glass pipe

[Emily]

Originally Posted by smutboy420

PYREX is illlegal to own in the state of texas without a permit. Even raw tube and rod also ANY glass item that can hold more then 5 litters or more is illegal in texas. or any thing that can even be constued as "Lab ware" like for instance a measering cup made of pyrex. A Pyrex pie plate, A beaker, flask

I know I swore I wasn't going to get into this, but I just had to look this up. (Besides, I'm pretty sure a couple of my Pyrex measuring cups -- the red ones, not the big blue one -- came from a Target in Dallas.) In Texas, you need a permit to own certain precursor chemicals (those are chemicals that can be used to manufacture illegal drugs) and certain types of laboratory glassware. Here's the list of the lab equipment:

"Chemical laboratory apparatus" means any item of equipment designed, made, or adapted to manufacture a controlled substance or a controlled substance analogue, including:

(A) a condenser;
(B) a distilling apparatus;
(C) a vacuum drier;
(D) a three-neck or distilling flask;
(E) a tableting machine;
(F) an encapsulating machine;
(G) a filter, Buchner, or separatory funnel;
(H) an Erlenmeyer, two-neck, or single-neck flask;
(I) a round-bottom, Florence, thermometer, or filtering flask;
(J) a Soxhlet extractor;
(K) a transformer;
(L) a flask heater;
(M) a heating mantel; or
(N) an adaptor tube.

Here's where I got the list: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimina...sapparatus.htm

(By the way, Texas state senator Bob Glasgow was awarded the 1994 Ig Nobel prize in chemistry for sponsoring this legislation. The Ig Nobel prizes are awarded by The Annals of Improbable Research magazine and should not be confused with the Nobel Prizes. For example, one year the Ig Nobel Peace Prize was given to the inventor of karaoke.)

Here's a scientific glassware supplier that has a note on its website advising Texas residents that they must have appropriate permits to purchase the items on this list. http://www.crscientific.com/texas-glassware.html

I didn't see anything on the Texas Department of Public Safety website, or anywhere else, suggesting that it was illegal to own borosilicate rod or tubing, much less Pyrex pie plates and cups. I've never seen any warnings on websites of glass suppliers suggesting that Texas residents would be restricted from purchasing boro without a permit.

[smutboy420]

Boro is fine as long as its not pyrex brand.

You can also have raw tube and rod if your an acredided scientific blower. without a permit in TX. there used to be a big supplier in TX that would always want to knew what permit # some one had. Before they would sell tube. and if you said it ws for art they would hang up the phone on you.

Thw texas law does not spell out pie plates specificly but rather say ANY item made out of pyrex is labware and that all lab ware is for making drugs.

In a lab they don't call it a pie pan tho its called an evaperation dish.
and when its a square or rextangle pyrex backing dish its called a recrystalization tray.

there are only 2 items in that. list about that are stricly only for drug manifactoring and both of them items are illegal to own or inquire about buying even in all 50 states. without not only the dea's premishion but you also need the FDA To aprove ownership. and thats the pill presses cause there is no resone to have a pill press inless your making somethign thats to be consumed. And the FDA whats to know If you making pills even if they are vitimins becasuse they go in to some ones body. and only big time drug operations shell out the $35,000-$75,000 it cost to buy a pill press.
evey one of them items is every day reg labware that would be used any day in all sorts of legal things and hobbies.

But because its so stupid hardly any one follows it esp if they are not doing anything wrong they don't even think twice as to if it might be illegal. and hardly any one knows its the law esp outside of tx.

Like a Co in NY or NJ is not going to know it or even care. What a law in tx is because its not any thing that would concern them, it would be there customers problem to find out if its legal or not.

Its not some thing thats enforced and becasue its intent is to some how pretend it would stop someone from making illegal drugs if they wanted to.
I don't think they will change there mind if they know that the labware might be against the law. (oh lets make drugs no wait we might go to jail for having a flask)
I don't think the cops are staking out wallmts looking to bust house wives buying a bakeing dish. But that don't mean they can't if they wanted to. the law is on there side ANY item made of pyrex. means ANY item made out of pyrex if they want to press the point.

