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  #31  
Old 2006-03-10, 6:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
I believe the only thing you can adjust without opening up the machine is the volume (LPM). That's probably what you were adjusting at the gathering. The pressure (PSI) is adjusted inside the unit, with an allen wrench. If you mess with that, you have to make several other ajustments to the machine to put everything else in ballance. Correct me if I am wrong on this one Jack.

Was the machine opened up with a guy tinkering inside the box Kimberly?
Hi guys, the rule of thumb with these units is that the higher the flow (not pressure) the lower the purity. That is one of the challenges we have had trying to come up with a machine that will stay in the 80s and 90s purity while shoving out 10 to 15 lpm. Now we are pushing it even further with 20 lpm and more. The M10 purity should always be good up to 5lpm. The M20 purity is good up to around 8 lpm and starts to drop into the lower 80s at 10 lpm. The Psyclone I stays in the 90s up to 16 and 17 lpm, then drops in the 80s at 20 lpm. The Psyclone II is the same way up to 30 lpm. We are using the highest quality sieve in all our units that we can find (6000.00 for one barrel) Brent is right about the adjustments. The only adjustments available is the flow. Any adjustments made to the inside should be done by me. If you have one of my machines and you want it tweeked a little, send it back to me and I will do it for free. We have heard conflicting stories on which is more important, the flow or the pressure. Any imput from the flame throwers out there is always appreciated. Thanks for your interest. You are the experts in this industry and the ones that we are working for. And happy to be doing it!!!! jack

Last edited by Mr. Smiley; 2006-03-10 at 9:48am.
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  #32  
Old 2006-03-10, 7:49am
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Thanks Jack.. I'll let you know how the two units I get perform. I should pick them up at Ron's next week. I can't wait.
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  #33  
Old 2006-03-10, 8:02am
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Hi Oxydoc, I just have a few questions and comments. Do you have any certifications such as UL, CSA or CE on your modified units to indicate that the modifications being done to these units are safe? Are you or anyone in your company certified by Respironics to make the modifications on these units that produce higher pressures? I'm not trying to get on your case, but some of these units are being used in homes and even homes with small children and if you are modifying them to up the lpm's is there a chance of meltdown?

You mentioned that the "purity is good" on the M10 at 5 lpm and the purity on the M20 is good up to around 8 lpm. Can you tell me what you are defining as "good"?

A friend of mine has modified her own concentrator by puttin in a larger compressor and that has up'ed the volumn her concentrator puts out, but you are saying you are only rebuilding the compressor already in the Respironics unit, so if a larger compressor is not producing the additional lpm's, what is?

My concern in all of this is the lampworking community. The fact is that many people come out with inventions that help us do our art better and easier and cheaper and you may well fall into this category, however you are selling what is actually an appliance that could well be running in someone's home and I really want to express some concern. Up to this point in time, all oxygen producing units were not modified, but used as from the manufacturer, so I hope you can understand that people may not be used to thinking of the difference it makes by modifying a unit that has been designed to be used in a certain way.
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  #34  
Old 2006-03-10, 8:30am
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Oh, just to clear it up for you, Brent... the company rep opened the unit and made the adjustment. Afterall, it was not our machine to adjust. I believe it required an allen wrench. And it was the rep who had the oxygen gauge to measure the purity, as well.

Jack, thank you for your explanation.
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  #35  
Old 2006-03-10, 8:45am
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Is Unlimited Oxygen part of South Central Cryogenics in Illinois, that is in litigation because their oxygen equipment caused a fire, completely destroying a newly rented building ??

Last edited by Larry LaClair; 2006-03-10 at 9:07am.
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  #36  
Old 2006-03-10, 9:04am
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They are South Central Cryogenics in Indiana. 317 area code... I'm sure Jack will be back to answer...


Edited to add :Nice edit job there Larry... why did you decide to change your post so the name matches??? who are you? How are you involved???
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  #37  
Old 2006-03-10, 9:42am
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Ok, edited the last bit out for continuity. Let's stay on track with the discussion at hand. This is technical, not personal.
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  #38  
Old 2006-03-10, 12:02pm
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Here’s the deal…

When you are a reputable company, you have to exercise a certain level of responsibility when endorsing a product for sale. You can’t let your emotions get in the way of better judgement.

