Is this a secret?

hngntuf · #1 2012-12-08, 10:16pm

I recently started vaping, gave up the stinkies and have been seeing glass drip tips everywhere. Problem being... I have no clue how this is done. Is this done on a mandrel(don't own one) or free handed? How do you get the end precise every time and how is the groove made for the O-ring? I asked on another forum, but nobody wants to give it up. Can anybody share?

Thanks,
Stephen

P.S. I'll share some juice for some help.

allicat · #2 2012-12-08, 10:20pm

I know Essiemessy makes them; you may want to message her and see if she has any tips!

Good luck

Alli

theglasszone · #3 2012-12-09, 1:05am

I don't think it's a "secret", per se, but it's a product that I know at least one member has worked very hard to perfect.

Alli, I didn't know Essie made them too! I'd love to check her's out...

istandalone24/7 · #4 2012-12-09, 3:59am

tons of info on these over on talkglass. be careful asking about techs though...some of the vets will rip you apart if you ask how something is done. there's a plethora of asshats over there, but just as many good people too.

Dragonharper · #5 2012-12-09, 4:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by istandalone24/7

tons of info on these over on talkglass. be careful asking about techs though...some of the vets will rip you apart if you ask how something is done. there's a plethora of asshats over there, but just as many good people too.

^^ This. Be very careful about how you phrase your question. Use the search function, if you don't know what to call something try a few variations before asking what it is called. You are more likely to get a response to "I'm searching for <describe the technique or look>, what is it called?" than "How do I make a Sherlock?". Sometimes even "I'm doing it this way, is there a better way?" will get a good response. You are almost always going to get flamed or become the brunt of a joke. Don't let the flames get to you and always laugh at yourself, that will earn you respect. Oh, if someone does help you make sure to give them a rep (reputation) point.

hngntuf · #6 2012-12-09, 6:47am

Yup, that's where I'm getting no response. I did search, but found nothing on these. Maybe I'll try other parameters. I suppose no response is better than getting reamed over there.

As an aside, I recall a member here a while back asking about getting precise lengths of tube (short) with smooth edges. Didn't 'click' then, but now I believe it was about making tanks.

If nothing else, I'd like to know if it is done on/off mandrel or with a mold of some kind. Anyways, thanks for the responses.

Stephen

Dragonharper · #7 2012-12-09, 7:49am

Most likely it done with boro tubing, and will be "off mandrel".

SharonP · #8 2012-12-09, 10:32am

deleted... will post as separate thread. Good luck on your vaping question!

Three Muses Glass · #9 2012-12-09, 12:16pm

You guys are cracking me up. I've never run across anyone that actually bit anyone else on talkglass.

Stephen, I found this on youtube. Don't know if it's helpful or not. Yet. I'm going to get myself one of those vape thingamabob doohickies for Christmas.
Anyway, he's got a bunch of videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt0DVDW-2mc

hngntuf · #10 2012-12-09, 12:44pm

Hi Rebecca, hope you've been well.

Yeah, I saw that one on tanks and I think I can pull that one off eventually. Still haven't found one on drip tips though.

If you need any advice on your purchase, just shoot me a PM. I'm not an expert, but have researched extensively. Always looking for the best deal and may be able to save you a few bucks.

Thanks,
Stephen

Three Muses Glass · #11 2012-12-09, 12:53pm

Thanks! I found a local-ish place, I'll PM you a link to what I was thinking of getting. Maybe after I get one I'll know what size a drip tip is, and we can figure it out. I've got plenty of small tubing around.

essiemessy · #12 2012-12-09, 2:32pm

It's not a secret as far as I know. After all what we're trying to do is copy in glass what has been done in plastic, ceramic and metals already.
However, I totally get it if someone who has worked out a way to get their carto ends right isn't keen on parting with their hard-earned knowledge. At least not in the immediate future. That is their right, and their prerogative; and their intellectual property.
I know how hard I'm working on that, and I'm still not happy.

I only know of one other person who is doing them successfully (and beautifully), and I did contact that person out of respect to let them know I was having a go, because I was asked to give it a try by someone over here. I had also shared the link to their store, so our community could see what was already available. Maybe that person can chime in here. I found them nothing short of supportive and approachable - and generous.