[Bunyip]

I tell you right now, if I was ever arrested for posession of borosilicate glass I would flip my lid and go all litigious on them.

Thank god I don't live in Texas. Someone could make a bundle on an civil liberties case.. but I'd rather spend that time at the torch.

[smutboy420]

Don't they know you can make a pipe out of a coke can........

In my a dirty used coke can pipe will get you 30-45 days in jail. and a $350 fine
But a clean unused glass pipe is compleatly legal. Residue or admishion of intent by the person that had it is the only thing thats considered as evidance in a court of law in NY state. Depending on what substance was PROVED to be in it determans the severaty of the crime. If it was pot its useally just a fine but it can be up to 10 days in jail and/or a fine. But they useally just want the fine. Inless its crack then they usealy throw in the clink for a while.

So in NY they know a soda can COULD be used as a crack pipe. But its not a crack pipe till some one puts crack in to it. Or what ever else.

[meadowesky]

In my area pipes are legal as long as there is no carb. I think that is a town law because they are sold in bloomington and other bigger towns with carbs.
it is only illegal to have one if it has resin in it.

[Juliac]

They're legal in Calif if you use the correct term for them.
Raven, make pokers (pipe cleaners). They're cheap, easy and sell well and you don't have to worry about the whole pipe thing!

[AlivELampworK]

Originally Posted by smutboy420

PYREX is illlegal to own in the state of texas without a permit. Even raw tube and rod also ANY glass item that can hold more then 5 litters or more is illegal in texas. or any thing that can even be constued as "Lab ware" like for instance a measering cup made of pyrex. A Pyrex pie plate, A beaker, flask

Intent is not considered and is not allowed as a defence. IE it don't matter to the state if you have for 100% legal ressone. PYREX only for drug manifacturing If you don't have a permit for it.

I think thats 100x's more stupid then any laws saying someone can't sell used pipe with residue in it. or imply its for illegal drug use.

Originally Posted by Emily

I know I swore I wasn't going to get into this, but I just had to look this up. (Besides, I'm pretty sure a couple of my Pyrex measuring cups -- the red ones, not the big blue one -- came from a Target in Dallas.) In Texas, you need a permit to own certain precursor chemicals (those are chemicals that can be used to manufacture illegal drugs) and certain types of laboratory glassware. Here's the list of the lab equipment:



Here's where I got the list: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimina...sapparatus.htm

(By the way, Texas state senator Bob Glasgow was awarded the 1994 Ig Nobel prize in chemistry for sponsoring this legislation. The Ig Nobel prizes are awarded by The Annals of Improbable Research magazine and should not be confused with the Nobel Prizes. For example, one year the Ig Nobel Peace Prize was given to the inventor of karaoke.)

Here's a scientific glassware supplier that has a note on its website advising Texas residents that they must have appropriate permits to purchase the items on this list. http://www.crscientific.com/texas-glassware.html

I didn't see anything on the Texas Department of Public Safety website, or anywhere else, suggesting that it was illegal to own borosilicate rod or tubing, much less Pyrex pie plates and cups. I've never seen any warnings on websites of glass suppliers suggesting that Texas residents would be restricted from purchasing boro without a permit.

Originally Posted by smutboy420

Boro is fine as long as its not pyrex brand.

You can also have raw tube and rod if your an acredided scientific blower. without a permit in TX. there used to be a big supplier in TX that would always want to knew what permit # some one had. Before they would sell tube. and if you said it ws for art they would hang up the phone on you.

Thw texas law does not spell out pie plates specificly but rather say ANY item made out of pyrex is labware and that all lab ware is for making drugs.

In a lab they don't call it a pie pan tho its called an evaperation dish.
and when its a square or rextangle pyrex backing dish its called a recrystalization tray.

there are only 2 items in that. list about that are stricly only for drug manifactoring and both of them items are illegal to own or inquire about buying even in all 50 states. without not only the dea's premishion but you also need the FDA To aprove ownership. and thats the pill presses cause there is no resone to have a pill press inless your making somethign thats to be consumed. And the FDA whats to know If you making pills even if they are vitimins becasuse they go in to some ones body. and only big time drug operations shell out the $35,000-$75,000 it cost to buy a pill press.
evey one of them items is every day reg labware that would be used any day in all sorts of legal things and hobbies.