I helped Willy work the GTT booth at the Gathering last August. We talked to one of the company reps, and he told us what the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) could do. We walked over to their booth and they showed us the pressures that they could get and the purity. This is when the second rep showed us how they could boost the pressure. We liked what we saw and offered to run the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) at open torch. The rep who had been talking to us was very glad that we gave them the opportunity to debut their product.

So, the rep got it all hooked up and running for us at open torch. It performed extremely well. The unit ran the Cheetah to the fullest of its ability and ran the Phantom at full power (inner and outer fires) for a few seconds. It easily ran the center fire (Lynx) at full power continuously, no problem. Needless to say, this was great news. Having a low cost alternative to tanked oxygen for boro work (especially for torches requiring higher volumes and pressure) is fantastic. Willy and I were very excited about the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) and the company behind it, South Central Cryogenics. GTT was offered a distributorship on the spot.

Well, despite being very excited, GTT decided to hold up until they tested the units themselves on their torches back at the shop. As tempting as it was to jump on board with both feet, GTT couldn’t endorse this product, much less sell it, until further testing was done.

I got on the boards and reported about the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) and the performance at the Gathering, but followed up by saying that more testing needed to be done. We all set our excitement aside and took an analytical approach to the matter. That was the responsible thing to do.

So, what ever happened? What were the results of the testing? Well, more on that later…
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  #39  
Old 2006-03-10, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam
Hi Oxydoc, I just have a few questions and comments. Do you have any certifications such as UL, CSA or CE on your modified units to indicate that the modifications being done to these units are safe? Are you or anyone in your company certified by Respironics to make the modifications on these units that produce higher pressures? I'm not trying to get on your case, but some of these units are being used in homes and even homes with small children and if you are modifying them to up the lpm's is there a chance of meltdown?

You mentioned that the "purity is good" on the M10 at 5 lpm and the purity on the M20 is good up to around 8 lpm. Can you tell me what you are defining as "good"?

A friend of mine has modified her own concentrator by puttin in a larger compressor and that has up'ed the volumn her concentrator puts out, but you are saying you are only rebuilding the compressor already in the Respironics unit, so if a larger compressor is not producing the additional lpm's, what is?

My concern in all of this is the lampworking community. The fact is that many people come out with inventions that help us do our art better and easier and cheaper and you may well fall into this category, however you are selling what is actually an appliance that could well be running in someone's home and I really want to express some concern. Up to this point in time, all oxygen producing units were not modified, but used as from the manufacturer, so I hope you can understand that people may not be used to thinking of the difference it makes by modifying a unit that has been designed to be used in a certain way.
Hi Pam, thank you for your questions. We completely understand your concerns. My brother Paul and I do have certifications with many manufacturers. Most are medical related. We do have about 15 years of experience doing this service. The modifications that we perform are only related to enhancing what the unit was manufactured to do. All safety features such as thermal switches in the compressor, filters,valves and such are not removed or in any way tampered with. It is my personal opinion that an oxygen concentrator is considerably safer than an O2 tank which is pressurized to more than 2000 psi. Imagine a child knocking over that tank. In all cases when using oxygen and propane together in the same room with a flame-------the warnings go without saying!!!! There is no chance of a "meltdown". As far as the purity goes, when I said good, I meant and should have said high 80s and low 90s. I hope I have covered your questions. If not please yell at me again. jack
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  #40  
Old 2006-03-10, 12:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry LaClair
Is Unlimited Oxygen part of South Central Cryogenics in Illinois, that is in litigation because their oxygen equipment caused a fire, completely destroying a newly rented building ??
Let me put this gently. HELL NO!!!!! We are not nor have ever been in any form of litigation. We are NOT located in Illinois. We are in Central Indiana near Indy. And, to the best of MY knowledge, have never caused a fire. jack
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  #41  
Old 2006-03-10, 1:53pm
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Thank you, Jack, for answering my questions. I do realize the dangers associated with tanked oxy and it is recommended that you chain tanks to the wall so that they cannot be accidently tipped over. However, there are inherent dangers in running electric equipment also and just wanted to make sure that you realize that many of your units will be used in home settings. Lampworkers are a very safety conscious group because the activity of melting glass has hazards already associated with it.

