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  #1  
Old 2009-07-06, 6:56pm
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Default Cheaper HotHead

I was at a Fred Meyer in oregon and I found a MagTorch 245 for $20. Ii appears to be exactly the same as a hot head for half the price. I do not own a hot head, but i am going to make a comparison at a store. This new torch has 6 air intake holes and is quite loud. The valve opens 3/4ths of a turn. Is this a hot head and do you think it will work for glass?

Last edited by Mr. Meker; 2011-07-07 at 10:23pm.
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  #2  
Old 2009-07-06, 7:13pm
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Just remember that you get what you pay for...the Hothead torch has proven itself over many years and there are a lot of people here who are knowlegeable and can help you along...that alone is worth the extra money you will pay for the Hothead...
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  #3  
Old 2009-07-06, 7:37pm
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But on the other hand I've also heard of plenty of hotheads flaming out and going bad too.

Having said that, keeping in mind you'll have your hands on either side of a pretty decent flame, you really don't want the head to rupture suddenly and shoot flames out the side. It's like toilet paper, the quality is worth the extra money.
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  #4  
Old 2009-07-06, 8:17pm
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i'm sorry to derail, but i must for a moment... i have never heard a torch being compared to toilet paper! ROTFL! but ohhh so very true.
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Old 2009-07-06, 8:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie lynne View Post
i'm sorry to derail, but i must for a moment... i have never heard a torch being compared to toilet paper! ROTFL! but ohhh so very true.
One of the few things I don't skimp on
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  #6  
Old 2009-07-07, 5:43am
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I bought a cheaper torch when hubby decided to try lampworking.

I quickly bought another HotHead. Quality tells.
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  #7  
Old 2009-07-07, 7:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meker View Post
I was at a Fred Meyer in oregon and I found a MagTorch 245 for $20. Ii appears to be exactly the same as a hot head for half the price. I do not own a hot head, but i am going to make a comparison at a store. THis new torc has 6 air intake holes and is quite loud. The valve opens 3/4ths of a turn. Is this a hot head and do you think it will work for glass?
The reason a HH is loud is the combustion process, it is NOT like a fuel/oxygen torch in that the HH has to draw its own air into head to support combustion process. To do this the air/fuel torch sustain a combustion process that is sort of a mini, continuous explosion, that is why ANY fuel/air torch has a roar to it.....

Now riddle me this.....



Is the item in this picture A> a HOT HEAD, B> a MAG TORCH 245, C> a BBQ LIGHTER. D> a SPACE ALIEN WEAPON?

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2009-07-07 at 7:24am.
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  #8  
Old 2009-07-07, 8:34am
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Seems like it could be A,B, or D. This looks exactly like my torch.

A blue cone means an oxidizing flame and a green cone means a reducing flame, right?
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  #9  
Old 2009-07-07, 8:58am
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if i'm not mistaken, a hot head runs ever so slightly to the reducing side of flame chemistry, it is hard (maybe impossible) to get a true oxidizing flame on one. i'm sure dale will correct if i'm wrong. he is the hot head guru.

it is certainly d. lol. those damn aliens.
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  #10  
Old 2009-07-07, 9:26am
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I just made a small marble from clear to see if it would muddy the glass and it didnt! It also left my opaque green the same color! I think it is exactly the same as a hot head.
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  #11  
Old 2009-07-07, 11:56am
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I just emailed Sarah..she owns the HH company and maybe she will drop in and clarify things for you. You can reach her at sarah@hotheadsource.com

Lorraine
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  #12  
Old 2009-07-07, 12:23pm
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Let me guess.... Sara owns the Hot Head brand name and she also owns the "Hot Head Company" but she buys her product from a manufacturer and rebrands it for her own company....

Dale
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  #13  
Old 2009-07-07, 12:54pm
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Dale...I couldn't say. What I was saying is that Sarah owns the HH company and can tell meker for sure if there is a difference and what it is.

Maybe it is the inner workings of the torch? Maybe not? But if anyone could answer meker's questions it would be Sarah. That was all I was saying.



Lorraine
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  #14  
Old 2009-07-07, 6:26pm
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Dale, where did you find that picture?
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Old 2009-07-07, 6:34pm
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From the people who manufacture that torch....

Dale
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  #16  
Old 2009-07-07, 7:01pm
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Looks like a HH, but my HH is Brass and that does not look like brass, so I'm going with C...
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  #17  
Old 2009-07-07, 7:35pm
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Oh its brass alright... Its just the lighting giving picture weird cast to color....

Dale
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  #18  
Old 2009-07-07, 7:45pm
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Well, I'm going with A & B ... A rose by any other name....
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  #19  
Old 2009-07-07, 8:09pm
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The original Hot Head Torch was developed by Cindy Jenkins:

http://cindyjenkins.net/tools.html

I don't know who actually manufactured the torch for Cindy.

