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  #1  
Old 2009-10-05, 5:01pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Default Melting face of redmax

Hi all,
I bought a used redmax with premix top. Set it up all new hoses and tanks even regulators and used it a couple days then noticed that the ports were getting clogged every time i use it. Today i used it about a half hour and the face got so hot that it melted the brass and clogged most of the ports. Well i got all the ports back open and only some of the brass got melted away. I fired it up and got a pop when i turned the O2 on but it lit fine and the flame looked fine, then with in 10 mins the face was about to melt down again and the ports were red hot and some closed back up.
My question is what am i doing wrong "settings or pressures 5 gas 15 O2" or its there something plunged i cant see?

Why did it happen to begin with ?

was something inside the torch broke before i got it ?

Can i fix this ?

I have emailed nortel 3 times asking for info or to buy the original paperwork but they seem to be to bizzy to write me back its only been 1 email a month for 3 months.
Thanks in advance to anyone or all that can help me get this thing going

Steve
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  #2  
Old 2009-10-05, 5:45pm
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I ran my Red Max with 40 psi of oxygen and never had that problem. 15 sounds too low.

What does your flame look like when you are running the torch?
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  #3  
Old 2009-10-05, 5:59pm
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Are you running a big flame, or a small flame?

Many torches need a large flame to push the heat away from the face of the torch.

Oh, you weren't doing any inside-out work, were you?

Malcolm
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  #4  
Old 2009-10-05, 5:59pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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thx for looking and trying to help

medium flame most of the time small flame when daughter is trying to use bullseye.

no inside out work yet not that adv yet lol

Steve

ps this is what it looks like after the meltdown and me fixing what i could.

Last edited by AcidFly; 2009-10-05 at 6:08pm.
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  #5  
Old 2009-10-05, 8:14pm
metalbone metalbone is offline
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damn, what did they use to hold the center fire in, plaster of paris?
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  #6  
Old 2009-10-06, 7:32am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Cosmo do you think i should try that just never heard of the kind of pressure being used and don't want to melt all the torch up but i have just been reading info from girls I'm going to man up and crank it up what the worst i can do burn the house down "its a old house anyways" and i don't think i can hurt it anymore as it wont work like this anyways.

I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to take it apart and see whats inside. I guessing not much but what the heck as i really cant use it like this. I just tried it again and within 15 mins the face was melting hot and some of the ports had already clogged.
Maybe i got a leak inside and its actually is burning inside the torch instead of on the out side but i don't know.
Is that even a possibility to have it per-burning inside the torch and getting hot ?
but it cant can it ? the gas and O2 are in different areas and cant mix before the outside of the torch.
Dam this was a great looking torch and i got it for a couple hundred it shows no signs of abuse at all, not even a scratch and the face was perfect condition so it must have been something i did.

thanks
Steve

P.S. if anyone has a picture of the breakdown or even the original paperwork that came with this torch and is willing to scan and share with me would be very cool as i cant find anything on the net and nortel wont answer my emails and sounds bad but I'm not good on the phone and would be studdering most of the time so i haven't got up the nerve to call them yet lol

thanks again
Steve
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  #7  
Old 2009-10-06, 7:35am
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I really can't help you with the issue but I did own a Red Max and had no trouble with it. I will tell you this though, you should call them. I have talked to them in the past and they are very helpful and they answer the phone. I sold mine so I no longer have the info on it.
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  #8  
Old 2009-10-06, 9:01am
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Personally, I think your torch has been overheated, and I wouldn't try to fire it up any more.

If there are internal leaks, you really should let Nortel look at it. If it is just a question of you having overheated the face, there is another option:

When Nortel introduced the Red Max, they offered a 'upgrade' kit for people that owned Major burners. This upgrade kit consists of the front piece to this torch and the red heat-sink body pieces. For less than $200, you can replace the whole head. Here's that kit on ABR's web site:

http://www.dichroicimagery.com/produ...oducts_id=2437

Malcolm
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  #9  
Old 2009-10-06, 9:05am
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Call Jean at Nortel. I've met her, she's a really sweetie. She won't bite!
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  #10  
Old 2009-10-06, 9:46am
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BTW, this is what a new Red Max face looks like:



Yours has definitely been overheated.

Malcolm
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  #11  
Old 2009-10-06, 9:51am
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OMGosh, I wouldn't fire that torch up again...it's definately got big problems. Maybe Nortel can fix it.
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  #12  
Old 2009-10-06, 11:27am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Ok now that we know my torch head is shot anyone got any idea how i did it ? it was on a low flame wit 5lb propane and 15 lb O2 for about a 1/2 hour then I looked down to see most of the ports blocked then noticed that the brass rings were melting and my bottom pic is what was left after i unclogged all the holes.
Ya Malcolm that what it looked like last week and when i first got it that's why i said i thought it was in good shape
Thanks all now i got to find 200 for a new head or fix it myself "I'm a ex-machinist". I wander if they just sell parts hmmm that brings us back to making the phone call
Steve
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  #13  
Old 2009-10-06, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidFly View Post
Ok now that we know my torch head is shot anyone got any idea how i did it ? it was on a low flame wit 5lb propane and 15 lb O2 for about a 1/2 hour then I looked down to see most of the ports blocked then noticed that the brass rings were melting and my bottom pic is what was left after i unclogged all the holes.
Yup, sounds like you were running the flame too low for too long, and just overheated the head.

You know, big torches want to put out a big flame. They are not 'happy' running small flames. It's like driving a Ferrari downtown, in stop and go traffic, in 4th gear.

This is one case where bigger is not better ...

