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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

View Poll Results: Do you have propane tank(s) in your house?
Yes, but only a maximum of 2 one-pound tanks 76 10.60%
Yes, I keep my BBQ tank right next to me in the studio. 212 29.57%
No, it always stays outside. I run the lines through a door/window. 247 34.45%
No, it always stays outside. I have a plumbed line through the wall. 182 25.38%
Voters: 717. You may not vote on this poll

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  #481  
Old 2011-09-09, 1:33pm
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Dale M. Dale M. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sangita View Post
Thanks so much. I was not offended. I knew that the essence of your message was please play as safe as you can but I do want as much info as possible about how I can play as safe as possible. I am on the third floor
In California (USA) it illegal to even have a BBQ on second floor.....

Have you given some though as to how many families you are endangering in apartment building if you have a incident with propane tank?.... You have a responsibility to everyone in the building to NOT DO SOMETHING that will endanger all the residents.... I know rules/laws/codes are different form country to country and state to state and county to county even city to city, but common sense say its not really a good idea to have propane on 3rd floor balcony even IF you believe it to be safe.

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2011-12-06 at 11:37am.
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  #482  
Old 2011-09-09, 11:45pm
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Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
In California (USA) it illegal to even have a BBQ on send floor.....

Have you given some though as to how many families you are endangering in apartment building if you have a incident with propane tank?.... You have a responsibility to everyone in the building to NOT DO SOMETHING that will endanger all the residents.... I know rules/laws/codes are different form country to country and state to state and county to county even city to city, but common sense say its not really a good idea to have propane on 3rd floor balcony even IF you believe it to be safe.

Dale
What are the risks of propane being stored on an outside balcony in regards to leaks or any such thing. It being heavier I would say maybe the gas falls to the porches below. If the patio is that open to allow such a thing to happen I would hazard a guess that the wind/air would dissipate anything before it became a danger.

Now obviously cooking with it causing heat to rise to the above patio (if there is one) could cause fires along with grease or oils used for cooking. In regards to glass blowing I am trying to figure out what exactly would be the dangers, unless of course one is right next to it doing work where a line could be melted or such should explosive hot glass land in the wrong way on a line or something.

----
To sangita:

How big is the patio? Do you have people above and below you? How big is the grill? Do you blow glass inside your place with the tank outside or on the patio next to the tank? All of these questions are kinda important in determining how you might reasonably go about negating or preparing against any problems.
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  #483  
Old 2011-09-10, 6:40am
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One has to consider all the risks, a leak, small hands on tank, a fire (not directly caused by "the" tank"), and accident while you are using tank...

Most of us see a tank as a inert steel object.... But the gas is flammable, tanks are subject to bursting, and the fuel/air mix is capable of flame.... What If its struck by lightning and becomes a fireball (I know that is extreme)...

Propane during a explosion expands 277 times its own size (cubic displacement) instantaneously .... Think of the news pictures of train tank cars on fire and the resulting explosion send train car parts over a mile away during explosion and the heat can be felt thousands of feet away.....

Fire is a wonderful servant but its a cruel master.... Think of propane in same context....

Recently we has a motor home catch fire in a river canyon , that in its self was not the real problem, but the propane tank on motor home exploded spreading a fireball to both sides of the Merced River ( "Motor" Fire on You Tube) and it took days and several hundred people and tens of thousands of dollars of equipment to put it out ( DC-10 water dropping air craft at $25,000 an hour to operate).....It was just outside one of the national treasures, Yosemite National Park and only 30 miles or so from my home...

That is what a propane tank can do....

Dale
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  #484  
Old 2011-09-10, 11:50am
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Well that canyon looks incredibly dry to begin with, I imagine a single match or campfire could have cause the same damage IMHO. Probably a no burn order during the dry seasons and what have you, just like they do in Oregon.

Struck by lightning? Really guy???? ;D What happens if my tank stored outside my shed or anyone elses house for that matter gets struck by lightning? Isn't that taking it a bit too far or at the very least, using that as a reason won't convince anyone to do anything at that point.

