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  #31  
Old 2010-03-25, 11:47am
oldschooltofu oldschooltofu is offline
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yea well i have invested in 3 huricanes and need to keep them working as long as possible. im just fustrated....with new seals, new orings and checked all the hose clamps, they are still fluctuating in lpm every time the sieve bed vents out the nitrogen.

i just dont see myself buying any more machines in the near future if they only last 2 years at best.

8lpm will that run a lynx?

i have spent too many hours fixing these compressors, i even had to rebuild the one that came with my filling station (the millenium generator), but its working great now.
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  #32  
Old 2010-03-25, 6:16pm
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I didn't post to ask you to buy more machines - I know you have a lot of $$ tied up into what you have. I posted about my machines for the benefit of anyone else looking for a high pressure solution at a good price who doesn't want to go through what you're going through. I'm sorry if you thought "you guys" meant you and your studio. I meant you guys as in anyone reading this.

8 LPM at 15 psi or 8 LPM at 20 psi will run a Lynx, but not as well as 10 LPM at 8 psi. It depends on what you want to do with the Lynx as to how happy you would be with 8 LPM.
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Last edited by kbinkster; 2010-03-25 at 9:25pm. Reason: more clarification needed
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  #33  
Old 2010-03-26, 8:21am
oldschooltofu oldschooltofu is offline
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ok....got 2 working again. its those damn hoses. had to replace them because the heat is causing the hoses to fail.
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  #34  
Old 2010-03-26, 8:43am
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What heat? Heat from your studio or heat within the machine?
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  #35  
Old 2010-03-29, 8:11pm
oldschooltofu oldschooltofu is offline
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heat from the compressors in the machine. they get really hot from pumping the air and the rubber ends up failing.
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  #36  
Old 2010-03-29, 9:00pm
metalbone metalbone is offline
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seems like every post about a hurricane is about one problem or another...glad I passed on the hurricane and went the medical oxycon route
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  #37  
Old 2010-03-29, 10:04pm
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Is there a cooling fan or two in that machine? The compressor will heat up and all, but it shouldn't heat up so much that the other parts are failing. How's the wiring? Is it rated for the load it's carrying?
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  #38  
Old 2010-03-30, 7:19am
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the fans are working fine. i have been running them wihtout the cases on. hoses are easy to replace, its finding the leak that was fustrating.

going to try to fix huricane #3 today
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  #39  
Old 2010-03-30, 10:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalbone View Post
seems like every post about a hurricane is about one problem or another...glad I passed on the hurricane and went the medical oxycon route
The Hurricane is, from my understanding, the tweaked guts of medical concentrator(s) put into a new case. I could be completely wrong about this, but that is what I have been told and that is what it looks like when looking at pictures of it with the case off.

When you push too much air through the sieves, the sieve material burns out and the compressor burns out. When you run a certain amount of electronic components on wiring meant to carry only a fraction of that load, your wiring is going to fail (fire hazard). There is a reason that machines are made the way they are by their original manufacturers.

When you want to get more flow at higher pressures, you have to use a larger volume of sieve material. If you pass a larger than intended volume of feed air, or that feed air is pushed through at a higher than intended pressure (and by intended, I mean what was intended by the original manufacturer of the base machine/component) through a normal canister, you will damage the sieve material (resulting in poor purity and dusting - and you do not want sieve dust in your torch valves, it is like ground glass).

There is a higher grade sieve material available, but it is very, very costly (outrageously expensive) and is meant to be used in smaller canisters in smaller machines to get more flow out of a smaller canister (not higher pressure). But, nonetheless, if this higher grade sieve is poured into a regular-sized system meant for the regular sieve, but is simply overrun (a larger than intended volume of feed air is put through or you push the feed air through at a higher than intended pressure) and if the sieve holds up, you will still burn out the compressor.

If you correct this problem by replacing the compressor with a higher grade compressor capable of handling that load, then the price of the machine goes up even more and you will still have the problem with the wiring. If you correct the wiring, then you will then have added on even more to the price of the machine. And then, there is the matter of all the other components of the system and whether or not they can handle the increased work load (like valves and hoses and whatnot). Oh, and then there is the cost of having a special cabinet built to house it all which adds to the cost.

To build a system like this, and build it the right way, is not cheap.

