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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

View Poll Results: Do you use your marver to shape your beads?
Oh yeah! i marver the heck outta them! 98 50.26%
I sometimes marver but mostly use heat & gravity 76 38.97%
i rarely marver, just use heat and gravity 20 10.26%
i don't use my marvers, i use custom forming tools 6 3.08%
What's a marver? 2 1.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 2009-11-25, 11:38am
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Default Do you marver your beads?

I taught a beginner class recently for another instructor and realized as i was explaining basic shaping that in general i don't marver my beads (meaning i don't use those flat rectangular paddles or clamped on blocks made of steel, brass or graphite to shape the bead)

I found myself struggling a bit to show them how to shape with a marver cuz at home i mostly use heat and gravity to shape my beads. plus i have custom forming tools or i just roll or press them on the tile on my worktable - a likely very bad habit i figured i probably shouldn't teach a beginner class...

i've seen videos and demos where other lampworkers were carefully touching the molten glass to the marver at various points of the shaping process but that's not how i started (being self taught) so my marvers always have (and still do) sit flat on my work table and just hold whatever i'm going to be adding to the bead, e.g. frit, foil, murrini, etc.

So here's my question: Am i the only one who doesn't marver my beads? All you other non-marverers what do you do?
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  #2  
Old 2009-11-25, 12:38pm
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I use my marver to gently shape in the beginning of creation; I rarely use it to completely shape, though - just to touch up sides, flatten before encasing, etc.

I definitely use it EVERY TIME I TORCH, and would be lost without it while doing my layer-after-layer of encased Ocean beads. It definitely helps me keep control.

Further, I use my hand-held a lot - and bring it up to my work and pull the bead out of the flame just a bit and marver it right there at the back of the flame. Maybe it's because I'm on the Hot Head and don't trust the heating sufficiently to move it away from the heat long enough to marver too much on my work bench for fear of over cooling it!

So.....I use MOSTLY like this:



and this:



And sometimes like this:



De
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  #3  
Old 2009-11-25, 12:42pm
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If you are using forming tools or pressing your glass on tile, then technically I would say you are marvering. I have a love-hate relationship with marvering tools. I make lots of round or donut shapes so I don't have to marver, but I also love cylindar shapes which are essentilly impossible without marvering, at least for me. I consider myself press-challenged but I have recently fallen in love with graphite beadrollers, which could be considered marvers too. One of the best marvering tips I ever got was to treat your marvering paddle like an airplane landing strip, in other words, roll your bead down the length of the marver rather than spin it in place. I just got Andrea Guarino's large marver which is awesome - it has a notch for shaping the ends of your beads.
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  #4  
Old 2009-11-25, 1:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erose View Post
If you are using forming tools or pressing your glass on tile, then technically I would say you are marvering. I have a love-hate relationship with marvering tools. I make lots of round or donut shapes so I don't have to marver, but I also love cylindar shapes which are essentilly impossible without marvering, at least for me. I consider myself press-challenged but I have recently fallen in love with graphite beadrollers, which could be considered marvers too. One of the best marvering tips I ever got was to treat your marvering paddle like an airplane landing strip, in other words, roll your bead down the length of the marver rather than spin it in place. I just got Andrea Guarino's large marver which is awesome - it has a notch for shaping the ends of your beads.
yes, technically you can marver with any tool... however for the purposes of this exercise i'm referring specifically to those square or rectangular blocks of steel, brass or graphite, etc. that are commonly referred to as marvers and are designed specifically for this purpose. most times they are either attached to the torch or have a handle.

i've never developed a comfortable way of using them and wondered if anyone esle was in my shoes...
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  #5  
Old 2009-11-25, 1:57pm
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Perhaps it's a question of nomenclature, but I consider a 'marver' as either mounted to the torch, or laying flat on the bench. If it's in my hand (with a handle), it's a paddle.

Or a Kote, if you prefer one of the Japanese tools. Or a Stump Shaper, or a ...

Which raises the question: Do you marver with a paddle?

Malcolm
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  #6  
Old 2009-11-25, 2:02pm
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I'm gonna vote "marver the heck outta them", because I use the marver almost every time I make a bead...but, I don't think I actually "marver the heck outta them". I use the marver to get and keep my basic shape thoughout the process of laying down layers of color and for keeping little critter feet level. The only time I don't marver beads is when I make little spacers.
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  #7  
Old 2009-11-25, 2:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtcoInc View Post
Perhaps it's a question of nomenclature, but I consider a 'marver' as either mounted to the torch, or laying flat on the bench. If it's in my hand (with a handle), it's a paddle.