If someone is going to calculate the risks/chances of lightning striking a tank being outside, I think its best they don't even step foot outside the door of their house (*is just kinda kiddin with ya*)

I think most people posting asking for some advice in here understand that a tank is dangerous. However we need to be pratical in the advice we give people. Small hands on tank? I take this to mean a kid gets access to the tank?

We have heard nothing of a child being in the apartment so far, so I would hazard a guess that a little kid isn't going to break into her place and go out on the patio to play with the tank. All of these dangers you just mention all have just as much of a chance setting outside someones house or garage or shed, especially in a residential neighborhood where kids run amok and play. A fire at a neighbors house could cause a tank setting between them to explode, just as one inside ones own home could.

I think I remember someone using the reason earlier to explain to someone why setting a tank that has the same explosive power outside the house as inside that it not being contained should cause less pressure or explosion or some such thing. Now if your saying a tank being outside has virtually no point because of lightning and kids or curious animals, or the freak fire of a neighbors house, rust or wear on the tank from weather. Then at that point there really seems to be no safe place to ever use a tank of propane.

Once again.... I think it would be better to give someone some advice on how to make their particular situation a bit more on the safe side. Perhaps she could get a propane box with a lock on it, cut holes in the top and bottom for air flow, this would save any chance of little hands getting a hold of it.

Prior to this when some people in this thread have come up against situations in which the person's choice to have a tank in a less than ideal spot was shown to not be nearly as bad as it could be, people would always default to the "well its illegal" or "its illegal here even if its not there, and that must have some merit if a whole country/state/city/county or whatever it might be at the time of the conversation thinks so". Well in this case it appears as if it isn't a problem with the people who own the building and I would imagine maybe not illegal in this case. So with no legality issue, let us not go to "lightning could strike it". The small child concern is a totally valid one IMHO and it makes sense to secure the tank. But that would go for any place or situation not just this one.

Why is it so hard to help minimize the chances of danger rather than tell someone something they obviously already know if they are coming into a safety section of a message board for glass blowing and going so far as to post questions about their situation.

I am trying to help with advice only I don't have all the knowledge/details to tell her more than a few things like setting up a detector near her tank storage, so if there is a leak and the air outside becomes concentrated enough with propane to be on fire the alarm will go off before then? Also a secure box to keep it away from kids (and lightning).

The accident while using the tank is obviously the biggest danger, but anyone will face that when using one. I dare say a giant explosion from my backyard will do quite a bit of damage to the surrounding houses, especially considering the oxygen tank that is easily within the explosive range of the propane that will be outside of the shop no less. This is an unavoidable situation for most people, regardless of where their studio is set up be it in an apartment or in a place in their backyard. Things can be destroyed inside or out, people can be hurt, inside or out. When it comes to a tank explosion, I think people are mostly screwed regardless, unless they live out on a farm with an out building far enough away from any other objects. Now that being said, I think the biggest realistic danger a person faces with a tank is a leak, be it minor enough for them not to notice, or big enough to be obvious. The former is taken care of by having the tank outdoors, the latter is of course and issue for anyone.

I still have not seen (though maybe because it is only due to my getting to page 10 of the thread) anyone mention the proper procedures for someone to follow should their tank be leaking at a rate that is obvious to the eyes, nose, touch, and ears. I would imagine a call to the fire dept. What is the proper way to deal with a tank in this situation while you wait for the folks to come dispose of it? These are the things people need to reply with, these are the things that will saves lives.

As far as fire in the building unrelated to her, well if her neighbors have grills and tanks, I guess by the amount of damage stressed by folks in this thread, everyones good as gone anyway. I was trying to avoid the ole "everyone else is doing it" thing in regards to not being the cause, but being a domino further down the line of a number of dominos seems kinda fruitless to worry about.