Have your users found oxy purity in the high 80's to be sufficient for their work in soft and hard glass? I know that a highly oxidizing flame is necessary for some applications and was wondering if you have any feedback on that. I was under the perhaps false understanding that the purity was around 95 for most oxy concentrators.
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  #42  
Old 2006-03-10, 3:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster
Here’s the deal…

When you are a reputable company, you have to exercise a certain level of responsibility when endorsing a product for sale. You can’t let your emotions get in the way of better judgement.

I helped Willy work the GTT booth at the Gathering last August. We talked to one of the company reps, and he told us what the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) could do. We walked over to their booth and they showed us the pressures that they could get and the purity. This is when the second rep showed us how they could boost the pressure. We liked what we saw and offered to run the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) at open torch. The rep who had been talking to us was very glad that we gave them the opportunity to debut their product.

So, the rep got it all hooked up and running for us at open torch. It performed extremely well. The unit ran the Cheetah to the fullest of its ability and ran the Phantom at full power (inner and outer fires) for a few seconds. It easily ran the center fire (Lynx) at full power continuously, no problem. Needless to say, this was great news. Having a low cost alternative to tanked oxygen for boro work (especially for torches requiring higher volumes and pressure) is fantastic. Willy and I were very excited about the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) and the company behind it, South Central Cryogenics. GTT was offered a distributorship on the spot.

Well, despite being very excited, GTT decided to hold up until they tested the units themselves on their torches back at the shop. As tempting as it was to jump on board with both feet, GTT couldn’t endorse this product, much less sell it, until further testing was done.

I got on the boards and reported about the M-10 Custom (now called the P-20) and the performance at the Gathering, but followed up by saying that more testing needed to be done. We all set our excitement aside and took an analytical approach to the matter. That was the responsible thing to do.

So, what ever happened? What were the results of the testing? Well, more on that later…
Oh please do tell us the results of your testing now.
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  #43  
Old 2006-03-10, 4:26pm
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Yes, please tell us the results. I'd really like to know. I've got 2 M-20's running right now. Just got them hooked up. I'll see how it goes on a full day and let you guys know.
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  #44  
Old 2006-03-10, 4:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam
Thank you, Jack, for answering my questions. I do realize the dangers associated with tanked oxy and it is recommended that you chain tanks to the wall so that they cannot be accidently tipped over. However, there are inherent dangers in running electric equipment also and just wanted to make sure that you realize that many of your units will be used in home settings. Lampworkers are a very safety conscious group because the activity of melting glass has hazards already associated with it.

Have your users found oxy purity in the high 80's to be sufficient for their work in soft and hard glass? I know that a highly oxidizing flame is necessary for some applications and was wondering if you have any feedback on that. I was under the perhaps false understanding that the purity was around 95 for most oxy concentrators.
Hey again, this is another of those subjects where we get conflicting opinions. Most everyone we talk to does agree that purity is important. But some claim that they can work with o2 in the 70s. Obviously we want to achieve the highest purity for you, but we cannot match pure o2. The factory specs on most of these units are related to oxygen therapy and life support. I would certinly love to hear opinions on this subject. thanks again for your input and advise. This is great! jack
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  #45  
Old 2006-03-10, 5:30pm
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I had time to do two color tests tonight. I have two M-20's hooked up to a Cuda. With them set at about 7-8 LPM each. It's hot and oxygenated enough to control the haze on triple Passion. I will do many many more tests and keep you guys posted. So far, so good. Pics to come as I make more progress...
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  #46  
Old 2006-03-11, 8:40am
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Thanks again for answering my questions. I don't think you ever said whether you were certified by Respironics.
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  #47  
Old 2006-03-11, 9:26am
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These guys demonstrated their units at the ISGB Gathering last year. I know you're not with the ISGB in the same capacity Pam... but didn't the ISGB get this safety info before they allowed them to show these to the glass working buyers at the ISGB Gathering? Just curious as to why these questions are being asked now. I would have thought all of this had been covered and that you would have some access to that info. Who was in charge of the Gathering last year?
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  #48  
Old 2006-03-11, 9:36am
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Hi Brent, Are you saying that these guys are South Central Cryogenics? I thought they were Unlimited Oxygen. We did have South Central Cryogenics at the Gathering last year and when asked we were told they were selling concentrators.
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  #49  
Old 2006-03-11, 9:41am
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Yeperz... Pam, that's what I already said. They are South Central Cryogenics in Indiana... one in the same.