Or a Kote, if you prefer one of the Japanese tools. Or a Stump Shaper, or a ...

Which raises the question: Do you marver with a paddle?

Malcolm

LOL, i'm including paddles (and Kotes, stump shapers, etc) as "marvers" for this survey...

funny thing is one of the first items i bought was a brass stump shaper and i maybe used it once... i'm not even sure where it is anymore.

i bought an extra long brass paddle thinking i would roll beads up and down it to shape - nope, it just lies flat on my table and is mostly used for big pieces of leaf or foil.

then earlier this year i bought two sizes of graphite paddles after i read they were "better" cuz they don't pull as much heat from the glass - first thing i ended up doing was removing the handle from the big one cuz i found it too cumbersome and now it lies flat on my table as well for frit (lol). and the only time i ever use the little one is to occasionnally touch up the ends of a bead the odd time that it doesn't droop evenly.
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  #8  
Old 2009-11-25, 5:02pm
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I voted the second one. I use heat and gravity more than the marver, but I do need the marver once in awhile as well.
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  #9  
Old 2009-11-25, 7:51pm
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DE! Nice glass color! What is it?
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  #10  
Old 2009-11-26, 10:06am
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It depends on the bead whether I marver or not.

If I make a round or olive shape, I form using heat and gravity (learned from Jim Smircich).

When I make my usual long bicone or tube beads, I use heat and gravity to center the glass on the mandrel, THEN I marver the heck outta them on my 6-by-12-inch graphite slab (learned from Trey Cornette) to shape the middle and to make nice, dimpled ends.

I never could get the hang of a handheld graphite paddle.
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  #11  
Old 2009-11-26, 1:18pm
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Depends on the shape of course, but I do use a torch mounted marver as well as a paddle quite often. If you can get perfect ends or make a nice crisp bicone for example, without marvering, then more power to ya!...in many cases, I can't...I need to touch up those ends, at least a bit.
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  #12  
Old 2009-11-26, 5:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtcoInc View Post
...Which raises the question: Do you marver with a paddle? Malcolm
Watch it, or I just may paddle you with my marver!
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  #13  
Old 2009-11-26, 7:06pm
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I usually just use heat as well (which is probably why my beads are donut shaped or pressed usually).

For the longest time, I just didn't understand how marveering or paddling worked. It finally made sense when I took a Jim Smirich class. I still don't do it very often though.
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  #14  
Old 2009-11-26, 9:38pm
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sometimes i worry about showing people the marver i use.. it is beat the hell up.. five years of beads/scientific glass have really done it in. i once had someone tell me they didn't know why there wasn't a huge groove in my marver from making large bicone beads.. like the graphite wasn't just wearing down.
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Old 2009-11-27, 9:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderCreek View Post
Depends on the shape of course, but I do use a torch mounted marver as well as a paddle quite often. If you can get perfect ends or make a nice crisp bicone for example, without marvering, then more power to ya!...in many cases, I can't...I need to touch up those ends, at least a bit.

Ok. How do you make a bicone without marvering? I'd love to see that!
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  #16  
Old 2009-11-27, 11:45am
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This is a marverlous thread! HeeHee

I marver. I use my torch mounted marver alot. I use my graphite pad alot, I use my paddles, alot.

So, for those of you who checked, What's a marver? Here's the Wikopedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marver

J.
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  #17  
Old 2009-11-27, 11:56am
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I vote same as Kimberly.
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  #18  
Old 2009-11-27, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
Ok. How do you make a bicone without marvering? I'd love to see that!
Me too Shawnette!
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  #19  
Old 2009-11-27, 3:52pm
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I never marver, it's all about heat and gravity for the beads I make. (traditional rounds) But I marver barrels and long bead shapes, of course.
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  #20  
Old 2009-11-27, 9:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
Ok. How do you make a bicone without marvering? I'd love to see that!
LOL, me three! for me that's where the custom tools come in. i have these grooved brass hand tools (not flat) that i use for shaping - i''ve never quite been able to get the hang of fully shaping a bead by rolling it on a completely flat surface... touch-ups sure but not complete shaping