Malcolm
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  #14  
Old 2009-10-06, 1:29pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Yippy I think i saved it from the dead, after thinking about it and taking it apart i came to the concussion that i would try and sand some of the face off about 1/16 of a in and re-clean the holes and this is what i got


and for those who wanted to see the inside of a red-max well here it is :


and like all work on things that get hot then cold all the time, I had 1 bolt break and am on the way to the garage now to fix that.
I'll let you know how it works tonight when i get it all back together.

I'm still looking for a copy of the paper work that come with a redmax so i can read about what I'm doing wrong
thanks
Steve
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  #15  
Old 2009-10-06, 2:14pm
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So *thats* what the insides look like!

Malcolm
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  #16  
Old 2009-10-06, 4:14pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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I got it all together and ran it for 15 mins with a 12 inch flame, No ports were clogged and when i shut it off the brass was not red !!!



So whats the smallest flame that i can run with a redmax ?

Thanks for all the help and If anyone comes across a copy of the paperwork it came with please scan it and send me a copy

Thanks again
Steve
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  #17  
Old 2009-10-07, 8:25am
metalbone metalbone is offline
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Good Job Steve, thanks for posting this, and your fix.
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  #18  
Old 2009-10-09, 9:49pm
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You want to push the point of ignition off the face of the torch. When you run a low flame, the ignition is happening close to the face and the face takes on heat.

Also, if your flame is not neutral, and you get carbon build-up inside the tubes, that carbon can take on heat, too,and overheat the torch.

As a general rule, the shorter your candles, the more oxygen you need to use. If your candles are 1/4" or shorter, you want to have all-blue candles, with no tips on the ends. The longer your candles, the larger the yelow/white tips on the ends of the candles can be.
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  #19  
Old 2009-10-14, 9:52am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Thanks guys for all your help

Steve
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  #20  
Old 2009-10-14, 2:55pm
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For a much smaller flame use the minor portion on the top ... I borrowed one for a while and could run the top on a concentrator and the bigger flame on a tank, worked fine.
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  #21  
Old 2009-10-22, 10:19am
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Hey there, I thought I'd let you know that I run my Red Max on two oxycons (both are 10 lpm / 7-9 psi) with propane and I've never had any problems with it. I use the bottom Red Max for large stuff and boro. The top, which is a Minor, I use for all my other soft glass work. I think you mentioned Bullseye, I use the top torch for that too.

I found the paperwork that came with my Red Max and copied it below for you:

"To prevent overheating of the heads and nozzle tubes: 1) Do not have small gas flame burning with little or no oxygen. 2) Low velocity small flames can cause a red glow at face of the burner. This will prematurely oxidize burning away the nozzle tubes.

Always adjust control valves to avoid red glow at face and red tinge in the flame. Increasing oxygen flow will reduce this.

Do not allow molten glass to touch the front burner face because glass deposits in & around the nozzle tubes and is almost impossible to remove.

Nortel burners run on low pressures Propane 2-6 PSI, Natural Gas: 1/4 to 2 PSI (6" water column or more), Oxygen 5-8 PSI"

The only other info on this sheet is a warning not to use acetylene gas and how to use the cleaning tool.

I had to laugh when I read about the glass on the front of the torch being impossible to remove. Several weeks ago I was trying to add glass to a huge iron key. It was so heavy that I was really getting fatigued and I actually let it slip and it hit the torch head and smeared half the head with glass. I was mortified. I turned off the torch and ran upstairs to get ice to see if I could crack it off. When I turned the torch back on again the pressure blew the glass off with the loudest bang you ever heard. It was fantastic b/c my torch was perfect underneath!

I've loved my Red Max and hope you have lots of good luck with yours!
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  #22  
Old 2009-10-22, 2:12pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Thank you so much for the info only problem with my max is that its got the premix on top not the minor and i seem to be using the top premix more then the red-max right not because I'm trying to make smaller figurines so all good with that and I agree with you guys i really like my red-max. as for the softer glass i just grabbed my daughter a minor off of eBay for 100 bucks "it was a ladies backup ? well it came and its mint condition and works great my kid is using and have a great time.

Thanks again guys

Steve
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  #23  
Old 2009-12-16, 8:24pm
dreadycuban dreadycuban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidFly View Post


thanks for the pics. is this premix or surface mix?
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  #24  
Old 2009-12-16, 8:27pm
dreadycuban dreadycuban is offline
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sorry i should read the previous posts
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  #25  
Old 2010-03-12, 12:09pm
gypsyhawk gypsyhawk is offline
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Venessa,
Thank you so much for the paperwork for the redmax. I have been out of commission for about 5 years which is when I purchased my torch due to nerve damage in my hands. I am just getting the use of my hands back, but NO DIRECTIONS are in sight, what else is new.....
You are a lifesaver!

Leba
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  #26  
Old 2010-03-18, 6:30pm
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this post is awesome!!! i just bought one and this has been an excellent tip!! if i torch an hour or two a day, what would a reasonable size O2 tank to buy?? id like to get the optimum size for less trips to the store for re-fills, but still not pay a bunch for big fills and a big deposit...any ideas?
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  #27  
Old 2010-03-20, 7:55am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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I use K tanks, They are the bigger cutting torch size. I pay 40 a year rental and 25 to fill each time. with the redmax running I get about 4 -6 hours run time but i don't use it that much and only little bits at a time cause i mostly use the minor top i put on.
Some of the guys that use the bigger torches have gone to lox but now your talking bigger bucks to start and some planing. But that's the best why to save.
AcidFly
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  #28  
Old 2010-03-20, 8:32am
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thanks...i guess i should start thinking about renting two tanks then...so i dont have to travel so often...the oxy supplier is about a 30 minutes drive each way for me....
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