Questions and answers about working characteristics of glass types

Lisi · #1 2006-12-15, 11:51am

I thought it would be great to start a thread where we can share our experiences with working with certain glass types and certain finicky colors within those types. What works and what doesn't? In our own working fashion, how have we achieved the desired outcome?? Everyone has a different way of doing things, and it goes beyond experience and even just the type of torch set-up we have.

I'll give my "answers" to some things I have learned, and then I will have my "questions". Of course, I'm going to think of more later! You can even add a tip which you read about or learned from another lampworker, teacher, etc., that you may not have ever used yourself, but it's something that works for them.

Okay, here goes:

Working Effetre dark periwinkle albaster: I love this glass!! I use this one a lot and the others in the line too, mostly for base colors for frit beads. It is stiff and can develop scorch marks easily. I use the fine frit, size #0 in a single layer, because this glass is rumored to not get along with other glass, including those in it's own line. So far, no problems with cracking or crazing. Gotta love those translucent colors!

My tip is: be patient, and turn down the flame, higher oxy is better. (HH users, waayyy out in the flame), melt sloowww. When you are rounding out your bead, keep turning the mandrel steadily, and try not to heat too long in one spot, because it can create even just a slight scorch mark which will show after it's cooled. This glass can be difficult, but sooo nice when you get the hang of it!

A tip from Alex (AlexM) on rubino, and she really tamed this beast!: don't work too hot, avoid a reducing flame, and try not to strike too many times, it can burn the color out. If rubino is in the kiln too long, the color can darken and even get muddy, so it's best to make your rubino beads toward the end of your work time. (these aren't her exact words, but I learned this a long time ago, and it stuck well enough!

)

Okay, my questions!

I use a lot of frits, and since they have what appears to be a lower melting temp, I assume they are a lot more sensitive to being worked in the direct flame. They were originally designed to be "furnace glass" mediums for glass blowing large pieces, and that's why the colors are so intense, right??

When I melt the frit on the surface of the base beads (bases are usually Effetre or Uroboros), I notice that a lot of these colors get tiny little bubbles in them. Even still if I turn down the flame and work farther out. So I was wondering, is working the cane of these intense colors difficult to do without getting those teeny little bubbles? Or, is the stuff in cane form a dream to melt? I really want to try some Reichenbach cane as base beads for other frit colors, but I don't want "pitted" beads!

Okay then, what are some of the things you have learned in this crazy world of glass we live in??

Lisi · #2 2006-12-15, 6:10pm

???

Nobody wants to share some of their tips and tricks?? I'm not asking for your deepest darkest secrets, we all have those..

This thread is supposed be something we all can learn something from...

..

..

Okay, does anyone know the trick to getting Effetre carnelian opalino to strike to a nice rich color?? I have wasted a lot getting this nice but too pale "dirty peach".

help? pretty pleez??

earthandsky · #3 2006-12-15, 8:19pm

I just got some clear Reichenbach cane and it does melt like a dream, but gets those tiny little bubbles at the slightest inclination. I've not had it very long, but I think next time I use it, I'm going to keep it way out in the flame and see if I can keep it from bubbling.

Along the rubino line, it seems the transparent striking colors, like red and orange, are best done at the end of the torching session, as they'll turn livery if left in the kiln too long (or overcooked in the torch).

I've never worked with the carnelian, so I have nothing to offer there!

DawnT · #4 2006-12-16, 10:46am

The little bit of Reichenbach cane I have is very dark/saturated. I wonder if you could case a clear rod with the color and then case the color and pull that into a cane. Perhaps that would eliminate the boiling issue?

I only have a sampler pack of the reactive colors and since they didn't come labeled I've kind of put them away. They're so dark it's difficult to tell what color they are.

Lisa - I'm searching for an ivory (104) that is non-reactive with frits. Any suggestions? I've been thinking of trying the alabaster ivory.

Lisi · #5 2006-12-16, 2:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnT

Lisa - I'm searching for an ivory (104) that is non-reactive with frits. Any suggestions? I've been thinking of trying the alabaster ivory.