But you know what? Good luck with them. It's really not easy, and I've been working on it myself for a few months now, with limited success. I have the help (and fabulous support) of beta testers on other tank/carto equipment here in Oz via the Australian forum, and I still can't come up with an 'every time' fitment solution, without lots of coldwork which, frankly, takes all the fun out of the art, IMO.
I haven't decided whether to proceed with this style of tip at this stage. One of the reasons I would proceed, however, is that eCig mouthpieces are a fabulous way of art. The possibilities and inspiration is endless

I've already spent an awful lot of dollars on postage and glass for the testers (two rounds of testing, group of four testers each time, two or three tips each), not to mention hours and hours of my precious time. I'm still not sure whether it's going to end up paying off. So if you want to do this, make sure you put your money where your mouth is. Make sure you earn the respect of your potential customers, if you are involving vaping (and glass) forum communities. Show them what you're made of and what you're capable of. There are a lot of others out there we don't even know, who are so much better and skilled than we are. They've earned their place already.

I can tell you what I tried, though. I cut down a couple of cartos to use as rollers, which was great while it was all hot at the same time. Where I run into trouble is when they cool down, with different rates of expansion. I've even made an adjustable roller simply by using a small spanner, but for the life of me, I still can't get a perfect fit because I can't measure the hot vs cold sizes without ruining my calipers.
Even if I could, it's still a challenge to get the length and tapers right, let alone getting all that right while cutting or pressing a groove for the O-ring. I just can't be bothered, and am more than happy to leave it to those who can do the job far, far better than I. I have tested the viability of shrink tubing on ground ends, which has possibilities, however as I've said the coldwork is not only no fun, it's also dangerous in terms of airborne particulates, even if working under running water. The one advantage to this, however, is that your mouthpiece could then be adjustable, if your customers are willing to play around with sizes and thicknesses of the tubing and apply it themselves.

I have toyed with the idea of having a graphite template made, like a beadroller, however it would have to be precise, and the design would have to have taken into account expansion and contraction rates in the glass to arrive at the correct measurement. I should imagine COE would also come into play here for that kind of precision. But that's just my ramblings - could be nothing of the sort

All I know is that if I can get a good roll in a cut-down carto, it certainly doesn't mean its the same fit once it's cool. That's where my PPP has fallen in a heap.

Add to that all the different holes you can poke these things into. I only have one device to test the ends - Boge cartos. I only use clearomisers, because I like to keep my vaping very simple. Giving up the ciggies is hard enough without having to muck around with filling cartos etc. So I only have cartos for testing fitment. But other tanks and cartos are very slightly different, so it's a real PITA if, like me, you've never seen anything else IRL.

I'm also working on tanks, but if that turns out to not be viable, it's cool because I've discovered tubing to be a whole lot of torching fun!

Stephen, by all means have a go. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I can't help you with the best way to do carto ends, simply because I haven't come up with a way to do them well enough myself, yet, so a lot of people have my mouthpieces (I shouldn't call them drip tips, because they're not really, in that sense) for testing, but I haven't sold any yet because if I wouldn't pay money for them, nobody else should.

clan tabby · #13 2012-12-09, 2:58pm

I don't understand the process you are discussing at all, but I wonder if someone like Ali might be a good resource? Measurements on scientific glassware have to be pretty accurate, so maybe she might have some ideas about how to arrive at better precision.

I apologize if her lab work doesn't transfer to what you are discussing since I REALLY don't understand it. Good luck to you both!

Lyssa · #14 2012-12-10, 10:47am

I don't have ANY idea what you guys are talking about.

bepnewt · #15 2012-12-10, 12:39pm

Di - I am not a smoker, never will be and have never even looked at a fake cig, but your core dump above was fascinating to read. Thanks for sharing!

-BEP

essiemessy · #16 2012-12-10, 1:29pm

clan tabby, thanks - I never really thought of that. It would make sense, I reckon.

I was in touch with a scientific/neon glassworker trying to negotiate supply at one point. I could have picked his brains about all that, if he was willing to waste time on someone who wanted to buy less than twenty pallets of glass from him

Aimee, don't worry about the jargon

Basically what we're talking about is making glass mouthpieces that fit (perfectly) into an 8.5mm opening. There's an ecig thread in the family room, I think. There are photos of these devices there - the bits you put in your mouth can be made of plastic, metal, rubber or glass.

BEP- core dump? LMAO And anyone who's never smoked is naturally in front in terms of health. Good for you!

GabiLoraine · #17 2012-12-10, 2:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyssa

I don't have ANY idea what you guys are talking about.

Me neither! And nobody has posted one single picture!

