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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

Beads of Courage


 
  #1  
Old 2006-08-17, 11:28pm
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Default My Betta is Hot!! Can you help?

Hello. I was so excited when the plumber came today to hook up my natural gas. I have been waiting a little over a year for my studio to be done. So I jumped right onto my new Betta torch and have burnt everything.... really really bad. Granted I'm a newbie, but I have taken a class before...it was awhile ago, so maybe I’ve just forgotten all I thought I still remembered. I was taught on a Bobcat and actually bought a Lynx, but then before I hooked it up, I bought the Betta since I would be using NG and heard that it would run better than a Lynx. I'm now wondering if I should hook up the Lynx and see if I can get that to work. Anyway, I digress.
When I say burned...my clear is black. My white got that black stuff on it like when you burn a candle that's in a glass jar, you get the soot on it. Yep, same stuff on my glass rods.
How do I turn down the heat? I tried more oxygen and less Natural Gas, and vise versa, but either way, still charred to a crisp. I do have two devilbliss oxycon, but I was only running one because it seemed hot enough.
Please help...I think it's time I start looking for a refresher course for lampworking 101 But maybe someone could give me some quick pointers in the meantime.

Thanks,
Lauren
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  #2  
Old 2006-08-17, 11:31pm
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That happened to me and I was told I had to much oxygen I was told that it was something that was from the oxygen that was on the beads. I am fairly new too but thought I would share what I was told good luck
Lori
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  #3  
Old 2006-08-18, 3:21am
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Try working a little further out in the flame. Close to the torch face is rich in unburnt fuel. It sounds like you have too much NG in the mix, but can't really tell without being there. If you work further out and it's still happening, try backing off the NG. It's a learning curve and it's harder when nobody is there to show you. We'll walk you through it the best we can online.
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  #4  
Old 2006-08-18, 6:21am
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Maybe you can post a picture of your flame? We could help more if we could see that.
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  #5  
Old 2006-08-18, 7:46am
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My camera cord is on it's way back to me (I left it in Maine) So I will be able to take pictures this afternoon.

I must say I tried both turning the oxygen up and NG down and vise versa. When I worked in the end of the flame (I do not remember if it was more NG or Oxy at that point) is when I noticed the most amount of soot.

But I guess I'll just have to light it up again and keep trying. To bad that means a whole day in front of the torch!

Thank you so far for your help, I will get those pictures posted as soon as the cord arrives...I'll even post pictures of my "clear" beads...that look like a translucent black. One even has bits of orange in it...not sure how I managed that, but you'll see.

Thanks,
Lauren
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  #6  
Old 2006-08-18, 9:20am
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What do your candles look like? With NG, it is hard to tell if you are running a fuel-rich flame because the tips are white instead of yellow, and are a little harder to see.

For a neutral flame, you will want to run your candles 1/4" to 3/8" long and have tiny tips. The shorter your candles, the less tips. But again, it is hard to see them when using NG.

Oxygen is your friend. Fuel needs oxygen to burn completely. Oxygen does not deposit soot onto your glass. If your fuel is not completely combusted, like from too little oxygen, the carbon from your fuel will deposit onto your glass.

Also, Smiley is right about how the fuel is not completely combusted close in to the torch face. So, make sure that you are not working right off the face of the torch. It is combusted more completely a couple of inches from the tips of the candles. So, try working about 3" to 4" or so out from the face and see if that helps.

The slower yuou work, the further out you will want to stay. As you get faster, move in closer.

And about the Lynx... The Lynx does not run at 1/4 psi fuel. It needs about 2- 2.5 psi to run properly.

I hope this helps.

PS Are any of your candles excessively longer (like by at least half the length) than any others, or are they pretty even?
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  #7  
Old 2006-08-18, 6:46pm
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Here are the pictures I promised. The first is more NG, subsequencly I also took a photo of my rod of clear after using it in the flame as well as the beads I made. They are both clear glass...the one with orange has green and blue encased in the clear.
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  #8  
Old 2006-08-18, 6:48pm
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And here is the Flame with more oxygen, less NG...all my glass was bubbleing (sp?), it seemed like it was boiling. I always thought oxy was hotter than NG, that's why I was concerned about turning the NG gas down.