Hmmm...I don't have that color, I don't think! I'll have to look and then try it out.

Effetre's silver pink is an ivory-like color without all the reactions. I've got some of that on the way soon. I can't wait to try it!

Emily · #6 2006-12-16, 3:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnT

Lisa - I'm searching for an ivory (104) that is non-reactive with frits. Any suggestions? I've been thinking of trying the alabaster ivory.

Vetrofond light ivory. Just the light, not the dark. I haven't tried melting any frit in, but I've been able to do raised dots with reduction frit stringer without any of the fuming effect that I get with the Effetre ivories.

cadia · #7 2006-12-16, 4:20pm

I wish this forum had a section just devoted to glass colors and reactions- it would be very helpful to have it all in one place!

CorriDawn · #8 2006-12-16, 11:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadia

I wish this forum had a section just devoted to glass colors and reactions- it would be very helpful to have it all in one place!

It is currently being worked on. I can only demand so much from Jason though

Lisi · #9 2006-12-17, 7:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorriDawn

It is currently being worked on. I can only demand so much from Jason though

Well, in the meantime, that's why I started this thread.

I'm just really surprised that there aren't more responses to it. I was pretty sure this would be something we could all benefit from.

playswithfire104 · #10 2006-12-17, 9:15pm

Any one have any opal yellow or EDP or copper green tips?

Lisi · #11 2006-12-18, 7:06pm

EDP is something I rarely use because I hate the inconsistent color and that devit it gets. I end up etching whatever i make with it.

Opal yellow is nothing more than a yellowish cream color for me, I never get pink or mauve like some people do. Copper green I use a lot, but even with a good oxy flame it still gets that dull look to it which can be soaked off with Coke overnight or 10-15 minutes in a 2:1 toilet bowl cleaner/water solution. Then I get that beautiful seafoam green after I get the gunk off. One of my favorite colors!

Karen Hardy · #12 2006-12-18, 7:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefaniBeads

EDP is something I rarely use because I hate the inconsistent color and that devit it gets. I end up etching whatever i make with it.

In the class that I took with Jennifer Geldard she showed us an easy way
to work with EDP (she also showed us about 100 cool and awesome other
things - my head is still swimming!If you can take one of her classes, JUMP on it!!!).
The trick is to make your bead, add the Edp and IGNORE it until you're done making
your bead.

When you're all done, heat up the WHOLE bead to glowing and then kiln it.
The act of heating and cooling and heating and cooling is what makes it devit.
Try it - I'm getting some great results this way...

raindance · #13 2006-12-20, 1:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnT

Lisa - I'm searching for an ivory (104) that is non-reactive with frits. Any suggestions? I've been thinking of trying the alabaster ivory.

I bought a whole pound of this because it works so beautifully with frit. Since light can pass through the base, I think it enhances the color of the frit much more than a pastel color. It's a kind of antique white color, so it isn't as drastic a contrast with colored frit as the white...so it looks more natural, IMO. It doesn't seem to be reactive like the pastel ivories.

DawnT · #14 2006-12-20, 9:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by raindance

I bought a whole pound of this because it works so beautifully with frit. Since light can pass through the base, I think it enhances the color of the frit much more than a pastel color. It's a kind of antique white color, so it isn't as drastic a contrast with colored frit as the white...so it looks more natural, IMO. It doesn't seem to be reactive like the pastel ivories.

Thank you!

Lisi · #15 2006-12-20, 9:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by raindance

I bought a whole pound of this because it works so beautifully with frit. Since light can pass through the base, I think it enhances the color of the frit much more than a pastel color. It's a kind of antique white color, so it isn't as drastic a contrast with colored frit as the white...so it looks more natural, IMO. It doesn't seem to be reactive like the pastel ivories.

Thank you too! LOL! It's good to know this because I found some!

Lisi · #16 2006-12-20, 9:44am

This may be a useful tip to some:

Still fighting with raku? I got this color to come out with not a lot of effort. I made a round round bead, rolled it in raku size #0, went back in melted that in, added fine stringer wisps of copper green, went back in to melt that, slight cool then press with brass masher, go back in to fire polish chill marks out. By the time I did all those steps, the color pops out. I didn't have to repeat the press at all. I like the raku size #0, it seems to "pop" better.

