How to have NON-TAPERED ends on Barrel and Bicone beads

Laura B · #1 2006-06-13, 6:58am

Oy! I am totally at a loss to figure out how to keep the ends of my longer beads from flattening out to paper-thin.

I see nice bicone and barrel beads with fat, puckered ends and it just ain't happening for me.

All my glass seems to get pulled to the middle (even when I try to heat the ends to draw it back).

I tried "adding" ends at the end of the bead process, but it didn't look natural... it looked like I added ends. Ha!

Is there a technique I'm missing (obviously)?

TIA,
Laura

Judi_B · #2 2006-06-13, 7:13am

One way to get good ends (not that I always succeed!) is to start by making good spacer beads with puckers where you want the ends to be, for example 1 inch apart. Then fill in between them and build up the bicone or barrel. Be careful to keep the ends warm so they don't crack, but not so hot that they lose their shape. About half the time I still gets the ends too hot and lose the good shape---need more PPP!

Laura B · #3 2006-06-13, 7:14am

Thanks! I was making two separate rondelles with nice puckers, but then as I worked the bead, they'd flatten out. Sounds like I need to keep the heat away from them. I'll try this... and keep practicing. Thanks!!!

Laura

adovbs · #4 2006-06-13, 7:18am

I make a barrel with good ends, then decorate, then narrow the ends on my marver, working only one end or the other at a time. That seems to keep the ends puckered.

Good luck!

Cosmo · #5 2006-06-13, 7:24am

Here's something that works for me:

Make the bead shorter (hole to hole) than you want it to be when finished. Once you get a good mass of glass on it, take it out of the flame and let it cool so it's pretty stiff. Start heating one end of the bead, and once it starts to get soft (but not dripping soft), angle the mandrel so the hot end is pointing down. The glass will start to run down the mandrel. Take the bead out of the flame and marver the end. That will cool the glass and "lock" the shape into place. Then do the other end. You just have to be careful once you start adding decorations that you don't get the ends too hot or you will lose the nice end.

Jim Smircich does something similar in his first DVD if you can get your hands on a copy of it.

Laura B · #6 2006-06-13, 7:24am

Thanks Teresa! I'll have to try to figure out what "then narrow the ends on my marver" means, but it sounds like something I just need to practice.

Do you mean like push them back in?

Laura

Laura B · #7 2006-06-13, 7:26am

Thanks Chad! I'll try to get the DVD, too.

Sounds like mostly I need to get good ends and just not let them get so soft/hot they lose their shape.

PPP!

Laura

GinnyHampton · #8 2006-06-13, 7:31am

I make my ends thicker, like someone else suggested more like a spacer bead rather than an "end". When I marver, I don't marver at a sharp angle, keeping the ends more bead-like. I also will heat one end until it's glowing a little and then turn my mandrel so that the glowing end is facing directly downward, letting gravity pull it down a little. I take my razor tool (or marver), hold it perpendicular to my bead and "tap" the end up until it's flat and level all around. Then I repeat on the other side. I hope that makes sense!!

Laura B · #9 2006-06-13, 7:35am

Oh wow, I didn't even think of that... I'm probably not helping matters when I marver 'cause I bet I'm putting pressure on the end. D'oh!

Oh good, so many things to try now.

Thanks!

Laura

Laura B · #10 2006-06-13, 7:38am

BTW, GORGEOUS bead, Gina!

adovbs · #11 2006-06-13, 7:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura B

Thanks Teresa! I'll have to try to figure out what "then narrow the ends on my marver" means, but it sounds like something I just need to practice.

Do you mean like push them back in?

Laura

No, you hold the hot bead end at an angle against the mandrel, and roll it out to a taper. If you don't have too great an angle, you won't make the bead ends "sharp" - keep the angle low and keep the bead about a half inch from the edge of the marver. I'll see if I can get a pic or something, because I have a feeling I'm not describing this very well...

Laura B · #12 2006-06-13, 9:04am

Teresa, I'm sorry... newbie... just not getting it. I feel like I'm listening to a different language... ha ha ha... I think I just found the downside to being self-taught.