Oh, and there is also the issue of whether or not a system like that can be run for very long at a low flow (small flame). When you run a small flame, you basically backpressure the machine. When the machine is backpressured, the air is held in the sieve canisters longer, giving better separation, and the result is a temporary increase in purity. The problem, though, is that this is hard on the sieve. When you increase the throughput, the problem is exaggerated. So, on these larger machines, there is effectively a minimum flow rate. If you are not made aware of this, and you work with mostly a small flame using a large flame occasionally, you could be damaging your machine.

There are still going to be people flocking to buy these things, knowing that they could be trouble. They're willing to take the time to fix them when they break down and they're willing to put up with the hassle because the upfront cost is low enough to make them attractive (especially when compared to the high cost of a new generator system, when that was all that was available). What people don't usually account for is the value of their time and the value of their wellbeing. If the time spent fiddling with the machine were spent busting out prodo, how much money would that be? If the machine is out of commission waiting to be repaired, how much does that cost (in lost work or tanked oxygen cost while waiting, if available)? If the aggravation did not stifle your creativity or put you in a troubled mood, how much more productive would you have been? Some of that is really hard to measure, but some of it is pretty straight forward. Of course, there are people who enjoy tinkering. If they are using this as a hobby, then the breakdowns are not an inconvenience and they don't mind losing production.



I don't think that anyone knowing all that and still buying one is lacking or anything for going that route (heck, you have to be smart to fix them when they break down). It is a business decision and you have to decide what is best for you at the time. You can only do what you can do. But, what I do want everyone to know is that new and properly reconditioned, non-tweaked used machines do not give this much trouble. I hope that people reading about these Hurricanes and the other UO/EO machines don't think that all machines are like that. They're not. And now that there is another affordable option available for high pressure output, I hope they really understand that.
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  #40  
Old 2010-03-31, 4:10pm
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Default The Hurricane

The Hurricane is made with the highest grade of molecular sieve available. Most medical grade 5lpm units, use a grade of sieve called oxy 5 or 1006 or 5 angstrm which is a size rating on the bead. 1 bead also has hundreds of minute holes which are a certian size to trap nitrogen molecules. There is another grade of sieve which is called oxy 7 or 1207. This is more refined with more holes and is coated with Lithium. Under high pressures, the Lithium will take on a positive charge which will help attract the nitrogen molecules. When the sieve bed system switches, the pressure briefly drops and the nitrogen is released and forced out of the bed. Every Hurricane is built with the oxy 7 sieve. The cost of the oxy 7 is 21.00 per pound vs the 4.50 per pound for the oxy 5. These units have been tried and tested for years. Sure there have been very few breakdowns, but given the hundreds that are out there working, I think they are a great product. Each unit is now hand built by me. I know every item that goes in to building one. Yes, the compressors are rebuilt, and the sieve bed (aluminum cannister) is reused. But the items that are critical, are replaced. The wiring is tested and proven as are the switches. There are 2 compressors, each compressor has it's own cooling fan. New hoses are installed. I have noticed that the hose that I use, sometimes gets hard after a few years of use and the high heat. These compressors do run very hot. Cooling them has always been a challenge. Usually when someone comes along to offer a simular unit, they will immediately start dissing the competition. I dont mind, but seems to me that the only people who comes to this and most forums, are out for someone or something and it is usually negitive. By-the-way, since the above post ended with a plug for self service, I will end mine the same way. The Hurricane will soon be available as 2 separate snap together units. It will work as 1 as it always has, then you will be able to split the Hurricane in to 2 seperate units for 2 or more torches. jack
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  #41  
Old 2010-03-31, 6:02pm
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Quote:
Usually when someone comes along to offer a simular unit, they will immediately start dissing the competition. I dont mind, but seems to me that the only people who comes to this and most forums, are out for someone or something and it is usually negitive.
I don't see anyone coming on here "out for something or someone." No one has hurled insults at anyone. No one has made any threats. The main "negativity" in this thread has been the disappointment and frustration expressed by some people in regards to their machines not working and needing repair.

This thread has been one discussing the problems a few people have been having with the Hurricane. Sadly, threads like these are not uncommon. I see the frustration from a lot of people who spend a lot of money on a machine that should be simple to use and maintain and wind up with... something else. I have also heard from people who, after having a bad experience with one of the units made by you or your brother, are ready to give up on concentrators/generators all together and go back to tanked oxygen.