But because its so stupid hardly any one follows it esp if they are not doing anything wrong they don't even think twice as to if it might be illegal. and hardly any one knows its the law esp outside of tx.

Like a Co in NY or NJ is not going to know it or even care. What a law in tx is because its not any thing that would concern them, it would be there customers problem to find out if its legal or not.

Its not some thing thats enforced and becasue its intent is to some how pretend it would stop someone from making illegal drugs if they wanted to.
I don't think they will change there mind if they know that the labware might be against the law. (oh lets make drugs no wait we might go to jail for having a flask)
I don't think the cops are staking out wallmts looking to bust house wives buying a bakeing dish. But that don't mean they can't if they wanted to. the law is on there side ANY item made of pyrex. means ANY item made out of pyrex if they want to press the point.

wow. i have no idea what is true.. and i have NEVER heard about any of this. and i go to school for scientific glassblowing, so you think this would be something to talk about. but outlawing pyrex is a totally ridiculous. do you think that you have to have a permit to buy labware.. not raw pyrex? why would pyrex be outlawed when you can buy.... kimble, schott, kimax.... tubing/rod.

and not all scientific ware is made out of pyrex.

i think you're confused that you can't buy labware without a permit.. and if you really need the labware i don't think its a big deal to have to go through the permit process.

weird.

[smutboy420]

and not all scientific ware is made out of pyrex.

i think you're confused that you can't buy labware without a permit.. and if you really need the labware i don't think its a big deal to have to go through the permit process.

I have never had a problem buying lab ware any way you just useally have to sign a disclamer saying it is not INTENDED for any thing illegal any way.

same as most chemicals. The assumtion is that no one wil lie if they are going to be up to no good and then if they do lie the place that sold it is covered if they had no knolage of it.

Its not something I ever even hear about anymore esp on supplies.
and as far as I know its not enforced.
but as far as the speficics only saying pyrex by brabd name is prob to do with the govermet not having a clue about 1/2 the stuff they propose.

But it does cover all brands of ready made lab ware.

and any one in the scientific field should keep curant on the other laws regarding "watched" lab ware like the fed anti meth aphamine prolifaration bill.

its kind of just like the laws on pipes and says you can NOT willingly sell any thing that you know will be used for illegal reasons. WhY any one would is crassy. But You should discuss that in class sence it pretains to all scientific glass ware. BUt unlike the pipe laws the scientific blowers are assumed on the right side of the law intill they break it.

Who knows the TX thing might of been repealed. because I do know there was a guy that had a 30 litter flaske he bought off ebay and he got convicted for having extacy manifacturing items, He was fighting it last I knew because he only had it for "COOL EFFECT"

I look in to It I know so places I can find lists i even have the secret watched list some where. thats the list that its legal to sell to someone from but you are supposed to turn around and repeort them for. or else you can be in trouble for selling it the sale is not reported to the dea with in 30 days.

evey one should be aware of that if in the scientific glass field just to cover there own butt.

[AlivELampworK]

i'm really confused. i will definitely look into this, because that seems very odd. why should a company be responsible for what their customer is doing with their product? could a texas resident purchase scientific ware from out of state? there are so many shops in the US.. i just don't understand why texas would have such a law.

[smutboy420]

Sorry that the Tx labware law thing derailed the orignal ? of is it "good Idea" or not.

Even if by the letter of the law its is compleatly legal. that don't mean you can't still get busted or even just screwed with and hasseled all the time even if your not breaking any law. So I would have to say NO its not a Good idea to get in to pipes if your not already in to doing them. Or if you have no other intrest in them except For it being just for the $$$. If you just had to start busting out a few pipes just because you wanted to try some new techs or because you just thought "hey they are cool I want to make some of them"
Well law or no law or enforcmet or not. Nothing is going to keep any one from just doing a few to keep to them or crush in to frit after if that worried about the law. inless things get so bad that as soon as you decide to make a pipe the police have picked yo up on there scaners and are there to get you before its out of the kiln.