Laura

Emily · #13 2006-06-13, 9:44am

It looks like you might also be putting the glass onto the mandrel at an angle. When you make your two little beads that will be the ends of your long bead, make sure that the rod is perpendicular to the mandrel, not slanted to one side. Hard to describe, but you want the glass to go on with a straight line around the mandrel, not a / or \. If your initial footprint is at an angle, the end of your bead will be angled. It's very hard to fix unless you just make another new "end" bead right next to the angled spot and then melt them together.

adovbs · #14 2006-06-13, 9:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura B

Teresa, I'm sorry... newbie... just not getting it. I feel like I'm listening to a different language... ha ha ha... I think I just found the downside to being self-taught.

Laura

Okay, let's see if this helps.

Fig1:

Fig2:

Fig3:

Fig4:

Fig5:

Heather/Ericaceae · #15 2006-06-13, 9:49am

Yes, what everyone else said.

There's a lot of different ways to get a dimpled end. The main trick is to maintain more thickness at the mandrels. I usually start with a cylinder, "fatten" it in the middle with an extra wrap or two, then heat one end and point it down to let gravity shape it, then marver, then let it cool and "set" and repeat on the other side.

If I messed up and end up without enough material near a mandrel, I can add more glass if there isn't a pattern yet. If there's a pattern already, I "cheat" by heating the glass to soft and the gently pulling the glass over the mandrel with a flat, narrow tool, then marvering. If I do it evenly I can avoid distorting the pattern. This works especially well on encased bicones because you can let the heat sink in only to the clear layer and move that without moving the deeper decorated layer. If that makes any sense!

And another thing that might make sense: Warm glass flows to where the heat is. So, if you want to keep glass from making a point at the mandrel, it helps to angle the flame so that it isn't hitting the tip of the mandrel directly. If you're able to keep the "face" of each beadhole cooler, you'll have an easier time making and keeping your dimples. This is tricky to explain, but basically you don't want the flame aiming *into* your dimple. -H.

Lara · #16 2006-06-13, 11:27am

Laura -

I happen to have some photos that I took last week of making ends for tutorials I'm putting together. I haven't read what everyone else has written, so forgive me for posting information that someone else said.

The first bead I'm showing is heat and gravity.

In this first picture you can see a close up of an pointy end. You can see it kinda looks like the ends in your picture. The ends do this as the heat in the center of the bead pulls the glass towards it (glass wants to move to the heat).

In this next picture you can see how the top end of the bead has been shaped and I'm getting ready to shape the other end. I have heated the bottom 1/2 -1/3 of the bead and have tipped the mandrel down, thus allowing the glass to slump or move down the mandrel. When I think I have slumped it enough, I let is cool just a touch and...

shape the bead on my marver.

The next bead is using glass added at the ends.

These pictures are of two different beads, sorry.

Other times when I make a bead I want different colored ends. Now, you probably noticed when you add glass to the end, even in the same color, you can see a line of demarcation between the glass. I'm not sure the best way to fix this, but I think working REALLY hot would do it (pretty sure Kimberly suggested this in a thread a couple months ago). So, my base bead looks a lot like your base bead when I add the ends, jagged and thin. So, I have my base bead and add on the ends.

Next heat at the V (where the end and the base bead meet). You can see that the black is staring to melt in. As it is melting in, you want to keep the black nice and not pointy, so I keep the mandrel tipped down.

Here the bead is being shapped on the marver. You can see the other end isn't shapped yet. I will then put the bead back into the flame and heat the other end and shape. Heat and shape and shape some more.

In this last picture you will see where I have added a bit of glass to even out the ends. You can see it is just a bit.

Hope that is helpful.

Super big thanks to my teachers: Kimberly Affleck, Jim Smirich and Leah Fairbanks whom I have learned these tips from.

Laura B · #17 2006-06-13, 12:52pm

Holy heck, you guys are AMAZING! I can't believe all the help you're giving me.

And here I was so afraid to speak out in LE 'cause it seemed like everyone already knows everyone and you're all so talented and who'd want to help a newbie... OMG, I'm so glad I was wrong.