What is this sorcery!

theglasszone · #18 2012-12-10, 3:12pm

E-Cigs are electronic cigarettes that use "vapor" rather than smoke to dispense a "hit" of nicotine such as a drag off a real cigarette would deliver. People all over the world are using these to ween themselves off of cigarettes which, as we all know, have proven to be extremely unhealthy!!! The "juice" (or the liquid that creates the vapor) has nicotine and a bit of "flavor" (i.e., menthol, cherry, watermelon, and a bazillion others) but none of the tar and other horrible chems in regular cigs. As far as I know, they are not FDA approved, but even an episode of "The Doctors" endorsed them as a much safer alternative than smoking regular cigarettes or cigars - or even using "chew".

There is a thread in "Other" (way down at the bottom of the main page listing here on LE) that was started I believe by TraciDawn; there are pics there of what e-cigs look like...

De

ETA: Here's the LE link: http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235753

hngntuf · #19 2012-12-10, 3:36pm

Thanks for your in depth post Essie. It was very informative.

Now for the disclaimer:

I have never had a mandrel in my hand, other than a welding rod I believe, so what I am about to say is born of ignorance.

It looks like to me with all the fancy presses and other doodads that are floating around this side of the art, there could be something made to do this as well. Kinda looks like one of those long cylindrical beads with a 1 or 2 grooves at the end for the O-ring(s). Someone could make a fortune. (hint hint) Anyone wanna give it a shot?

Just my $438.71(adjusted for inflation)
Stephen

PaulaD · #20 2012-12-12, 11:00am

Thanks De. I had no idea what he was posting about either. I thought maybe marijuana or meth.

Clueless.

tracidawn78 · #21 2012-12-12, 11:13am

How weird, I had planned on making a couple today to see how it went. Just for me and our friends...

Question... is it completely unreasonable to make these on a mandrel? If you clean it well and sand down the inside hole so there's no rough glass inside? I know the inside won't be pretty like it would be with tubing, but I feel like I (personally) could get a lot more detail and make it more like my beads if I was able to make it on a mandrel.

Three Muses Glass · #22 2012-12-12, 12:10pm

I don't see why it would matter if it was made on a mandrel or tubing. If you don't like the idea of it being rough inside, you could go through it with finer and finer grits until it was almost polished. I just use the mandrel itself and wet grits when I polish really big hole bead holes.

essiemessy · #23 2012-12-12, 12:53pm

I've only used a mandrel. All it means is that it won't be smooth on the inside like drip tips should be. Which is why I try not to call them 'drip tips'. I try to remember to call them 'mouthpieces' because dripping would not be a smooth process - more like 'spread into all the nooks and crannies before finally making its way to the atty' than 'dripping'

As for polishing - way too much work! Leave the hard-core drippers to their own, and just do art

Won't be any fun, otherwise, and besides, grinding glass should be only done if absolutely necessary, IMHO.

tracidawn78 · #24 2012-12-12, 1:28pm

Oh and one more question if anyone cares to give it up... where are you buying your o rings?

essiemessy · #25 2012-12-12, 1:34pm

I went away from the o-ring thing because it was too hard. Hopefully someone else can chime in?

Three Muses Glass · #26 2012-12-12, 3:30pm

They have little packages of small o-rings at Lowes or Home Depot by the plumbing stuff.

Di, I get the feeling somehow that you don't like coldworking.

essiemessy · #27 2012-12-12, 3:37pm

wherever would you have got that idea???

Yeah, the only coldworking I get excited about is turning beads into jewellery

Three Muses Glass · #28 2012-12-12, 4:17pm

I like doing that too but I also like coldworking sometimes. I know, call me a freak. lol

Traci, I forgot-if you go with the o-rings, there is a tool that makes it super easy to put them on. I don't know what the tool is called but it kinda looks like very skinny long needle nose pliers.

essiemessy · #29 2012-12-12, 4:21pm

Ah, like the ones used to apply those nasty little rubber rings to little lambs/calves tails and testes? Poor wee things

I remember playing with those as a kid on the farm.

Three Muses Glass · #30 2012-12-12, 5:20pm

You remember playing with what??? I hope you meant the pliers. lol

This link is to google images for o-ring pliers (which I guess is what they're called. convenient.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=o-ri...w=1280&bih=620

I bought one of those plastic drip tips today. It looks like a regular 3/32" dipped mandrel would be the right size. Calipers on the bottom read 8.51mm.