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2008-09-11, 10:43am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 18
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Torch for invacare 5, please help
Hello to all.
I am using now traditional torch that is used here in Czech Republic for glassbeadmaking, very similar to japanese torches, because it is combination of propan and compressed air fueled torch. But this setup is terrible slow for 104 coe, and it takes ages to make bigger beads.
I have got now an Invacare 5 concentrator, so i am now deciding what torch to buy. I know, that the usual hint here is, try the torch before you buy, but this is not an option for me, here  . Please, can you help me to choose? I was looking on Mini CC (but many of you says, that the torch gets very hot), N.M.Knight Little Dragon (but the combustion data for oxygen are kinda high for the concentrator), the new one GTT Cricket (should be designed for small concentrators, but i saw that some of GTT usere was complaining about carbon buildup in those torches and i can not send the torch back to the company for maintenence), Nortel Minor (but i am somehow negative about this torch, dunno why) and last but not least Isiheat (German Torch, i like it, but the price is double of the price of other torches). Any hint is big help for me, thanks in advance.
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2008-09-11, 10:47am
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Peerless Thread Killer
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2007
Location: Mt. Chokula
Posts: 1,148
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I don't know if you are buying from the US, but I have a Firebird torch that I got at Wale Apparatus. Kate Fowle-Meleney, a wonderful bead artist, recommended this torch with my Oxybox-she said it worked great with an oxygen concentrator. I paid, if I remember correctly, about $270.00, and I feel it was worth every penny. I do mostly 104 COE glass, but sometimes I've done small boro beads, and it works with that as well.
Hope this helps a little. I'm sure there are many people on this forum with extensive torch experience that might be able to help more.
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2008-09-11, 11:10am
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Ruebennesqueness Queenie
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Join Date: Sep 03, 2005
Location: Hermosillo, Sonora. MX
Posts: 2,642
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I just got a used Invacare 5 and I'm using it with my GTT bobcat. I always get up every 2 to 3 hours to stretch and get water or munchies. I turn off my torch and when I return i give it a little clean up with the pokey-tool (wire cleaners) and haven't had any problems with build up. I guess the crecket would work even better.
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Don't make a priority out of someone who is only willing to make you an option...
GTT Bobcat and 5lpm Oxycon... lampworking since may 2005.
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2008-09-11, 11:13am
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
Posts: 9,523
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The MINI CC is the one that gets hot - the MINOR is a different torch and is a wonderful low priced torch. It is the one I use and will work great on the Invacare you have.
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DOG is my co-pilot
Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2008-09-11, 11:16am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid
The MINI CC is the one that gets hot - the MINOR is a different torch
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ouch, thanks, edited
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2008-09-11, 1:31pm
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
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Quote:
but i saw that many of GTT usere was complaining about carbon buildup in those torches and i can not send the torch back to the company for maintenence),
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GTTs do not carbon up any more than any other torch brand. In fact, when run properly, they don't carbon up at all. GTTs make standard mix torches (the Cricket and the Bobcat) as well as triple mix torches (the Lynx, Cheetah, Phantom, on up in size). It is easier to see when you are running a bad flame on a triple mix than on a standard mix because the little injector tubes will clog up before any damage occurs. All you have to do is clean your torch and then adjust your flame to a proper flame - and keep in mind that any flame that would carbon a GTT will also carbon any other torch.
The Cricket is designed to run small flames more easily without carboning.
If you want to get the most out of a 5 LPM concentrator, then go with a Cricket. I have tested several torches on my Invacare and took their flame measurements:
Quote:
Nortel Minor
candle length: 0.330”
shoulder width: 0.850-0.860”
flame length: 11”
small pinpoint flame: fairly small flame
Nortel Mega Minor
candle length: 0.350”
shoulder width: 0.850”
flame length: 10”
small pinpoint flame: carrot shaped, not enough thrust to get a sharp hot needle
Carlisle Mini CC
candle length: 0.25”
shoulder width: 0.925”
flame length: 9”
small pinpoint flame: carrot shaped, no thrust
GTT Cricket
candle length: 0.500”
shoulder width: 0.750”
flame length: 13”
small pinpoint flame: hot needle flame can get very tight
straight off concentrator, not through Y connector:
candle length: 0.550”
shoulder width: 0.850-0.880”
flame length: 13”
small pinpoint flame: hot needle flame can get very tight
Knight Bullet centerfire (same as Knight Little Dragon 7 jet)
candle length: 0.250”
shoulder width: 0.700”
flame length: 11”
small pinpoint flame: small carrot shape
Bethlehem Barracuda centerfire (same as Beth Bead Burner/Pirhana/Betta)
candle length: 0.330”
shoulder width: 0.780”
flame length: 12”
small pinpoint flame: good needle flame
Bethlehem Minnow
candle length: 0.25”
shoulder width: 0.600”
flame length: 10”
small pinpoint flame: carrot shaped, no thrust
Wale Firebird
candle length: 0.280”
shoulder width: 0.960”
flame length: 11”
small pinpoint flame: cannot get pinpoint flame, wide carrot shape that fades to nothing when you get low, 2.5” – 4” before carrot comes to point
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The Cricket was able to get longer candles on 5 LPM than any of the other torches. The Bobcat ($195) and the Lynx ($435) did very well when I tested them, too, but if cost is a concern, the Cricket (regularly $167, introductory price of $139) is a great way to go.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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2008-09-12, 5:23am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 18
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2 kbinkster:
thanks a lot for the answers. My concerns about carbon buildup are also gone due the answers in the other thread about Cricket.
