Devardi. There's a world of difference.
I know you own that site. You should go read it again and see all of the nonsense that was written by your members. Talk about insults! Geez. They're the same ones who attacked Natasha so bad that her husband had to come on the LE thread to defend her. Anyone would do the same for their spouse. This thread, just like the one months ago is starting to get WAY out of hand. I suggest that everyone go and read the T.B. thread and make your own conclusions. That's all.

Jack
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  #112  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:01pm
Drafly Drafly is offline
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Nothing will be accompolished by reliving the old Devardi thread. I do find it amusing, however, the ones that post and seem to think they are the authorities of "right and wrong" on this thread, are the very ones that have never tried this glass. Is it for the sake of argument, or Internet debate? I, truly, am interested to know. Most of them only give opinions, and rant on with their long posts, but have contributed nothing to the thread.
I, for one, want to hear any results concerning glass, any glass. I want to hear the good, as well as the bad, about Devardi glass. I think that is what most of us are here for. Constructive criticism is welcomed. We will learn from it. I hate to see old topics from this thread revived. I think it would be more constructive to move on. Just my humble opinion.
Jim
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  #113  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:06pm
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Kalera Kalera is offline
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Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff View Post
From Bullseye's site:

"Certain glasses – reds, yellows and oranges in particular – have a tendency to shift their internal chemistry when fired for extended times, more than once, or to temperatures higher than a typical full fuse (1450 – 1500F). They may, under these conditions, become incompatible. With these glasses, the test is therefore performed (on the same chip) three times."

http://www.bullseyeglass.com/weblog/...se-of-the-fun/

I'd think we could use the temperature range as a cause for incompatibility, since they do. It's my understanding that flowing glass is in that range.

I'm not saying I go for the cool glass working prevents cracking theory, as I haven't experienced it, but if BE says it, doesn't it make it a possibility?

And they say over and over again that COE and compatibility aren't as simple as matching the numbers.
That is a caution for people doing multiple, extended or high kiln firings of the same piece repeatedly. It has never been an issue with flameworked BE.
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  #114  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:07pm
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Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
That is a caution for people doing multiple, extended or high firings of the same piece repeatedly. It has never been an issue with flameworked BE.
exactly, thank you.
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  #115  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:16pm
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Frogsongstudio Frogsongstudio is offline
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Originally Posted by J&M View Post
I know you own that site. You should go read it again and see all of the nonsense that was written by your members. Talk about insults! Geez. They're the same ones who attacked Natasha so bad that her husband had to come on the LE thread to defend her. Anyone would do the same for their spouse. This thread, just like the one months ago is starting to get WAY out of hand. I suggest that everyone go and read the T.B. thread and make your own conclusions. That's all.

Jack
Do I have to say it again? That thread was a reaction to the behavior of the Devardi people. EVERYONE was already pissed off, and with good reason.

Nobody attacked Natasha. I saw the whole thing as it happened and before posts were deleted BY Daniel and Natasha. Natasha got upset, overwhelmed and over-emotional simply because she couldn't answer and wasn't prepared to answer the questions that were being asked. No one insulted her! The insults started with the Devardi crew. Bad behavior begets like behavior. That's just the way it is. You can't insult people and expect them to love you for it.

The Devardi people could still turn this around in their favor if they would just listen. Just like bad behavior begets like behavior, respect gains respect right back.

Seriously, I was initially very happy with Drafly's previous post to me which appeared to be respectful until the end. Those 3 words at the end negated anything he had to say as far as I'm concerned. Because he just did what I've been trying to tell you all is the worst possible way to defend Devardi and does more harm than good.

Let me give you an example. Let's take Shawnette's posts about Devardi glass. Her opinion about Devardi glass goes a lot further with me simply because she states her opinion about the glass without insulting anyone who has or has had issues with it. When I read opinions like that, I start leaning toward, well... maybe I should give it a try. But then I keep reading and in charges the Devardi crew with the same behavior insults and I remember why I won't try Devardi.

If that doesn't make sense to you and the Devardi people then there's nothing left to say because you're just not getting it.
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  #116  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:17pm
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I disagree. I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that if kilnforming can cause changes in the glass composition that flameworking can as well. Flameworkers can have the glass going through many heating and cooling cycles for 30 minutes, an hour, longer even, and they are getting it hotter than the kiln range given. And the bullseye link doesn't use "and", it uses "or", telling me that they say any of those things can cause a change significant enough to impact stability in a piece.