Now that it's all squared up, did the ISGB ask these questions already? Is the info available to you still? Who was in charge of asking all this before the Gathering?
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Old 2006-03-11, 10:18am
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Brent, as I stated, when asked they told us they were selling concentrators, nothing about modified concentrators. Are you asking does the ISGB ascertain whether a company is producing a product that is safe to use? No, to my knowledge, up to this point in time they haven't, and I don't believe they have employees that have the ability to go out and analyze company's products. Are you saying that you look to the ISGB to determine for you whether a product is safe to use?

And to answer your other question, which I answered on the phone with you the other day, and I am sure you remember the answer and are asking me to repeat it online for some reason, I am the vendor coordinator and in charge of answering questions the vendors pose and assigning the booths in the vendor area at the Gathering. Those are my pre-conference duties. Cathy Finegan is the coordinator for the Gathering, but the board is ultimately in charge of everything sponsored by ISGB, including the Gathering. I'm actually not sure what this has to do with anything I have asked, since I am a member of this forum, just as you are, though I am not a moderator. My position with the Gathering has nothing to do with it.

I'm not quite understanding the attitude, Brent. All I asked is if Unlimited Oxygen/South Central Cryogenics is certified by Respironics. When I asked it the first time Jack very kindly answered that he and his brother are certified by many companies, but never actually said if they were certified specifically by Respironics, and so I was asking that. The reason behind it is that if they are certified to work on Respironic concentrators, then they have been educated to be able to work on these units and so would be more knowledgeable than the average person. You didn't get upset when I asked it the first time, so why now?

