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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2007-04-29, 8:56pm
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meadowesky meadowesky is offline
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Default older carlisle torches for boro?

I have started to play with boro and am looking for a torch to run on tanked oxy. My goal is to work up to larger hollow pieces.
I have a friend who can get me an older model Carlisle CC for about 400$
I do still intend to make beads and will keep my minor if this is the torch I choose. I have also looked at the cuda and a few other ones but need the most bang for my buck. Any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 2007-04-29, 9:06pm
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For that price you really can't go wrong....the cc is a great torch to work large to small beads,hollow,beads,vessels,and more!

I wish you well on the purchase if you decide to do so,and I can tell you it will be a great deal of heat for you ~not to mention the centerfire

~W~
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50mm & 40mm Herbert Arnold Zenit Burners,Carlisle cc/cc+/mini,Liquid O2.
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  #3  
Old 2007-04-29, 11:43pm
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I'd get a new or used Lynx. I'd have to say they are by far the best for making boro pendants and beads, by far the fastest and best on colors for solid work and darn good for hollow, too. They have great detail flames. They are about 3 times as much heat as a minor or more.
You can certainly do larger hollow pieces on a Lynx, too. If you want even more heat, a Cheetah would be a good step up and still be in that price range. Then if you ever want a truly large torch you will be all up to speed with triple mix, too. Theres a reason that if you go to the Tucson flame off or whatever, 98% of the artists are using GTTs.

A CC would be nice also, but it's not my preference. $400 is a good deal though... older model? Have CCs really changed much in the past 30 years? CCs last forever and can be refurbished quite well.
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  #4  
Old 2007-04-30, 12:03am
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living in BFE I actually havent seen many torches up close and personal. Will the lynx allow me to do large hollow work and melt large diameter rod?
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  #5  
Old 2007-04-30, 5:01am
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Brandie, for larger work, the CC is a great choice. At $400 you really can't go wrong if it isn't beat to hell. The cc has been the work horse in the industry forever! Carlisle will still service it and it should be melting glass long after we are all dust.
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  #6  
Old 2007-04-30, 5:34am
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My CC is at least 10 years old. It still works great. And $400 is a great deal on one. However, I wouldn't recommend it if you intend to do any soft glass. The flame is just too hot. If you want to still do some soft glass, I would recommend a Knight Bullet Burner. They are great torches, and since the inner and outer flame are both surface mix, you can work any kind of glass with them.
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  #7  
Old 2007-04-30, 6:35am
ChrisCamac ChrisCamac is offline
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That is a pretty good deal on a CC. Be careful about what shape its in. If its a freind, then I'm sure they won't mind letting you check it out. If the face of the unit looks pretty solid, and you don't see things like one row of tubes being shorter than another, and all the ports are nice and crisp rather than being rounded out, then this is probably a good purchase.

If there is a lot of damage, like mentioned above, the unit may require some work. Depending on how much work, this can vary in price from Carlisle between $120 up to $650 for a complete overhaul. So just make sure you check it out first.

As for some comments about soft glass from Cosmo, I would like to say that working soft glass on the CC might be a bit more difficult than something like the Bullet Burner or a Minor, but that doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use it for soft glass. You see, the issue with soft glass and the CC is one of understanding the torch and the glass enough to know what flames to use and where in those flames to work. It is a bit trickier to do soft glass with a CC, but certainly not impossible and certainly I wouldn't say it is not recommended.

There are a few very well known soft glass artists that use the CC exclusively for their work. Such as Shane Fero and Paul Stankard, off the top of my head.

Paul Stankard in particular uses the centerfire of the CC to make all of his paperweight components. So when you look at one of his paperweights, which are very well known for high detail and exquisite use of color, you will see that the bumblebee that is sitting on top of the flower in his botanical paperweight were made on the CC using just the centerfire.

To me, this proves that the CC can definitely be used for soft glass. But I still would agree with Cosmo to the extent that it is easier to learn to use the Bullet or Minor for soft glass, where the CC will have a learninig curve with soft glass.
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Last edited by ChrisCamac; 2007-04-30 at 6:37am. Reason: spelled Stankard wrong :)
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  #8  
Old 2007-04-30, 10:11am
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We used Carlisles for soft glass in Corning. They are really good for blowing soft glass... As mentioned by the CarlisleGuy, many soft glass artists use a CC... Fred Birkhill for instance (I took Shane and Fred's class). Since the premix is awful for soft glass, you have to turn OFF the center fire, which last I checked Carlisle doesn't recommend. Fred says he's been doing it for 30 years and his torch still works and he hasn't blown hmself up, so it seems okay from here.

I don't mean to snibble but Shane doesn't use a CC exclusively. At home he prefers a special crossfire torch with a cutout in the table. I was fortunate enough to witness this in person while traveling through NC this year. The crossfire is another really good option for blowing soft glass.

A Lynx tends to be a bit hot for blowing soft glass, at most settings it sort of vaporizes the surface! You can set it lower, though. Um.. do you even want to blow soft glass?

Some people make about 2 inch boro marbles on Lynxes and with multiple pieces, quite large blown work is possible on a Lynx. Overall the CC probably has a size edge over the Lynx. I know which I'd rather use for boro, though. When we were making paperweights on CCs at Corning (the last time I used one.. too bad because they're sort of fun) I recall lots of torch burn on my face and splashback heat. The flame isn't quite as focused as Mirage or something.

Am I blathering on? I can't tell. I think theres somehting wrong with my coffee today.

Last edited by Juln; 2007-04-30 at 10:13am.
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  #9  
Old 2007-04-30, 12:29pm
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thank you guys!
If I settle on this torch I will run it on a tank (of course) and keep my minor on a concentrator for soft glass. But actually, with the colors I am getting on 1 concentrator and my minor I am not sure if the soft glass is going to stay. This glass rocks!

My tossup of torch options were the barracuda, the lynx (I can actually get a good deal on one of them too), the CC, or the cheetah. I want something that I am not going to want to upgrade from for a while.
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  #10  
Old 2007-04-30, 1:10pm
ChrisCamac ChrisCamac is offline
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Meadowesky:
the Barracuda, CC, and Cheetah are somewhat comparable for size (I think that the CC is the largest of the three, but I'm really not sure so hopefully someone else can comment), where as the lynx is a bit smaller than the rest. No matter which you go with, should be fun! Best of luck with it.

Juln:
Thanks for the clarification. I do remember now that Shane does use those crossfires as well. We make those too, and they are very interestinig to work with. I think Shane also has a Herbie now that I'm thinking about it, but he does use the centerfire of the CC for soft glass, and during a conversation with him a while back, he was surprised to hear that some folks were saying the CC wasn't for soft glass. His comment back to me was, "Well I guess I've been doing it wrong then."

As for the centerfire and turning it off, the main reason this is recommended against is that without some sort of gas (oxygen is acceptable) through the centerfire, it can overheat. An experienced user will know what then can and can't get away with doing this. Fred is a great guy, and if he says it works, I would go with him!
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  #11  
Old 2007-04-30, 3:16pm
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Size-wise the Barracuda and CC are about the same size. The Cheetah is physically smaller. Of the three, the Barracuda is by far the coldest. The Cheetah and the CC are both pretty hot. I tend to think that the CC is hotter than the Cheetah, but I haven't compared them directly. Either will be plenty hot though.
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  #12  
Old 2007-04-30, 3:20pm
ShttrdSpctrm ShttrdSpctrm is offline
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i like my cc ive had it four or five years, and no probs yet and 400 is a great price if its not damaged too much
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