Thank you for all your help guys! I've been a lurker for awhile, seldom post...but now that I have my torch, I'm so excited...I've been jealous of you guys for awhile!
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  #9  
Old 2006-08-18, 6:55pm
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Send it back to Bethlehem. That center candle is waaaaaaay too long. That's what's known as a bad bud.
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  #10  
Old 2006-08-18, 6:57pm
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BTW, oxygen will actually cool your flame down. But with that center candle like it is, no amount of adjusting is going to correct the problem. That is a factory defect and should be covered under the warranty.
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  #11  
Old 2006-08-18, 7:01pm
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really? I was just hoping that I didn't have it adjusted correctly. I just bought it from Generations Glass on the 2nd. Yesterday was it's first time on and then today. Do I talk to Generations Glass or Bethlehem?

I was so excited to work at the torch this entire weekend :/

Thank you Thank you Thank you, You guys are so helpful

Lauren
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  #12  
Old 2006-08-18, 7:02pm
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What should the center candle look like? Sorry for all the questions.
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  #13  
Old 2006-08-18, 7:11pm
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Well, it should be even with the other candles. But, on the Piranha (the centerfire for the larger Bethlehem torches), the center candle tends to be a little bit longer than the rest. That's why I asked if it was longer by half again the length of the other candles.

I would call Kristian and ask him what he wants you to do. He is super friendly/helpful. He may ask that you send it to him or that you call Bethlehem Apparatus.

PS Don't ever be sorry for asking questions!
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  #14  
Old 2006-08-18, 9:17pm
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Do you think that is why everything is becoming so sooty and charred? Or is that still something I have to work on adjusting with the flame?
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  #15  
Old 2006-08-18, 9:31pm
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Yes, that candle is keeping the flame fuel rich. A fuel rich flame is a reducing flame. If you were running propane, it would look even worse.

The fuel is not being combusted completely. Carbon from the unburned fuel coming out of that center jet is depositing onto your glass in the form of soot.

If your torch were working correctly, you would be able to control the fuel/oxygen mix with your valves.
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  #16  
Old 2006-08-18, 10:17pm
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Thank you very much! I'll have to give them a call. I knew it had been awhile since I took my class, but I couldn't ever remember having this problem before or learning anything about it when I was in class. I hope they are in tomorrow, if not, I'll just have to wait until Monday.

Thanks again,
Lauren
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  #17  
Old 2006-08-19, 12:16am
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You're welcome, Lauren. If I can be of any more help, just let me know.
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  #18  
Old 2006-08-19, 3:38am
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If you have a cleaning wire, you may want to try clearing the port... it may just have a piece of something blocking the oxy to that port. It's definitely got issues, but it may not need to be sent in. I'd call Kristian and see what he says. I'd also call Bethlehem before you send it in. They may have an easy fix for you. Some times dirt in a line or something minor causes issues like this.
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  #19  
Old 2006-08-19, 8:39am
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Thank you! I'm definitely bummed, but feel a little better that it's not just a newbie mistake about not having the correct levels of Oxy and NG.
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  #20  
Old 2006-08-19, 8:48am
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Generations Glass is closed until the 28th of Aug I was so close to having everything set up, but I've waited a year...what's one more week.
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  #21  
Old 2006-08-19, 9:29am
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Call Bethlehem on Monday.

Fuel comes out of the tubes. There is no tool provided with the torch to clean the oxygen ports, as the oxygen comes through the dead space around the tubes and the little slots behind the tubes on the sides (Brent, you should know this).

It looks like there is too much fuel coming out of the center tube. So, unfortunately, sticking the cleaning wire (provided with your torch) down that tube will not do anything.

Now, if that cone were excessively short, indicating a block in the gas jet, cleaning the port might help.

It appears that the long jet originates from the center. Is that the case? If it were a yellow/white finger originating from one of the side jets, let me know and I may be able to help you with it. But, if it is indeed coming out of the center as it appears in the photographs, then there's nothing that can be done - it's a toch defect, and it should have never been let out of the shop like that.
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  #22  
Old 2006-08-19, 12:47pm
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I do know that and I have use a thin cleaning wire to clean bits from the dead space where the oxy comes out. My CC was designed in much the same way. I was just trying to save her the effort of sending it in if there was something lodged in the space where the oxy is delivered. It looks like that may be the case. It may be a factory defect or it may be something that was in the line.
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  #23  
Old 2006-08-19, 1:57pm
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This is a brand new torch, brand new set-up. There is no reason to believe that there would be dirt in the lines from a new hose set. But it doesn't matter: Anything big enough to cause a problem like that at the head of the torch would have never made it past the valves.