You are obviously becoming irritated at my questions and since I don't want to upset a moderator of LE, I will stop posting on this thread.
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  #51  
Old 2006-03-11, 10:34am
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I'm just directing some questions your way without attitude. I was just having an online discussion and thought I was being civil. So sorry Pam, I didn't realize you got upset by questions. You seem to like asking them, so I didn't figure you would mind answering some. I'll refrain in the future if you would prefer, just let me know. That way it can be a one sided conversation. You ask and somebody answers. I really didn't remember you saying you were in charge of the vendors... and yes, I would expect the ISGB to check out the credentials of a torch company or a concentrator company before they allow them to demo something in front of it's members. You kind of jumped my case for suggesting these units without enough info the other day... but you allowed them to be demonstrated in front of a crowd at the ISGB gathering... so what am I missing? I'm not upset at all. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this like you. i want to know as much as possible about these units. Since they were demonstrated at the ISGB Gathering, I figured you would have access to some of this already. Thanks for answering the questions, let me know if it's not alright to ask more in the future.
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  #52  
Old 2006-03-11, 10:45am
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Also, with ABR, Art Glass House, Generations Glass and a host of other distributors I'm not sure enough about to mention, carrying them... I figured they were pretty sound units and although newer to our industry, solid enough for me to buy, try and to mention online. Maybe Jack can give us a complete list of their distributors. I know Wil from The Flow is going to be testing the new Cyclone very soon and has tested the M-20's. He's been giving these guys feedback. I should probably call Wil and ask him what's up. I'd really like all the info I can get.
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Old 2006-03-11, 11:52am
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Also I want to know is if you can give us an estimated price range for the Psyclone I and Psyclone II, and when do you think these units will be available?
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Old 2006-03-11, 1:52pm
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Pam, don't use my being a Moderator as an excuse to bow out. One has nothing to do with another. My involvement in this thread is as a lamp worker... not a Mod. I wear many hats. You haven't upset me. I do think it's silly for you to hold me to a higher standard than you hold others and that's what I was pointing out with the ISGB stuff. Yesterday it wasn't OK for me to reccomend or be excited about this product until I knew it all and until I used them in my personal studio... but the ISGB doesn't have to do any home work??? Why am I held to such a high standard? i am just a glass worker that volunteers to help a website. The ISGB is a much larger organization with much more resources at it's disposal than a single person like myself. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not mad. You can point out my short comings or the short comings of products all you like. Just please don't get upset if you get back some of what you are dishing out. It's not becoming to cry foul when you haven't been treated any different than you have treated others. I'd have to say I was gentler on you than you treated me in another thread. Now, back to the regularly scheduled thread...
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  #55  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:35pm
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Originally Posted by jokersdesign
Also I want to know is if you can give us an estimated price range for the Psyclone I and Psyclone II, and when do you think these units will be available?
Hello, most of our distributors will carry 1 or 2 of these units at a time. I hope you have access to one of these distributors. If you need a list of them and maybe some phone numbers, let me know. These are custom hand made and require several days to build. We will probably have to build them on demand, meaning they will not be in stock. The end price will be set by our distributors. We give them the task of marketing. I will have some pics and specs on these awsome units mid-week. I will keep you posted. These unit are under patent and will be UL listed. jack
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  #56  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:48pm
jokersdesign jokersdesign is offline
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sweet, I'm looking forword to seeing some pictures of the units and getting more information on the specs. I like the idea of connection my own compressurer for more oxygen LPM volume and more PSI.

Build on demand works for me, just as long the waiting period doesn't take months. I order through all the major glass supply distributors. That would be great if you can email me the websites and phone numbers of the distrubutors that will carry your Psyclone I and Psyclone II unit to the following email address.

jokersdesign@yahoo.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxydoc
Hello, most of our distributors will carry 1 or 2 of these units at a time. I hope you have access to one of these distributors. If you need a list of them and maybe some phone numbers, let me know. These are custom hand made and require several days to build. We will probably have to build them on demand, meaning they will not be in stock. The end price will be set by our distributors. We give them the task of marketing. I will have some pics and specs on these awsome units mid-week. I will keep you posted. These unit are under patent and will be UL listed. jack
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  #57  
Old 2006-03-13, 9:16am
Justin L Justin L is offline
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yes, can we see more of the specs of these machines please?
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  #58  
Old 2006-03-16, 11:13am
Larry LaClair Larry LaClair is offline
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Mr. Smiley,
I am the owner of OxygenPlus Medical Systems Inc. Over the years we have established an excellent reputation with the members in the Glass Community.

I have read several posts on this thread and have some serious concerns regarding this product.

I am very uneasy about the " Claims and safety issues " surrounding this oxygen concentrator. I have seen many concentrator operations come and go leaving the owner of equipment hanging in the wind. I also have a vast
background in Bio-medical Specialty areas having over 25 years of experience.


I have listed some FACTS that everyone should consider regarding these modified units.

The average lifespan of the medical version of this unit is 8k to 12k hours.
There are problems with compressor,sievebed, and valve failures within that time period. This is with a new unit right out of the box. These units are factory set to run @ 5 psi. When you start to increase output pressure you sacrifice purity. This is why we do not offer to sell these units to the glass industry.

There are proven companies such as OGSI who sell the OG-15 and
OG-20 models and Suncoast Beads who sell the Integra 10 and Airsep oxygen Generators. I believe they offer a 1 year warranty.


The question was asked about purity levels at the higher flow rates
but have yet to see a reply on it or requested specifications.


I understand you being happy about your units, but you are promoting a product that you yourself have said have limited experience with, and that you would be the test guinea pig for this product.