But the texas labware thing and what can be considered labware in tx should be anouther thread.

But

i just don't understand why texas would have such a law.

Uh um cause it texas. Just kiding.

I have been tring to find some old stuff on the net but google just isn't what it used to be. But I did find a few things that pretained to normal mundane owner ship of glass ware in texas.

Here is a home decorating artical that had all kinds of "CHEAP" "COOL" ideas for home decorating with stuff found at fle markets.

And Here is a web discution from readers about how If some inocent persone in texas did any of the things in the artical they would "technicly" be breaking the law.

But it made me think of all the times some one says oh well if some one is not going to be up to no good all they have to do is Just go get a permit.
and there fine. Well thats great for some one that say runs a Co and should be aware of stuff like that. But the every day inocent things where some one has some thing that they don't even consider to be any thing that would have any kind of law at all. (being that they are not up to no good why would they be thinking like some one thats up to no good.)

here is a site about home brewing and it has a note of warning to any one in tx. (towards the bottom. )
Because home brewing is pretty common and its a hobby some one tends to read up on and there are web sites and other ways to diseminate the info some one may be lucky enought to find out about the law and "just go get a permit" and be in the clear.

But the items that YOU need a permit for in Tx like a simple beaker or flask
and the law regarding even out of state sellers selling "ANY" flask or beaker to ANY one in Tx. Can have reprecutions. To someone not even giving it a thought if they don't sell "LABWARE"

Like for intance someone that just took a class in lets say new york, Ca, Fl Or they go to a show where they see the latest electroformed snizzel going on and the first thing they want to do is get home to Tx and get on the web and order a kit. With every thing all ready to do there thing.
Ok they see a link let even say its a link from some one here selling an electro forming or electro plating kit. and it has every thing they need including a few pyrex Griffin breakers. They see the price they shop around they even read up on the safty and all that good stuff and they decide to click a banner and paypal away.

I won't bet a lot of buyers that even lived in Tx would know that they need a premit to own a griffin beaker. (a griffin are the ones with the pouring lip and Milliliter markings on the side.)

Now I would be even less inclined to think that the seller that put together a few kits would even be thinking about the legality of the beakers If sent to a customer in Tx if the seller was in some state that din't have any law about a simple pyrex beaker being against the law.

Now if in the 1 in a million chance that some gung-ho law enforcment person in Tx some how shape or form In inform some on has these beakers and hes hell bent on busting the person that has em. The law also says the person sending it is in trouble if they don't have a premit to sell in tx or even ask if the customer has a permit to be buying it.

To me tho a small chance it is legaly posable and could happen and become a $100,000 legal odisey to prove your not guilty of any thing bad even if guilty of the law. makes it kind of the same as pipes but worse.
Because I would think it would have higher #'s of someone that does not even wonder if there is any thing legal or not legal about it some thing that simple. And more the likly only INTENDED for the beakers to be for someone to use in there shop to make beads.

[Dasi]

You can learn about the arrests by doing a google search on
OPERATION PIPE DREAMS.

I am not sure of the laws in Canada, but the law is very clear, this is against most law in most states....Like it or not.

At the gathering in Portland I learned all about this operation that put hundreds of glass workers in jail in a one day operation. I don't think the charges held but the big internet businesses were hurt.

Here is a start at alll the articles on the arrests across the country in 2003 when the major crackdowns started.

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/pressrel/pr022403.html

[hadleyglass]

so... lets say its 1793. would all of you support the fugitive slave act. i mean like it or not, it was a law

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

I got the video from Sundance, and even if I never make a pipe, it teaches a lot about boro.

I got this from Brenty! Pretty beautiful huh? No,no,no, I don't smoke it no more, but hubby did until he got hired where they drug testing. Up until last year it was legal in Alaska to have 3 ounces in your home, or grow it for your own consumption, then the stupid Governor contested the law on his way out of office.

[raven_spirit]

i never thought this topic would go so deep into descussion.