So.... any suggestions rather than a simple no? Cause im currently out of them for the moment.
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  #485  
Old 2011-09-10, 7:52pm
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What to you not understand about if the is some incident with tank, it has direct effect on EVERYONE living in building.......

The situation with the MOTORHOME and the MOTOR FIRE was a "example " of the possibilities.... IF the propane tank has not exploded and the resulting fire ball not spread to both sides of the river, it may have been a simple exercise to put out a vehicle fire....

I'm try to relate by example here and NOT defend what did or did not happen with MOTOR fire ....in US there is NFPA code and now International Codes that stipulate one shall not store more then 2 - 16oz canisters of propane in a residence ... A residence being where people live/eat and sleep.... And yes people choose to ignore these rules.... And the propane cops don't arrest them, but if the insurance company get wind of illegally stored tanks that were cause of a incident they may void policy and the individual may be liable for total damages and open to law suit from all the residences of building and building owner......

I think you need to go back and reread the thread..... You argument seem to be a exercise in your need to type huge amounts or word questioning everything without taking anything previously said into account.....

Dale
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  #486  
Old 2011-09-12, 1:33pm
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First, sorry for my long posts...

Second, why are we talking about a motor home explosion. You have contributed lots of info in regards to legality and what you feel is proper. This is appreciated. I guess when it comes to someone asking some advice on how they might make a shitty situation safer and as I try my best to offer up some advice you would rather attack my way of speaking/posting, and tell me I have not read the thread... guess I am done with this.... Have yer way, I am done trying to help people when I get that in return. The bickering only takes away from the important issue at hand. You seem to be a one trick poney in regards to this topic. I honestly do appreciate your info and stance on things and think it helps a lot of people change their minds on things that would otherwise be rather questionable. It is good to know, however ya might consider some tact in the future. Was this short enough for you? I hope so

Last edited by caogomi; 2011-09-12 at 1:38pm.
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  #487  
Old 2011-09-12, 2:02pm
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^^^^ LULZ^^^^

Caogomi don't be offended that's just Dale being Dale. Dale has yet to learn that sometimes by the book and real world applications are not always one in the same. And the "book" was written by someone with no real world knowledge.

Using some obscure accident that is not even related to lampworking is the way to feed fear into something most people are already scared about. Using the morothome fire as an example is just silly, the explosion of the propane tank was a secondary action to the primary fire. What happens if your studio catches on fire and the tanks that's out side blows up? Same shit... Since we are using unrealistic ehat if events.... What happens when a meteorite comes flying in from outer space and takes out your propane tank that's outside your shop? What if chuck norris looks at it with his laser beam eyes and it explodes. The venting pressure chart was quoted and by the math the tank would need to reach over 125-130 deg to vent. This is a much higher temp than 90% of the world ever sees. Citing random obscure events..... people still drive we still fly we still live. ...A lot of the women bead makers are scared shitless of propane and for a good reason but the "safety gurus" feed off of their fear. A page or so back I brought into question a real world lampworking event and was shot down because she did all kinds of things wrong. Well those things wrong are a more probable thing to go wrong than some freak obscure what if scenario. The human error will always be on the top of the list of faults over some rare random tank venting (that I have never seen). We go through about 5-6 BBQ size tanks a week and have NEVER. Had a tank vent..... but then again I blow real world glass and live in the real world not on paper or by the book.
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  #488  
Old 2011-09-12, 2:15pm
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Lol I just want to add. A leaky tank or a fire will effect the tank no matter first seconr or third floor. Having a tank blow up on the 1st floor will do just as much damge as it would on the 3rd or 95th. Any time you live in a residential area there is a risk for harming others near by, being in an appartment doesn't make the risk any greater.... and as far as the "little hands" I assume you mean a kid opening the valve on the tank? Considering its mandatory for all tanks (4-40lbs) to have OPD valves that keep any gas flow from happening unless hooked up how would this ever be an issue? Unless you are going to claim the OPD valve fails....
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  #489  
Old 2011-10-01, 5:36pm
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I use a 1lb tank with a HH, as I live in an apartment and have no other option. I don't get more then 2 tanks at a time. Is there any danger to having empty cans around? I imagine the tanks don't fully empty, especially when it's cold out. The are no places to get rid of hazardous waste from Nov-Apr.