I want people to know that the problems that have been reported by people using these machines is NOT the industry norm. There are alternatives out there. And now, those alternatives are more affordable than they were previously. If your machines are the best things going and you're selling hundreds and hundreds of them, then you have nothing to worry about from me mentioning that reliable alternatives are available.

I did not come out and start up a thread dissing my competition. I am on this forum day in and day out helping where I can. I have been doing this (here and on other glass boards) for a long time - before I ever became a vendor. There's no reason to stop offering advice now.
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  #42  
Old 2010-03-31, 7:52pm
metalbone metalbone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
The Hurricane is, from my understanding, the tweaked guts of medical concentrator(s) put into a new case. I could be completely wrong about this, but that is what I have been told and that is what it looks like when looking at pictures of it with the case off.

When you push too much air through the sieves, the sieve material burns out and the compressor burns out. When you run a certain amount of electronic components on wiring meant to carry only a fraction of that load, your wiring is going to fail (fire hazard). There is a reason that machines are made the way they are by their original manufacturers.

When you want to get more flow at higher pressures, you have to use a larger volume of sieve material. If you pass a larger than intended volume of feed air, or that feed air is pushed through at a higher than intended pressure (and by intended, I mean what was intended by the original manufacturer of the base machine/component) through a normal canister, you will damage the sieve material (resulting in poor purity and dusting - and you do not want sieve dust in your torch valves, it is like ground glass).

There is a higher grade sieve material available, but it is very, very costly (outrageously expensive) and is meant to be used in smaller canisters in smaller machines to get more flow out of a smaller canister (not higher pressure). But, nonetheless, if this higher grade sieve is poured into a regular-sized system meant for the regular sieve, but is simply overrun (a larger than intended volume of feed air is put through or you push the feed air through at a higher than intended pressure) and if the sieve holds up, you will still burn out the compressor.

If you correct this problem by replacing the compressor with a higher grade compressor capable of handling that load, then the price of the machine goes up even more and you will still have the problem with the wiring. If you correct the wiring, then you will then have added on even more to the price of the machine. And then, there is the matter of all the other components of the system and whether or not they can handle the increased work load (like valves and hoses and whatnot). Oh, and then there is the cost of having a special cabinet built to house it all which adds to the cost.

To build a system like this, and build it the right way, is not cheap.

Oh, and there is also the issue of whether or not a system like that can be run for very long at a low flow (small flame). When you run a small flame, you basically backpressure the machine. When the machine is backpressured, the air is held in the sieve canisters longer, giving better separation, and the result is a temporary increase in purity. The problem, though, is that this is hard on the sieve. When you increase the throughput, the problem is exaggerated. So, on these larger machines, there is effectively a minimum flow rate. If you are not made aware of this, and you work with mostly a small flame using a large flame occasionally, you could be damaging your machine.

There are still going to be people flocking to buy these things, knowing that they could be trouble. They're willing to take the time to fix them when they break down and they're willing to put up with the hassle because the upfront cost is low enough to make them attractive (especially when compared to the high cost of a new generator system, when that was all that was available). What people don't usually account for is the value of their time and the value of their wellbeing. If the time spent fiddling with the machine were spent busting out prodo, how much money would that be? If the machine is out of commission waiting to be repaired, how much does that cost (in lost work or tanked oxygen cost while waiting, if available)? If the aggravation did not stifle your creativity or put you in a troubled mood, how much more productive would you have been? Some of that is really hard to measure, but some of it is pretty straight forward. Of course, there are people who enjoy tinkering. If they are using this as a hobby, then the breakdowns are not an inconvenience and they don't mind losing production.

I don't think that anyone knowing all that and still buying one is lacking or anything for going that route (heck, you have to be smart to fix them when they break down). It is a business decision and you have to decide what is best for you at the time. You can only do what you can do. But, what I do want everyone to know is that new and properly reconditioned, non-tweaked used machines do not give this much trouble. I hope that people reading about these Hurricanes and the other UO/EO machines don't think that all machines are like that. They're not. And now that there is another affordable option available for high pressure output, I hope they really understand that.
This is good info, thanks!
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