[AlivELampworK]

Originally Posted by hadleyglass

so... lets say its 1793. would all of you support the fugitive slave act. i mean like it or not, it was a law

reguardless of legislature to stop it, pipemaking is such a huge part of the glass community..like it or not. thats just how it is.. there are so many people who look past the legality of it.

Originally Posted by raven_spirit

i never thought this topic would go so deep into descussion.

whenever pipes are brought up its a HUGE discussion. this isn't even the tip of the iceberg.


and by the way, i am not a pipe maker and will never make a pipe.. for my beliefs. but there are a TON, i repeat a TON of pipe makers out there that i would love to have their artistic abilities.

[AdamCotter]

thats messed up. another reason to steer clear of texas

The real trouble is India. They wholesale so cheap you wouldn't believe. Google inside out pipe wholesale Five to ten dollars for 2 hours of work. Bleack.

[beadaholic]

I believe most are confusing state laws with federal laws. In some states they are not "illegal" to own, while at a federal level they can come in and get you (even if they don't or won't)....so it is a gray area. I really believe that it is illegal in all states, just that some don't bother with it. Which technically doesn't make it legal. Anyway, I wish you could own them if you want to, toys too, it is personal and the government has no business in personal business (to me)....I have some very cool tibetian ritual items made of human bone and those are illegal in the US as well (good thing I am in Mexico, probably illegal here too but there is no one to bother with it and no one knows where I live either hehe)

[topher wren]

There is so many people making them . From 1990 to 1995 following the grateful dead they were every where. black plastic suit cases full , selling as ya walked. I would like to know the proceedurs that are used to make pipes, but I myself as a dead head like the idea of doing better things in glass than pipes. Beads and pendants , lamp pulls , whishing stones , coasters ,Christmas ormaments etc. Alot of glass on tour were pipes from beginning glass blowers looking to make cash fast . they were nice , but not untill I went to colorado on pearl street did I spy very nice pyrex pipes for above 80.00 a small pipe price. It would be nice to have the knowledge , but I would feel a little better on going on tour selling something people could see and enjoy than hideing it away . Not to mention having to yell six up every time a cop is seen...LoL

[Norskiglass]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Yeah. Many of the techniques used today came from pipe-makers. Inside-out beads came from pipes. Reversals, wig-wags, and similar techniques also came from pipes.

Some techniques, like reticellos, have been used for hundreds of years in traditional furnace glass blowing, but I firmly believe that if pipe-makers had not adopted those techniques to be used in their own work, you wouldn't see them around these days.

It all depends who you share your bench space with.....that is a pretty big "claim to fame" for the retticello,and or montage techniques in lampworking belonging to the pipe makers.....[/quote] but I firmly believe that if pipe-makers had not adopted those techniques to be used in their own work, you wouldn't see them around these days[/quote]

What about Kurt Wallstab or even Albin Schaedel!?!? I really think they got into the game for innovation,art,and above all working with glass.....not for the love of the allmighty dollar.

I believe that people will do just about anything for money these days and if that entails using your glass materials for sex toys or pipes ~so be it.

I see glass very much as I see a woman.....I would never whore her out but rather admire her beauty...... no offense,but it set me off there a little bit when I saw this thread check out some history:


Toward the end of the 19th century a Bohemian father-son team, Leopold and Rudolf Blaschka, combined to create what is still arguably the most stunning example of lampwork the world has ever seen. They were already widely known for their glass models of marine invertebrates when George Lincoln Goodale, Harvard Professor and director of the Museum of Botany , commissioned them to undertake a mammoth project, the creation of detailed botanical models of common and exotic plants from Europe and North America. Benefactors of the project were Elizabeth Ware and her daughter Mary Lee Ware. Using only a simple bellows-driven lamp and a variety of home-made tools, the Blaschkas produced the models using wire frameworks to give them structure and enamels and paints to duplicate the coloration and texture of the plants. The results were stunning! The models were so lifelike, that even close scrutiny cannot distinguish between them and the real thing. Over the next 50 years, some 840 life-size model sets of plants and over 3000 oversized models of magnified plant parts and anatomical sections were produced. Most of the models are still on display at the Harvard Botanical Museum on the Harvard campus. To this day, no one has ever succeeded in reproducing the Blaschka's techniques or in duplicating the quality of their models.