I'm fairly new, and have just read the last 17 pages of this thread and am somewhat terrified! I also now need to by a house to support lampworking Maybe my cat can take on a second job.
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  #490  
Old 2011-10-03, 6:08pm
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It's always fun and cool right up until you get killed. 'The Book' is there for a reason whether you like it or not and may well have been assembled by intelligent people (like that or not). Like nukes, it only takes one event to spoil your whole day and you probably won't see it coming. Play safe out there.

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  #491  
Old 2011-10-04, 6:23am
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Well I hope everyone is calmed down enough that we can get back to how I can play safer. Dale understand your concern and thank you. There are no children around. Most of us have children grown and away from home with no grand children yet. Anyways I wouldnt allow a child on my torching balcony. Caogmi, Both balconys are over 12' long. The torching one is about 6' wide. The other one wider. Yes, people live above and below me. The grill is a medium to small grill. I torch on the balcony next to my tank. Almost every apartment owner has a propane tank on a balcony for their bar b que's. I have regulators on my tank and I check for leaks at least once a week.
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  #492  
Old 2011-12-05, 7:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caogomi View Post
First, sorry for my long posts...

Second, why are we talking about a motor home explosion. You have contributed lots of info in regards to legality and what you feel is proper. This is appreciated. I guess when it comes to someone asking some advice on how they might make a shitty situation safer and as I try my best to offer up some advice you would rather attack my way of speaking/posting, and tell me I have not read the thread... guess I am done with this.... Have yer way, I am done trying to help people when I get that in return. The bickering only takes away from the important issue at hand. You seem to be a one trick poney in regards to this topic. I honestly do appreciate your info and stance on things and think it helps a lot of people change their minds on things that would otherwise be rather questionable. It is good to know, however ya might consider some tact in the future. Was this short enough for you? I hope so
I don't know who to shit you think you are but I find your post extremely offensive. ONE TRICK PONY??? Dale is extremely knowlegible on safety and you would be wise to listen to him. As for tact, Dale gives his safety advice over and over and over... after a while, it gets irritating perhaps but he's always stepping up to the plate to keep people safe. I hope you're smart enough to be one of those people.

Sue
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  #493  
Old 2011-12-06, 6:18am
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dale, almost always gives good advise and he is right on this issue.. god bless him for it.
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  #494  
Old 2011-12-06, 8:14am
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Originally Posted by laserglass View Post
dale, almost always gives good advise and he is right on this issue.. god bless him for it.
ditto
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  #495  
Old 2011-12-08, 2:24pm
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I think I am an individual who doesn't need to come into a thread 3 months later and swing a sword around... And sorry, but his tact was total shit in that post (as was mine I would say). I already agreed that his info and such was helpful and even made me think over my own practices. However, as I said before, I don't think telling someone simply "no" when they have no other choice other than to stop working and not pay the bills or eat, etc isn't going to HELP! I was just trying to come up with some things to help negate any potential situations with said tanks for people rather than telling them they are on their own and they can do NOTHING to make the situation a little better.

I felt if someone is going to walk a tight rope and won't take no for an answer, might as well try to tell them the best way they can balance on the sucker. That is the main point and thought of my other posts. So I don't see this as being a "he's right you're wrong" thing... Unless you mean to tell me we shouldn't try our best to help someone who is going to do such anyway, which is rather sadistic imho. And as far as the pony comment, I was just kinda irritated at the fact that he attacked my way of speaking/posting which was just a personal jab and nothing to do with the constructive elements of this thread. And the fact that he refused to offer up any advice in regards to simply "no" (which makes sense since he feels very strongly about this topic as do a lot of folks).