Your Disclaimer says it all !!

Last year "Unlimited Oxygen" went by the name of "South Central Cryogenics" until they had a fire that reduced their shop to rubble. This information came straight from one of the employees during a telephone conversation with me last year.

Since these units are not new - here are some good questions to have answered. What exactly does the warranty cover ??
Who pays for shipping ?? What purity will it produce at 6'7'8'9'10 lpm
What is the output pressure set at when you ship out the unit.
You stated that if the pressure had to be adjusted to send it back to you, why does it need to be re-adjusted? What parts have been changed or modified ?

When we called anonymously, to get information regarding the kind of modifications that were being made to this unit, We were told by Staff at Unlimited Oxygen that they removed / disconnected the high & low pressure alarm safety features as well as the Oxygen Purity Indicator on these "Modified Units" which come standard on the medical unit. As we were continuing to ask technical questions, we were abruptly hung up on.
Why would you disconnect the Oxygen Purity Indicator feature ??

Respironics does not endorse anyone who makes changes / modifications
to their equipment due to liability issues. These units were not made to operate this way and will pose real problems down the road. Hence the six month warranty.

The question was also asked if Unlimited Oxygen is a respironics certified warranty center ?? Is anyone there certified on the respironic concentrators?

It is my position that this " modified equipment" has NOT proven itself reliable.
It has not been tested in the field, nor is it a safe piece of equipment since modifications have been made to force it to run out of safe parameters.

I would hope to see that South Central Cryogenics / Unlimited Oxygen
would be responsible enough to answer these questions instead of trying to artfully evade them.

Unlimited Oxygen may be operating under a new name next year

I encourage anyone who is considering switching to an oxygen concentrator to due diligent research for all relevant information about the types of torches that can be used in conjunction with the units.
Safety should be paramount

When Quality Matters !!

Larry LaClair
President / CEO
OxygenPlus
1.54.586.9051
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  #59  
Old 2006-03-16, 1:56pm
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kbinkster kbinkster is offline
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It seems plausible that Unlimited Oxygen and South Central Cryogenics could be one in the same. A quick check on Generations Glass leads me to believe they are.

http://www.generationsglass.com/product487.html

This page has the "Unlimited Oxygen Concentrator Users Guide."

But, Brent said that Generations Glas was selling the South Central Cryogenics units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Also, with ABR, Art Glass House, Generations Glass and a host of other distributors I'm not sure enough about to mention, carrying them...
I don't see any unit there called the M-10 or South Central anything.

It appears that the unit South Central is calling the M-10 is being called Unlimited Oxygen P-10 on the Generations Glass Site.

The 20 psi unit sold by Art Glass House is called the Oxycon Unlimited Oxygen 20P.
http://www.artglasshouse.com/prod_de...item=30-2020DS

But, Ron lists the units as being manufactured by South Central Cryogenics.

The other day, I saw the 10 psi unit listed as Unlimited Oxygen P-10 on another site, too. But, that site has since pulled the page and replaced it with one that calls the unit the M-10. That new page has blocked the feature that allows you to see when a page has been created/modified, so I cannot say for sure how long it has been up.

Anyway, this is all very interesting to say the least. I would be interested in a response to this.


Anyone?


Anyone?


Ferris?

PS I am only addressing the possibility of the two companies being one in the same. I have no comment one way or the other about the activities of either company. I don't know whether or not the claims regarding the fire or any resulting litigation are true. It is not unheard of for a company to regroup under a different name after being sued, but I personally don't know if that is the case here.

Last edited by kbinkster; 2006-03-16 at 2:10pm.
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  #60  
Old 2006-03-16, 2:59pm
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Dwaine Scum Dwaine Scum is offline
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Isn't pam the same person claming that Liquid dewars are unsafe? you can freeze your hand and shater it (like it's a statistic in the lampworking comunity?) So all you one handed lamprers, "Throw yo' nubs in the air, wave em' around like you just don't care...."

I swear, I have litterally read some of the most assinine, stupidest propoganda on this forum, and I run a forum about retards, and fart jokes...
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