Lampwork Etc.
 
AKDesign

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Donate via PayPal to donate@lampworketc.com

Glacial Art Glass


 
  #1  
Old 2016-10-03, 5:00am
GravityGlassStudio GravityGlassStudio is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 03, 2016
Location: Central New York
Posts: 14
Default Nortel Major Minor Question

I recently bought a Nortel Major/Minor surface mix torch because I wanted to work bigger. This is my first time working with a larger glass torch. I was particularly interested in the Major/Minor because according to the specs it runs at lower pressures and I'm using an EX-15 extreme oxygen concentrator. When I light the major torch I cannot seem to get long enough cones. I don't know what is wrong I can only seem to get the cones like a 16th on an inch long. I am using 3/16" hose. I've tried as low as 3 psi for propane and I'm not entirely sure what the exact working pressure of the EX 15 is. I have no clue why I'm not getting long enough cones in the flame! Could it be that the EX-15's working pressure is much lower than I thought? I've checked for leaks but there are none. Any assistance here would be greatly appreciated!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2016-10-03, 9:18am
dusty dusty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 568
Default

There are 3 measurements of concern with a concentrator - flow, pressure, and purity.
* Flow is measured in "liters per minute" or LPM - it measures the volume of air, like how many 1 liter balloons it could fill up in a minute
* Pressure is measured in "pounds per square inch" or PSI - it measures the air's pressure, like does it have the lung power to actually blow up a hot water bottle (old-time strong man thing)
* Purity is the percentage of oxygen out of the whole of the concentrators output, like 95% of it might be pure oxygen, with the rest being nitrogen and other non-oxygen air stuff.

A single EX-15 will produce, at best, 8 lpm flow of oxygen at somewhere less than 15 psi pressure (using the full 8 lpm will lower the pressure to something pathetic) and somewhere less than 97% purity (maybe around 93% at 8 lpm, or 95% at 5 lpm, but it varies from machine to machine and over the lifespan of any one machine). Two EX-15's will produce 16 lpm at (at best) 15psi (pressure doesn't change by ganging multiples), and 3 will produce 24 lpm.

A Minor can use about 15 lpm, in my experience, and since a Major has about 10x the ports, it can use a whole lot more than 15 lpm.

Last edited by dusty; 2016-10-03 at 3:54pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2016-10-04, 5:11am
GravityGlassStudio GravityGlassStudio is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 03, 2016
Location: Central New York
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty View Post
There are 3 measurements of concern with a concentrator - flow, pressure, and purity.
* Flow is measured in "liters per minute" or LPM - it measures the volume of air, like how many 1 liter balloons it could fill up in a minute
* Pressure is measured in "pounds per square inch" or PSI - it measures the air's pressure, like does it have the lung power to actually blow up a hot water bottle (old-time strong man thing)
* Purity is the percentage of oxygen out of the whole of the concentrators output, like 95% of it might be pure oxygen, with the rest being nitrogen and other non-oxygen air stuff.

A single EX-15 will produce, at best, 8 lpm flow of oxygen at somewhere less than 15 psi pressure (using the full 8 lpm will lower the pressure to something pathetic) and somewhere less than 97% purity (maybe around 93% at 8 lpm, or 95% at 5 lpm, but it varies from machine to machine and over the lifespan of any one machine). Two EX-15's will produce 16 lpm at (at best) 15psi (pressure doesn't change by ganging multiples), and 3 will produce 24 lpm.

A Minor can use about 15 lpm, in my experience, and since a Major has about 10x the ports, it can use a whole lot more than 15 lpm.
Thank you Dusty! So basically I need to increase my LPMs? Is the only way of doing this by adding more machines and/or getting a bigger one?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2016-10-04, 6:50am
dusty dusty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 568
Default

You're welcome. I'm sorry to say, but the Major/Minor is probably a bad choice, if running on concentrators is your goal. The major is a lot of torch for the money, but it's not very efficient with oxygen - some say that other torches can do about twice as much work with the same oxygen supply.

To power the Major enough to not melt its own face off, I think you'd need somewhere between 3 and 6 EX-15's, and probably around 9 to 12 of them to fully power it.

If you can, the easiest option is to just use tanks for the Major part of the Major/Minor. I'd still add a second concentrator so that you can get the most out of the Minor, then only use the Major when you really have to. If this works for you, you can get a Homefill machine to fill tanks for you overnight, but those tend to need frequent fixing.

If you can get liquid oxygen, you could just run both fires off of that and not worry about oxygen use ever again, just fill your tank when you need it.

If you have access to somebody handy, a DIY HVLP oxygen system might serve the same purpose. Or, if you have money, you can buy a pre-made set-up from OxygenFrog or HVO.

If you can use natural gas instead of propane, that'll help cut back on your oxygen use a little bit.

Basically, you can either get tanks/liquid and spend money and deal with the supplier every time your tank is empty, or sit down and do a lot of research to really understand your other options. Lots of info on HVLP systems and Homefills over at talkglass.com. Running a Major directly off of concentrators is really not something that people do.

If you're set on running directly off of concentrators and not using tanks, HVLP, or homefill, then you should consider a different torch - probably a Bethlehem Bravo, GTT Sidewinder, GTT Scorpion, Carlisle Hellcat, Knight Bullet - basically any torch with two stages and somewhere between 12 and 21 ports - but you could go ahead and get your (3+) concentrators ready and try the Major on them, just to make sure it isn't going to work out.

Last edited by dusty; 2016-10-04 at 7:47am.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2016-10-04, 8:07am
GravityGlassStudio GravityGlassStudio is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 03, 2016
Location: Central New York
Posts: 14
Default

Thanks again Dusty. Yeah I've already contacted local welding suppliers about oxygen tanks. One concentrator is enough for me, it works fine with the minor so I'll keep it for that.

Last edited by GravityGlassStudio; 2016-10-04 at 8:24am.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:15am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 3.80.3.192