I also do not know when or how Sarah seemingly assumed the Hot Head design. At least Sarah does give credit to Cindy for the design:

http://www.hotheadsource.com/torchinfo.html

The design of the Hot Head Torch has evolved. IIRC, in the original design, the burner head could be disassembled (for cleaning, etc.). AFAIK, the current version does not seem to offer that capability.

FWIW

Malcolm
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  #20  
Old 2009-07-08, 6:15am
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Here is all the details..........

http://www.magtorch.com/PROP200sub.htm

http://www.magtorch.com/images/Produ...0Low%20Rez.pdf

http://www.magtorch.com/images/Instr...20MT%20245.pdf

As for pricing....

http://www.builderdepot.com/seo/MAGN...IP_TORCH.ihtml

http://www.hardwareworld.com/Hd-Penc...h-pTVE3XN.aspx

http://health-beauty.pricegrabber.co...m66708966.html

And it just goes on and on and on.......

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2009-07-08 at 6:20am.
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  #21  
Old 2009-07-08, 6:46am
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I picked up one at Menard's when I was in Indiana a couple of weeks ago. It was only $15, so I thought I'd try it out to see how it compared to a HH since it looks exactly the same. There were 2 versions; The one like Dale posted and one with a smaller flame. I bought the one that with the smaller flame but I haven't had a chance to to hook it up, yet.
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  #22  
Old 2009-07-08, 6:57am
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From talking to Cindy over the years, she used to assemble the torches in her basement, so I don't think it's the same as the Mag unless when she sold the rights to the torch they are allowing it to be sold under another name, or........a knockoff?
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Old 2009-07-08, 5:15pm
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the fact that the "new" hotheads aren't adjustable was the biggest reason I wanted to upgrade (seriously!)--I knew someday the "old" ones would be all gone!
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  #24  
Old 2009-07-13, 11:04am
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We, too, found a HotHead look-alike at a local hardware store...prompting us to speak to the people at magtorch. They indicate that their torch is NOT a hothead and that Hotheads are modified to different specification.

We will continue to supply hotheads in our beginner level classes with the trust that Cindy has been there/done that and felt the modifications in the torch to be worth the investment in the long run and not so expensive that it keeps people from trying their hand at the medium.

I'm able to offer my testimonial that I've worked regularly on my original HotHead obtained in 2001...our instructors teach our classes on the very same torch head. We've only had to replace the orifice 1X for $10. So...that's only about $7.50 per year to own my torch....and it's not done yet.
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  #25  
Old 2009-08-08, 7:12am
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Default HH Valve-Flame Question

Hi,

I'm a new lampworker on a HH Torch. I am having a problem with the Torch actually flaring larger as I turn it down (at a set place on the valve as I roll the knob to the right). It's near the low shut-off side.

I am running it on propane for cost sake. It will also be running fine at the lowest end with the smallest blue cone flame, and then shut off abruptly. Does weather cause this? It's not consistent in doing it. And when it starts doing it it may do it 2 or 3 times within an hour.

Can anyone comment and help a Newbie out?

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  #26  
Old 2009-08-08, 9:31am
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Nope. Its poor quality redesign for torch head and valve... Some years ago the people who make the HH decided to cheapen product.... The user is the victim....

Dale
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  #27  
Old 2009-08-08, 9:42am
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I have the same problem with the new HH I bought to replace my 1st. Extremely aggravating. I stick with the HH because of very limited space
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Last edited by blr2449; 2009-08-08 at 9:58am. Reason: typo
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  #28  
Old 2009-08-08, 2:14pm
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Are the original HH torches available anywhere? Can the cost to mfr really be a gain over the lower quality?

Has anyone asked the Mfr about it?
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  #29  
Old 2009-08-08, 6:19pm
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I had a chance to talk to Cindy Jenkins at the ISGB Gathering, where I asked her about the design of the Hot Head torch. She told me of how she went to the company that was already making a generic torch (as Dale pointed out above), and worked with them to modify the ports and jets. Her modifications were needed to get the proper flame chemistry needed to cleanly melt glass.

The company still makes the generic torch. They also make the Hot Head, which has the modified ports and jets. The generic torch does not have the modified ports and jets, and does not create the proper flame chemistry needed to cleanly melt our glass.

(While I didn't ask, I assume that the manufacturer "improved" the design of their generic torch somewhere along the way. Since the generic torch is the basis for the Hot Head, the Hot Head was also changed. This would explain the original style vs the new style.)

Malcolm
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  #30  
Old 2009-08-09, 6:16am
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Is there a new HH Torch that is of high quality (and where can I get it) - for example not shutting off without warning, not flaring as you turn it down?

Last edited by Fine Folly Glassworks; 2009-08-09 at 5:48pm.
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