Soooooo I cannot believe two months later I have been dragged back into this. Just because Dale and I have different views and methods doesn't mean I don't have respect and honor reserved for him and the knowledge he brings to the table. But I am not gonna kiss anyone's ass either if I disagree with them on how to go about things, regardless of who they are. If Dale (or anyone) thinks I am just a snot nosed punk due to this thread alone that is indeed unfortunate, because I imagine if you met me and didn't know I posted under this username, we would probably hit it off quite well.

With that said, much love to all of you, and I hope you stay safe! Now here is to the hope that this thread can go beyond being derailed and back on to the topic if anyone still has questions or advice. Or could it be that most of them were scared away due to the bickering? I certainly hope not! Because that is all it (our silly exchange) was, was bickering (from my perspective anyway). If I am wrong and I really offended Dale and all the old guard wants to come down with fire of the heavens on me so be it, but I don't think it helps encourage a dialogue in such an important thread. /shrugs /sighs Here is to the internet! *ding* Where you are not allowed to be a jerk for a minute, hour or day without people making sure you never forget it.

/me enjoys the irony of a "heated" discussion on a lampworking board ;D

/me goes back to his cave....

Last edited by caogomi; 2011-12-08 at 3:15pm.
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  #496  
Old 2011-12-08, 3:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caogomi View Post
I think I am an individual who doesn't need to come into a thread 3 months later and swing a sword around... And sorry, but his tact was total shit in that post (as was mine I would say). I already agreed that his info and such was helpful and even made me think over my own practices. However, as I said before, I don't think telling someone simply "no" when they have no other choice other than to stop working and not pay the bills or eat, etc isn't going to HELP! I was just trying to come up with some things to help negate any potential situations with said tanks for people rather than telling them they are on their own and they can do NOTHING to make the situation a little better.

I felt if someone is going to walk a tight rope and won't take no for an answer, might as well try to tell them the best way they can balance on the sucker. That is the main point and thought of my other posts. So I don't see this as being a "he's right you're wrong" thing... Unless you mean to tell me we shouldn't try our best to help someone who is going to do such anyway, which is rather sadistic imho. And as far as the pony comment, I was just kinda irritated at the fact that he attacked my way of speaking/posting which was just a personal jab and nothing to do with the constructive elements of this thread. And the fact that he refused to offer up any advice in regards to simply "no" (which makes sense since he feels very strongly about this topic as do a lot of folks).

Soooooo I cannot believe two months later I have been dragged back into this. Just because Dale and I have different views and methods doesn't mean I don't have respect and honor reserved for him and the knowledge he brings to the table. But I am not gonna kiss anyone's ass either if I disagree with them on how to go about things, regardless of who they are. If Dale (or anyone) thinks I am just a snot nosed punk due to this thread alone that is indeed unfortunate, because I imagine if you met me and didn't know I posted under this username, we would probably hit it off quite well.

With that said, much love to all of you, and I hope you stay safe! Now here is to the hope that this thread can go beyond being derailed and back on to the topic if anyone still has questions or advice. Or could it be that most of them were scared away due to the bickering? I certainly hope not! Because that is all it (our silly exchange) was, was bickering (from my perspective anyway). If I am wrong and I really offended Dale and all the old guard wants to come down with fire of the heavens on me so be it, but I don't think it helps encourage a dialogue in such an important thread. /shrugs /sighs Here is to the internet! *ding* Where you are not allowed to be a jerk for a minute, hour or day without people making sure you never forget it.

/me enjoys the irony of a "heated" discussion on a lampworking board ;D

/me goes back to his cave....
Safety is absolute. Dale was right on in this thread. I have only known him for a short time here but I trust his judgment thoroughly and I thank him for the help he has given me. I think it is safe to say that he has integrity to not tell someone what they want to hear instead of the truth. Sometimes "NO" without compromise is the right answer.