my 2nd fave "marvering" tool is the top half of the Cattwalk crunch presses
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  #21  
Old 2009-11-28, 9:09pm
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I used it some with soft glass unless I'm making round beads. I generally do round with just heat and gravity. I never use the marver if I'm doing boro.
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  #22  
Old 2009-11-29, 6:07am
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I use both a hand marver and a torch-mounted marver. My favourite hand marver (paddle) is a small light graphite marver that's about two inches square, mounted on an aluminum handle and is thin. I have a top mounted marver for my minor which I love (has a little "shelf" in the front which is perfect for my "template" beads). I've been using a top mount on a mini CC lately, and I'm not so fond of it, as it has rather large metal prongs coming up the sides that get in the way of my hands when I'm rolling out a barrel that's on a shorter mandrel. The mini cc marver has a little shelf too which is very handy.
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Old 2009-11-29, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewdb View Post
LOL, me three! for me that's where the custom tools come in. i have these grooved brass hand tools (not flat) that i use for shaping - i''ve never quite been able to get the hang of fully shaping a bead by rolling it on a completely flat surface... touch-ups sure but not complete shaping

my 2nd fave "marvering" tool is the top half of the Cattwalk crunch presses
ME TOO!!! I tell EVERYONE to buy this press!!! I can't torch without it!! It's my FAVORITE MARVER!! (I even take it with me when I go other places to torch!)

My other "must haves" are my brass "center handled" square from Maria (I like the plate of brass with a handle like a press--I can "squish" with it or I can use it like I do the crunch press top!!), & the matching flat plate that sits on the counter top....I really like brass better than graphite 90% of the time...oh & a teeny little brass shaper from GLMcBead....& some pokers from Maria, & a brass "cuticle shaper" from Nikki's Brian (the official "sheep-ear poker-downer" )

My poor "must have if you're a new torcher" graphite marver still looks brand new...I must find my dremel & drill a hole in it--Sue keeps telling me what a great "mandrel steadier" they make....maybe I'd use it then.... I feel bad just looking at it!
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  #24  
Old 2009-11-29, 7:40pm
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I do a lot of marvering with a 7/8 lentil press. Even on huge beads. And the ends of mag's mashers are pretty handy, too. I use a Japanese Kote for marvering bicones and such.
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Old 2009-11-29, 7:51pm
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Rounds I let shape themselves, anything else (tubes, barrels, olive shapes) I marver with my graphite paddle, Obsidin (sp?) lentil shaper, or Perfect Tool radial cone shaper.
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  #26  
Old 2009-12-01, 3:05pm
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Me too on the lentil press. I have an Osibin lentil shaper that I couldn't live without. Don't use it for making lentils though. I have never seen the need to marver a round object on a flat surface, unless of course you flatten your bead. Most of my shaping is done in the flame with a tad bit of shaping with my lentil paddle.
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Old 2009-12-02, 7:59pm
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i never used to till i started makeing long tubes then i had to literally dust it off to use it
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- download, get organised, enjoy
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  #28  
Old 2010-03-26, 9:57pm
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AutEvDesigns AutEvDesigns is offline
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Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredinCoquille View Post
I'm gonna vote "marver the heck outta them", because I use the marver almost every time I make a bead...but, I don't think I actually "marver the heck outta them".
My reasoning was pretty close to this, but since I could choose two boxes I chose the first two, because I'm somewhere in-between.

I use my marver/paddle to help refine edges, flatten sides (like for tubes or cones), smooth out places where I had too much glass in a press ... lots of little uses. As an artist I'm continually developing my awareness that ones artistic expression is often closely tied to refinement of tool use. So, if you learn with a marver, you're always learning new ways to put it to use, but it's not like you're just using it to mash (!) the glass around because you don't know how to do anything else!
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  #29  
Old 2010-03-27, 6:41am
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KJJames KJJames is offline
Karen James
 
Join Date: Mar 22, 2006
Location: Rhode Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc View Post
Me too on the lentil press. I have an Osibin lentil shaper that I couldn't live without. Don't use it for making lentils though. I have never seen the need to marver a round object on a flat surface, unless of course you flatten your bead. Most of my shaping is done in the flame with a tad bit of shaping with my lentil paddle.
Ditto! I bought the lentil press to make lentils. Then while I was searching out how to use it I found some great info on how to use it to shape beads. I use it for that more than anything now.
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Cricket, Mini CC, Devilbiss MC84 Oxy and NG
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  #30  
Old 2010-03-29, 11:09pm
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Holly Holly is offline
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I love my graphite Osibin shapers from Arrow Springs!
I have several and use them frequently.
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