The problem occurred right out of the box, so, there is no reason to believe that glass got in there to cause the problem.

I remember reading where someone mentioned a one-day turn-around on Beth issues.

At any rate, if it were a problem that I believed she could fix herself, I would have been the first to walk her through it.


EDIT: It was Brent (Mr. Smiley) who said that Bethlehem has a "one day turn around" on post #8 in this thread:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...hlight=service

That is very fast. You should take advantage of that quick service and send it directly to Bethlehem instead of going through the "middle man."

You should be back up and running in no time!

Last edited by kbinkster; 2006-08-20 at 9:04am.
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  #24  
Old 2006-08-19, 2:18pm
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well im gonna speak up here...This isnt an isolated problem. The betta I got did this too. When I asked around in chat and what not I was told it might be because I was running tanked propane and not natural gas. I decided the torch just wasnt for me I didnt really like the feeling of it or the flame consistancy so I sold it thinking someone who had natural gas it would work better for them. Now im feeling bad because im affraid that person got a bunk torch because that flame is EXACTLY what the betta did when I hooked the one up I had bought that was brand new. I did even try cleaning it with the wire and it didnt fix it. So I took the advice that was given and just figured it was because my gas pressure was too high for the torch but with my setup I cant turn it down any lower or my regulator doesnt work correctly. Ill also say I believe i have spoke with at least 1-2 others who have had the same issue but they had figured out some way to work around it I think by working in an incredibly low flame and low pressures.
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Old 2006-08-19, 2:54pm
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I don't think it is that you ran it on propane. I run mine on propane and have no problems at all. The pressure is set at about 4.
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Old 2006-08-19, 3:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IF-Designs
Ill also say I believe i have spoke with at least 1-2 others who have had the same issue but they had figured out some way to work around it I think by working in an incredibly low flame and low pressures.
Actually, running a short, low flame all the time can eventually cause other problems - like where the center tube erodes back prematurely (despite you-know-who saying that you can run all the low flames you want and not worry about anything happening).

These people should not have to work around a problem like that. They should be able to send the torch back in to the manufacturer and have it repaired or replaced.

Continuing to run it the way you describe will just cause damage that the manufacturer will probably NOT cover under warranty.
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Old 2006-08-19, 4:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmaw
I don't think it is that you ran it on propane. I run mine on propane and have no problems at all. The pressure is set at about 4.
Jo it wasnt that I was running propane it was the pressure I have to run my regulator at 7psi or higher it a funky lil thing...so we figured it was because of that why I was getting that weird cone so I just figured it wasnt the torch for me but now im not so sure......Im wondering if they got a bad batch of parts for the center buds or something...and the torches they built around that time that got those are screwy like that.
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Old 2006-08-19, 4:18pm
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Lauren,
Is it possible that the problem is with your oxy con instead of the torch? I get a flame that looks a lot like that (long center candle) on my Piranha as I turn the oxy down (or the fuel up). You said that you have two concentrators. You might try the other concentrator and see if the problem persists. After you light the torch, set the oxy con at 4-5 LPM and then see if you can get a good flame by adjusting the gas.
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Old 2006-08-19, 4:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IF-Designs
Jo it wasnt that I was running propane it was the pressure I have to run my regulator at 7psi or higher it a funky lil thing...so we figured it was because of that why I was getting that weird cone so I just figured it wasnt the torch for me but now im not so sure......Im wondering if they got a bad batch of parts for the center buds or something...and the torches they built around that time that got those are screwy like that.
I think it might be a screwy batch of torches. I have run my propane at over 7 when I was using it with tanked oxy, and it was beautiful.
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Old 2006-08-20, 4:53am
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I've run mine with several different pressures and had great results at those levels. If it's not something in the torch blocking the flow, then it's a defective torch. In which case I know Beth will take care of it in a timely manner. All you have to do is call and tell them what is going on. They'll fix you right up.

Karin, I wish I would have known about your issues before you sold it. I think you'd be really happy with one that runs right. I know I am.
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