Last edited by LarryC; 2011-12-08 at 3:39pm.
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  #497  
Old 2011-12-08, 3:46pm
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In a way I am actually glad he is so unwavering as it sends the right message, and if he were to backtrack on his stance, it might weaken it to others who lurk through the thread, so I certainly respect that. It also allows me to have my opinions/thoughts without making it seem like a "yeah go right ahead it's fine, don't worry" endorsement. At the very least, I think this thread will give some people stuff to think about from a variety of directions. I myself certainly don't want to see any of my fellow artists hurt, that is for sure!
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  #498  
Old 2011-12-09, 7:13am
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The posts on this thread have finially gotten to me. I looked over the piping of the natural gas line in my home, found a great spot ( A short piece between an elbow and a coupling and for the reasonable price of about $30 I am now off the tank and tied into the NG line in my house. I was a person that used to keep the 20lb tank in the house at all times in the winter. Yea I know.... get over it! When it is 10-20 below zero and the winds are blowing there is little to no motivation to:
A) Go out side
B) Get the tank and then bring it to a window
C) Open a window to feed in the gas line and then leave the window open
Anyway installing the components to get on the NG line in the house was fast, inexpensive and quite easy to do. (Although I did have 2 pipe wrenches on hand. ) Now A 1/2 turn of a valve and I am ready to go! When I am finished, again a 1/2 turn of a valve and the gas is off at it's source. My motivation was that over the years I have had a couple of LP tanks on my grill that developed slow leaks at the valve and so i figured that it was only time before it happened again. Also, I think the flame is actually "cleaner" and may be quieter??......
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Old 2011-12-09, 8:56am
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Good on you Kwelna! You are much safer now and you are correct about your flame. It is a bit cleaner and quieter.

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Old 2011-12-27, 11:33am
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Hi Dale,

Thanks so much for all the valuable info you have provided to keep us all safe!

For some time I have had LP plumbed in per your suggestions and the code research I did (which means that it is outside, a good distance from my work area, and plumbed in black pipe with shut-offs, etc.).

Up until now I have just been using oxycons, but I am now adding tanked oxy as well.

If you have time, I'd love some specific advice from you regarding the safest way to handle this and I was unable to search and find the specific answers I was looking for from someone who I know is giving good advice.

Here are my questions:

1) Is it actually safe to keep the Oxy tank in the studio (house) if the LP is outside and the oxy is properly chained? I'm inclined to think not, but many seem to think it is. I asked a fireman friend and he said it's a combustion agent so be better not to...

2) If the answer to the above is no, I assume I just plumb it like I did the LP, running pipe thru the wall with valves, etc. However, I am not clear about what type of pipe to use - is black pipe and fittings still ok - or is something else right?

3) If black pipe is regular teflon tape ok, or do I need the special green stuff (which I am having trouble finding)?

4) Do I assume correctly that it's better to put the oxy tank well away from the LP tank location?

Thanks so much for your help!

Erik
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  #501  
Old 2011-12-27, 6:58pm
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Dale M. Dale M. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signguy View Post
Hi Dale,

Thanks so much for all the valuable info you have provided to keep us all safe!

For some time I have had LP plumbed in per your suggestions and the code research I did (which means that it is outside, a good distance from my work area, and plumbed in black pipe with shut-offs, etc.).

Up until now I have just been using oxycons, but I am now adding tanked oxy as well.

If you have time, I'd love some specific advice from you regarding the safest way to handle this and I was unable to search and find the specific answers I was looking for from someone who I know is giving good advice.

Here are my questions:

1) Is it actually safe to keep the Oxy tank in the studio (house) if the LP is outside and the oxy is properly chained? I'm inclined to think not, but many seem to think it is. I asked a fireman friend and he said it's a combustion agent so be better not to...

2) If the answer to the above is no, I assume I just plumb it like I did the LP, running pipe thru the wall with valves, etc. However, I am not clear about what type of pipe to use - is black pipe and fittings still ok - or is something else right?

3) If black pipe is regular teflon tape ok, or do I need the special green stuff (which I am having trouble finding)?

