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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #61  
Old 2010-05-19, 6:16am
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Well - I'll just put this down as another lesson learned. Best wishes with your project.
Jen

Last edited by Jenfire; 2010-05-19 at 6:25am.
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  #62  
Old 2010-05-19, 8:10am
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When you think of the pressure inside bottle from the carbon dioxide (carbonation) I doubt the structure of the glass will explode from internal pressures (expansion of air) while annealing or not annealing in kiln....

I fear the glass will break because of uneven heat (uneven expansion) more than anything else.... And have you noticed how TOUGH a soda or beer bottle is..... The really hard to break even when dropped .....

Kalera's experiment is probably valid, only time will be deciding factor.... BOTTLE glass is so totally different than what we usually work with and nobody has really researched the "recipe" that it is made of.... Every body says the COE is unknown and don't mix it with other colors.... I've made beads out of GREEN bottle glass and it was really hard to melt with hothead (took lots of heat) and they turned out great, been something like 7 years ago and they are still surviving.....

Dale
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  #63  
Old 2010-05-19, 8:45am
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Artists have been slumping bottle glass and making beads or tiles out of scrap for a really long time, so it's not really an unknown quantity. It's just a soda-lime glass with a COE that is, according to Lani McGregor of Bullseye, usually somewhere between 89-92, but I have heard that it is sometimes in the mid-80's. I've heard lower ranges given as well, and statements that it's around the same range as float, but my experience melting scrap bottle glass for various purposes leads me to trust Lani.

Ah, I just found a quote from Lani that explains a lot:

Quote:
Bullseye's original glass formulas were based on remelting recycled bottles and adding colorants. But bottle cullet doesn't melt all that easily. A flux was needed. Adding soda would have resulted in a glass that was less durable than the bottles. So the Bullseye guys added boron and kept adding it until they got the bottles to melt at a workable temperature. Boron is a flux that doesn't lower the durability or the COE. It does change the viscosity, which was necessary for ease of rolling the sheets.
From this page: http://www.warmglass.com/Bullseye_Compatibility.htm

Basic rules of thumb are; don't mix it with anything, anneal it as if it were Bullseye, and you should be fine.
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Last edited by Kalera; 2010-05-19 at 8:48am.
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  #64  
Old 2010-05-19, 9:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly View Post
The label makes it Xtra Klassy.
and Christmas-y!
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  #65  
Old 2010-05-19, 10:17am
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Last edited by joycerenee; 2010-05-19 at 10:59am.
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  #66  
Old 2010-05-19, 10:35am
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Last edited by joycerenee; 2010-05-19 at 10:59am.
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  #67  
Old 2010-05-19, 4:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwhim View Post



OK, here's a link to really, truly, classy work done with recycled beer and wine bottles:
http://www.mackglass.com/art.shtml
He also made a 600 lb Christmas tree from clear and green! I was so disappointed that I didn't have a chance to go watch them work on it.
HOLY CRAP! That's Jason Mack! I taught him his very first lampworking class, on a hothead and going into a crock pot. It seems like yesterday, but I think it's been a decade now.. He was breaking stuff all over the place - kept putting stuff into the flame too fast, then pulling stuff out of the crock pot to take a look at it.

Awwww.... they grow up so fast. I gotta go email him now. His work was exquisite last time I saw it... and that was something like 5 years ago.
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Last edited by HannahRachel; 2010-05-19 at 4:09pm.
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  #68  
Old 2010-05-19, 5:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurieBSmith View Post
How do you plan to hold said bottles? the mental pictures I have are rather scary.....
I was wondering that myself. I tried heating a beer bottle sized bottle once and that puppy got hot. So if you were to cut it near the neck with a torch, you're looking at some heat in the glass, not to mention what'll come out the top as hot air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
I left the hole that was popped because I didn't feel like dealing with it, but Christmas ornaments and glass floats don't explode in annealing...
I actually did have one blow up in the kiln once. Thank goodness for 4" thick kiln doors!

2Sheds....I've never tried it with bottle glass, but you might try this technique. Keep in mind that anytime glass breaks some is lost as dust/particulate so you'll never get a truly clean edge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4yovEi7j7E

Oh, and I've hit wine bottles with flame before....they crack easily, so be careful.
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  #69  
Old 2010-05-19, 8:34pm
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I would reccommend hot fingers for holding the bottles.