Can you please tell me, what regulator for propane did you use for the Cricket? The most common regulator here is 30 mbar (cca 1/2 Psi) with maximum flow of 25 LPM. The invacare should be, according to data sheet 5LPM 5 Psi concentrator. Someone said, that the pressure oxy/gas should be 3/1. Well, the generator isnt new, so i think, that the power can be less than in the technical sheet, but still, the proportion of the pressures is 8/1. Would it be ok?
Is there somewhere manual or additional infos for the Cricket beside those on the GTT webpage?
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2008-09-16, 7:26pm
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osvold
2 kbinkster:
thanks a lot for the answers. My concerns about carbon buildup are also gone due the answers in the other thread about Cricket.
Can you please tell me, what regulator for propane did you use for the Cricket? The most common regulator here is 30 mbar (cca 1/2 Psi) with maximum flow of 25 LPM. The invacare should be, according to data sheet 5LPM 5 Psi concentrator. Someone said, that the pressure oxy/gas should be 3/1. Well, the generator isnt new, so i think, that the power can be less than in the technical sheet, but still, the proportion of the pressures is 8/1. Would it be ok?
Is there somewhere manual or additional infos for the Cricket beside those on the GTT webpage?
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1/2 psi is plenty for the Cricket.
Don't worry about the proportions - that only really matters if you are going to open your torch valves all the way and work off the flame like that. The torch valves will control the mix - the oxygen/fuel ratio - of what comes through the torch.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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2009-06-16, 4:40am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1
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More painful GTT propaganda from the binkster
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2009-06-16, 9:21am
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Join Date: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 867
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I have both a Nortel Minor and a Carlisle Mini CC. Both are great torches, and I've had them for years. On tanked 02, I don't notice major differences between the two, except that folks who do a lot of stringer work seem to love the mini cc. When I switched from tanked 02 to concentrators, however, I found that the minor seems to be noticably more oxygen efficient than the mini cc, and I get more flame range with the minor on a smaller concentrator than I can with the mini cc. I'm happy with the mini cc, also, just need to run it on a bigger concentrator for what I like to do. The bigger concentrator is more expensive, however, so if I had to do it over again, I'd probably get one of the new oxygen-efficient torches designed specifically for lower pressure/flow rate concentrators.
Since the Cricket came out, it looks like there are some competing torches that have also come out, but I don't think I've seen much discussed about them. Despite what ramones1 says, the quality of GTT's torch line speaks for itself no less than Nortel's or Carlisle's. If you read through this and other parts of LE, I think you'll find that even the seasoned folks seem to love the Cricket even though they may have other torches. Kimberly's table, by the way, was originally posted (if memory serves) in the context of trying to understand which torch works best with which concentrator, and was vigorously discussed and vetted by a lot of sharp, experienced and knowledgeable lampworkers, who were deeply appreciative of Kimberly's efforts.
Linda
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2009-06-16, 8:21pm
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
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Thank you, Linda.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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2009-06-17, 3:37am
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Striking-impared...
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Join Date: Jun 13, 2005
Location: Hot 'n Humid SE Florida
Posts: 595
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I have a Bobcat and I don't get any kind of carbon buildup unless I run an heavy reducing flame for a few hours (like when I am using the silver reduction glasses). But I just use the cleaning wire and I'm good to go.
I've had the torch 5 years come September and have never had to send it back for cleaning.
(I run my Bobcat on 2 concentrators.)
I don't see why the Cricket would be any different, carbon-wise.
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Gail
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2011-08-28, 7:46pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 06, 2009
Location: South Hedland, Western Australia
Posts: 181
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I use the Invacare 5 with a Nortel Minor with no problems
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