4) Do I assume correctly that it's better to put the oxy tank well away from the LP tank location?

Thanks so much for your help!

Erik
I have tried to answer most your concerns in a PM...

Dale
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  #502  
Old 2011-12-28, 1:34pm
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Sending someone a pm about questions they asked seemed counter productive to asking said question in an open forum........
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Old 2011-12-29, 8:38am
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I had sent a PM and posted in the forum because I was anxious to get the answer. Dale was super helpful (as always). For everyones edification, here is what he sent me:

HI....

I'll see if I can answer some of the questions to your satisfaction....

#1 THE fire department is correct but not clear, Oxygen is a "combustion agent" when mixed with a fuel at proper fuel/oxygen ration... Technically its a oxidizer (promotes burning) but alone it is perfectly safe.... Yes its "safe" to bring tanks into studio.... But if propane is outside, why not keep oxygen tank outside (maybe is nice storage cabinet (shelter))...

#2. IF you decide to put oxy tank outside and pipe it in, I would not use black iron. I would use soft copper and flair (not compression) brass fittings... The problem with oxygen and black iron is any oils in black iron pipe (left from installation) may cause spontaneous combustion... So if you decided to use threaded fittings, they must be cleaned with non oily solvent (pipe interior too) and assembled with non oily bases sealant. I would suggest soft drawn copper and flair fittings because they are easily cleaned (usually clean and oil free at purchase) and you can get refrigeration quality copper tubing that is already oil free interior (cleaned upon manufacturer) ...

#3. As for Teflon tape, green - yellow or white are chemically the same, white is for general purpose threaded fittings, yellow is for fuel fittings and green for oxygen, **IF** design specifications demand it, other wise just use white....

#4 There is supposedly some restriction for keeping oxygen tank near propane tank, but I have never found it, and ther are those that have stated it must be, but have not been able to recite chapter and verse where it is printed... IF you feel more comfortable keeping them apart, by all means do so... BUT I have seen then stored together (in outside RUBBERMAID cabinet) and nobody seemed concerned... I will note that at local welding supply though (actually back of local hardware store - (I live in the "sticks")) flammable gasses and oxygen and non-flammable gases are stored separated....

Cheers!

Dale
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  #504  
Old 2012-01-05, 4:46pm
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Silberrucken Silberrucken is offline
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I see that this thread has been around the block a couple of times... Admittedly I have not read all 17 pages of posts. I am a newbie using a hardware store 1lb bottle on a hothead so by default I'm "safe"

However, I can see the day coming when a step up to more heat is inevitable, and I for one completely understand the regulations, and the reasons for them. (Bet nobody here stores a 5 gallon can of mower gax next to the hot water heater....)

On the practical side. Bottles outside. No problem. Running low pressure pipes through walls or windows no problem. Doesn't that indicate valves and regulators outside? Or do folks run high pressure lines through the walls and regulate inside?
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Old 2012-01-05, 5:07pm
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Or do folks run high pressure lines through the walls and regulate inside?
In many places the building code limits high pressure to 10 psi for through the wall applications. Thus the regulator is placed outside because of that limit.
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Old 2012-01-10, 4:53pm
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This is a very cool thread.

I just thought I would point out that wikipedia states oxygen and propane "burn" at a temperature of around 4,000 degrees fareinheit.

I have no idea of knowing if this is true or not, but if it is; an explosion in a shop with the two gases would essentially be a 4,000 degree explosion rather than a 2,200 degree one.

Fun fact.
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Old 2012-01-10, 6:27pm
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The temperature will vary with the ratio of the two gasses. Either way, a pure O2-fed propane fire in an enclosed space would ruin your day.

Robert
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Old 2012-01-10, 11:43pm
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Silly me and my over exaggeration.
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Old 2012-01-11, 11:08am
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Silly me and my over exaggeration.
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Old 2012-01-11, 11:27pm
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It's K. I got chocolate cheerios...that are quite stale and well deserved.
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