I have used the cutting technique in that video and it works really good with beer bottles but not so good with wine bottles. Be careful with your scribe and dont give it too much heat.
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  #70  
Old 2010-05-20, 5:02am
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Many carnivals/county fairs have a booth where novelties are made by heating beer and soda bottles - often there's a sorta collar with electric heating coils that fits around the neck of the bottle.

You may have seen these stretched-out bottles.

I don't know what the loss rate is.
There may be tricks I did not notice before i started working glass - such as heating the bottles up in an annealer, and then returning them to cool down slowly. All I remember is the wow factor of watching the bottle sag.

I can also tell you that glass for bottles is formulated to quickly solidify - to suit high-speed molding. That may mean that it can better withstand sharp changes in temperature.

That may help your success rate - but I would still take the step of annealing my work before I sold it.

One other consideration - there WILL be minor variations in the melting points of the scrap glass you are using. That means some shards could soften and flow at the annealing temperature of the bottle. This could actually yield some cool effects.
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  #71  
Old 2010-05-20, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menty666 View Post
I was wondering that myself. I tried heating a beer bottle sized bottle once and that puppy got hot. So if you were to cut it near the neck with a torch, you're looking at some heat in the glass, not to mention what'll come out the top as hot air.



I actually did have one blow up in the kiln once. Thank goodness for 4" thick kiln doors!

2Sheds....I've never tried it with bottle glass, but you might try this technique. Keep in mind that anytime glass breaks some is lost as dust/particulate so you'll never get a truly clean edge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4yovEi7j7E

Oh, and I've hit wine bottles with flame before....they crack easily, so be careful.
Thank you, Tom, for telling us what happened to you.

Now I'm not saying anymore. Said it all a few days ago. Duct taping my mouth shut.

Ahhh, can't do it. My dad was a Coca-Cola bottler. Way back when, all the bottles had to be sterilized. The water was extremely hot and steam was included in the process, but the temps never reached those inside a kiln. He had a bottle or two explode from the heat a couple times a month.

Sorry, the duct tape came loose.

Ben David, try a pot melt to get those crazy cool colors swirled around. They are so fun and you never know what it's going to turn out like. You can find more details & some basic instructions at Warm Glass.

Joyce
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  #72  
Old 2010-05-20, 8:11pm
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Quietly watching this thread...it's taken on such an interesting life of it's own!

Awesome experiment Kalera! You did GOOD!
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  #73  
Old 2010-05-21, 5:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenfire View Post
1.) Please start reading the safety forum here. You will decipher what you need from that.
2.) Please start reading the technical forum here, lots of good information in there.
3.) Depends on the COE of the glass used to make the bottle. A search should turn up some info.
4.) See above.
5.) Only you are going to know that after much experimentation.
6.) Look in the sales rack and compare prices. Lots of good vendors there and also some threads steering you clear of bad ones.

Welcome to glass and a lifelong learning curve.
Jen
Question answering FAIL! Why did you even take the time to write this down?
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  #74  
Old 2010-05-21, 5:48pm
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Question answering FAIL! Why did you even take the time to write this down?
why did you even take the time to write this post?
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  #75  
Old 2010-05-21, 5:50pm
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why did you even take the time to write this post?
Word. Double word.
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  #76  
Old 2010-05-21, 6:56pm
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Trolly troll McTrollington.
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  #77  
Old 2010-05-22, 10:32am
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No SHIT! Triple Word to the Squidley Post!!!
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  #78  
Old 2010-05-22, 10:44am
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Word to the 4th.


Wow on Mack Glass. I want to play! Imagine how fun it must be to blow torch a shopping cart full of bottles.
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  #79  
Old 2010-05-22, 11:10am
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Gotta love the total n00b who doesn't know enough to know the difference between "question asking fail" and "question answering fail" but goes out of their way to insult an experienced glassworker anyway...
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  #80  
Old 2010-05-26, 6:14am
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I love that Mack Glass offers to collect bottles from local bars: http://www.mackglass.com/bottles.shtml
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  #81  
Old 2010-07-13, 11:49am
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Yeah, the simplest thing to do for this particular person's needs and skill level would be to simply pop the cap off, fill the bottle with glass, and epoxy the cap back on. It wouldn't have to be just small bits, either. Maybe some long strips for visual interest.
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