Again, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the cool working=no cracking thing, since I haven't had cracking problems and I don't work cool. I'm just saying that even bullseye lays a logical foundation for the possibility.
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  #117  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:18pm
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Frogsongstudio Frogsongstudio is offline
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Originally Posted by Drafly View Post
Nothing will be accompolished by reliving the old Devardi thread. I do find it amusing, however, the ones that post and seem to think they are the authorities of "right and wrong" on this thread, are the very ones that have never tried this glass. Is it for the sake of argument, or Internet debate? I, truly, am interested to know. Most of them only give opinions, and rant on with their long posts, but have contributed nothing to the thread.
I, for one, want to hear any results concerning glass, any glass. I want to hear the good, as well as the bad, about Devardi glass. I think that is what most of us are here for. Constructive criticism is welcomed. We will learn from it. I hate to see old topics from this thread revived. I think it would be more constructive to move on. Just my humble opinion.
Jim
Jim
Well that's just it isn't it? As soon as someone shares the bad, they get attacked and accused of intentionally trying to sabotage a business. It's pathetic.
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  #118  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:20pm
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Kalera Kalera is offline
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Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff View Post
I disagree. I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that if kilnforming can cause changes in the glass composition that flameworking can as well. Flameworkers can have the glass going through many heating and cooling cycles for 30 minutes, an hour, longer even, and they are getting it hotter than the kiln range given. And the bullseye link doesn't use "and", it uses "or", telling me that they say any of those things can cause a change significant enough to impact stability in a piece.

Again, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the cool working=no cracking thing, since I haven't had cracking problems and I don't work cool. I'm just saying that even bullseye lays a logical foundation for the possibility.

1. 30 minutes or an hour is not a long time in the kilnforming world, and

2. in lampworking, glass is not held in the fully-molten state for those periods of time. Glass at 1500+ would simply run off the mandrel.

Those of us who use BE extensively in flameworking, and have for many years, have never had that problem arise, which indicates that in a good-quality glass it's not an issue for our application.
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Last edited by Kalera; 2009-11-19 at 2:25pm.
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  #119  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:29pm
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Originally Posted by Frogsongstudio View Post
Do I have to say it again? That thread was a reaction to the behavior of the Devardi people. EVERYONE was already pissed off, and with good reason.

Nobody attacked Natasha.

If that doesn't make sense to you and the Devardi people then there's nothing left to say because you're just not getting it.
Everyone attacked Natasha and you know it. And what's this "you Devardi people" stuff? Out of all the glass that I use, Devardi is the least used of all. What kind of person are you? Are you a Moretti person? Are you a Lauscha person? Please, let everyone know so we all know what to call YOU.

Jack
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  #120  
Old 2009-11-19, 2:34pm
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chrissij chrissij is offline
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I hate to see old topics from this thread revived. I think it would be more constructive to move on. Just my humble opinion.
Jim
They aren't old topics if there was no resolution. They'll remain an ongoing topic until there is resolution. Some have made personal resolutions to never purchase Devardi glass because of the old, yet ongoing topics. It is only truly constructive to move on if the initial problems have been resolved. Apparently many believe that the glass quality is improving. One hopes that with more sales the Devardi staff are reaping the benefits in increased wages, and better working conditions. What hasn't changed is the owners, who, IMNSHO showed their asses SO BADLY that I don't blame them at all for not wanting to face the firing squad ready to do them in. However, turning tail, deleting their posts, and never darkening the LE doorway to make amends, DID cost them a great deal of business.

And before anyone says "they were badgered into defending themselves", that's your perception, and even if that were the case, defense doesn't necessitate offensive, snide, and vindictive behavior.

I, personally, saw honest questioning; I saw reasonable hesitance to buy into the "it's the greatest thing since sliced bread" that was being voiced by newer members; I saw apologies; I saw more honest questioning; I witnessed "off the charts nastiness" from the owners of the company directed at who I assume they should consider to be their target audience. Many saw what I saw. Your perception may differ. The bottom line is simple. People like to spend their money with people they like.

I don't give a hoot whether or not Devardi is here to stay. Who cares? What I do care about is how Devardi's staunch supporters seek to discredit, and demean, anyone who doesn't agree with them.

As far as the glass goes...

I think some of the colors are pretty. I think Jack has made some pretty beads.
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Last edited by chrissij; 2009-11-19 at 2:49pm. Reason: Defence and Defense are both right? Huh?
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