I will play with ALL these techniques this weekend... thanks ever!!!

Excited to think I may be able to have non-tapered ends soon,
Laura

Emily · #18 2006-06-13, 1:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura B

Excited to think I may be able to have non-tapered ends soon

Nothing that a good foundation undergarment won't fix, anyway.

Quote:

There's a lot of different ways to get a dimpled end.

I recommend Oreos -- lots of Oreos.

Quote:

Super big thanks to my teachers: Kimberly Affleck, Jim Smirich and Leah Fairbanks whom I have learned these tips from.

Jim Smircich's class is great for learning to understand heat and how the glass moves, particularly in making long beads. I probably made my first reasonably decent long beads in Smircich's class. (I haven't had the privilege of learning from Kimberly or Leah, although I've heard great things about their classes, too.)

Coffeebean · #19 2006-06-13, 2:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judi_B

One way to get good ends (not that I always succeed!) is to start by making good spacer beads with puckers where you want the ends to be, for example 1 inch apart. Then fill in between them and build up the bicone or barrel. Be careful to keep the ends warm so they don't crack, but not so hot that they lose their shape. About half the time I still gets the ends too hot and lose the good shape---need more PPP!

This is the method I have been using most of the time. My main problem is that after I add the glass in the middle, marver the bead into a barrel, and decorate it, I start getting these huge bubbles rising from the inside of the bead to the surface, which explode and leave a hole. I then try to fill the hole and it all kind of goes down hill from there.
My other problem is getting the barrel even so the hole is centered and the barrel is nice and round, instead of having more glass on one side of the barrel than the other.

GinnyHampton · #20 2006-06-13, 3:06pm

WOW Lara . . . awesome tips and pictures

playswithfire104 · #21 2006-06-13, 4:17pm

There are some really great tips here. I have tried (and tried and tried) to do "the heat up the end and let gravity pull the glass" thing and when I stop letting gravity work the glass goes back to the middle. Maybe I'm not letting it cool enough. I'll have to try this next time I get on the torch.

Judi_B · #22 2006-06-13, 4:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by playswithfire104

There are some really great tips here. I have tried (and tried and tried) to do "the heat up the end and let gravity pull the glass" thing and when I stop letting gravity work the glass goes back to the middle. Maybe I'm not letting it cool enough. I'll have to try this next time I get on the torch.

You probably need to let it cool longer. Try it with white or another color where you can "see the heat". Keep the mandrel tipped down until the white changes from clear to solid white. Once it's white the end should hold its shape.

Lara · #23 2006-06-13, 4:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyHampton

WOW Lara . . . awesome tips and pictures

Thanks Ginny.

cherylsart · #24 2006-06-13, 5:29pm

What a great thread! Now I have some stuff to try because I get the same problem with the funky ends. Woohoo! Thanks everyone!

Cheryl

Armstrong · #25 2006-06-16, 1:48pm

Ok, I have a marver question... do you hold the mandrel in place and roll to shape the barrel/bicone, or do you roll along the length of the marver? I just cannot get the hang of using a marver to help shape my beads.

Thanks!
Ana

SpitFire · #26 2006-06-17, 1:52pm

Ana -

I know how you feel about getting used to shaping your bead this way, I struggled too. BUT - I made myself do this and it was very frustrating at first and then one day - the light bulb went on and I got it. It takes just making yourself do it. This rolling technique vastly improved my bead shaping.

Keep going! and PPP!

Laura B · #27 2006-06-30, 11:50am

Update.

I finally got a chance to work on some beads (took a whole 2 hours to myself on my birthday... whoohoo!) and came up with these (yes, I know the beads are imperfect, but no tapered ends!!!).

Can't thank you all enough for your generous help! I will continue to practice.

Laura

Phoenix · #28 2006-06-30, 12:12pm

looking great- I like your color choices as well!

Laura B · #29 2006-06-30, 12:25pm

Thanks! I like bold colors. Here was one the same day (but different shape)...

Lara · #30 2006-06-30, 8:53pm

Wow, 100% better. I really like the orange and black bead and I'm not an orange person.