The demand for refined scientific instruments continued unabated through the 19th century. Although equipment and tools became more sophisticated, the basic material - the glass - was essentially the same as when "Crystallo" was invented 200 years before. The most commonly used types of glass were prone to leaching when exposed to caustic chemicals and had a tendency to shatter when heated and cooled repeatedly. In 1924 the scientists at the glass factories in Corning, New York invented a new, more resilient glass which was composed of a large percentage of uncombined silica, used boron instead of soda, and contained a small percentage of aluminum for clarity. Reference 8 This new borosilicate glass, named Pyrex, had a very low coefficient of expansion and was very resistant to thermal and physical shock. Since it was about 15% lighter by volume than soda-lime or flint glass but much stronger, Pyrex was ideal for apparati. However there was one problem: the melting temperature was so high that the old forced-air lamps could not melt it. A new method of heating the glass was now needed to work the new material.

Borrowing from the welding trade and combining oxygen and natural gas, new burners were designed that produced a flame of sufficient heat to melt Pyrex. Traditional oil lamps were replaced by torches that were clamped to the lampworker’s benchtop. These too were eventually replaced by the modern surface-mix bench burners in use today.

The advent of Pyrex revolutionized lampworking in North America. It was almost as if lampworking was invented all over again. Although developed for scientific instruments, Pyrex soon found its way into the hands of artisans who adapted the glass for "artistic" and novelty pieces. ‘Glassblowers’ began showing up at county fairs and tourist attractions across the US making and selling their items in front of appreciative crowds. All across America, the public came to associate ‘glassblowing’ with the lampworkers they encountered at carnivals, theme parks, and later at shopping malls. Typical items included blown swans full of colored water and little spun glass ships and animals that could be made cheaply and sold quickly. Quality and creativity were not relevant issues and lampworkers copied each other mercilessly until all novelty lampwork started to look alike. In a bizarre twist of reasoning, the more established lampworkers then took to erecting veils of secrecy, presumably to protect ‘their’ designs and techniques. Lampworkers would refuse to work in front of or even speak to anyone they thought might be another lampworker. Naturally, this greatly inhibited the development of the fledgling art form. This veil of secrecy came to be known as the ‘glass curtain’.
In Europe, however, the introduction of borosilicate glass did not denote the death toll for old traditions. In the town of Lauscha in particular, the local craftsmen continued working strictly with German soda-lime glass, busily perfecting centuries-old techniques and perhaps unconsciously crossing the line from novelty to art. In particular, Albin Schaedel developed and perfected a technique called "montage" that would come to characterize East German lampwork from the 1960’s on. Montage is simply the assembly of many pieces of tubing into one larger bubble which is then shaped into the final vessel form. This technique is incredibly difficult and time-consuming and Schaedel and a few other Lauschans were the only ones in the world who had mastered it until recently. The vessels that resulted were impossibly intricate and very, very beautiful. Perhaps the greatest master of montage is West German flameworker Kurt Wallstab, whose work is internationally acclaimed for its beauty and perfection.

[Karen Hardy]

Living here in California, I can't throw a stone without hitting
a head shop. Especially here by the beach.
They just opened up one down the road from me, and I happened
to be stumbling by. I noticed all the glass in the windows and went in to check
it out.

I was admiring the beautiful bongs they had in the back. The guy came
up to me and I said "I love your bongs". He said, "you mean you love the
water pipes?". I said "no, I love the BONGS". He said "you mean you love
the WATER PIPES?" I said "No I love......oh....I get it".

Before there was a "boro room" on this site, I tried to find info on how
to work boro. None of the other sites had anything, and I was out of luck
until someone refered me to a pipemakers site. Wow, boro info galore.

I think that a crappy imported pipe from China or India cannot hold a
candle to a well made artistic boro pipe. People who are into quality will
search you out if you make good quality items.