Lara · #17 2006-12-20, 7:39pm

Vetrofound light ivory is a favorite of mine. It will react with the frit and other colors (ie copper green, torquoise, etc), but to a much lesser extent than the other ivories. I'm down to 3 rods and need more. EEEK.

HMMMMMM tips...

Opal yellow to get pinks work long and hot. Super hot, soupy hot. Through in some intense black to tease out the pink color.

HH tip - sometimes it can be hard to get intense black to break up and get lacey on the HH, so I used to make a round bead, put on the IB stringer, then heat the entire bead to soupy and then tip the mandrel up to let the glass flow down the mandrel. This helps shape the bead and get the IB to break up.

Lisi · #18 2006-12-20, 10:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lara

Vetrofound light ivory is a favorite of mine. It will react with the frit and other colors (ie copper green, torquoise, etc), but to a much lesser extent than the other ivories. I'm down to 3 rods and need more. EEEK.

HMMMMMM tips...

Opal yellow to get pinks work long and hot. Super hot, soupy hot. Through in some intense black to tease out the pink color.

HH tip - sometimes it can be hard to get intense black to break up and get lacey on the HH, so I used to make a round bead, put on the IB stringer, then heat the entire bead to soupy and then tip the mandrel up to let the glass flow down the mandrel. This helps shape the bead and get the IB to break up.

Oh yeah, that's right! Lara, now I remember what beads you made using those colors! Okay I won't be afraid of the opal yellow, because it does get really soupy, like the ivories!

SuzyQ · #19 2006-12-21, 4:59am

I know for me to answer this thread I have to decide what to share or write a book. I find it easier to answer questions.

Carnelian - To get a nice salmon pink try high O2 and very low propane.

Reichenbach cane - I have tried almost every color and there are some that just pit. They do not like brass and drastic cooling and reheating.

SuzyQ · #20 2006-12-21, 5:02am

nevermind

SuzyQ · #21 2006-12-21, 5:03am

oops

raindance · #22 2006-12-23, 10:35pm

Your welcom Dawn and Lisi!

Lisi · #23 2006-12-23, 10:36pm

Hey, thanks for rating the thread!

I got another tip for y'all!

Copper Blue frit, made by Reichenbach and Gaffer, both I think:

You know how it has a tendency to "pit", well, boil a little when you're working it, and no matter how cool the flame it does it anyway? I found that no matter what base color or COE glass I use it on it did that, and it looks like little "sparkles" when I was melting it in. Those little bubbles end up being the "pits".

This is how your work can become "pit free" when using this color. Gravity swirl the bead, poke and twist, or rake it around a bit. It seems like when you move the glass around on the surface of your work it "settles down" and starts behaving. So, basically you would be working a little longer in the flame this way rather than just melting in a layer of frit. Still gotta work it cool though.

I've made some wonderful deep aqua beads with this pretty stuff, and even examined the beads under a magnifiying glass after annealing. Voila! No pits, just smooth glass!

BTW - you really don't have to worry about pits when you put this stuff over silver leaf/foil, because the surface of silvered beads is not perfectly glassy smooth anyway.

LAG · #24 2006-12-25, 7:17am

[quote=DawnT;900123]The little bit of Reichenbach cane I have is very dark/saturated. I wonder if you could case a clear rod with the color and then case the color and pull that into a cane. Perhaps that would eliminate the boiling issue?

QUOTE]

I am thinking if you were to encase this, you would have to use a clear cane of 96 coe since most of the Reichenbach canes are 96. In which case (pun) you would probably increase your probability of a cracked finished product, unless you use all 96 glass.

Maybe someone else has some feedback on this point. I know Larry Brickman can do amazing things with frits.

And Kimberly Affleck has said to me that she never has a problem with incompatibility because she heats the glass enough that it virtually recreates its own COE. Something she has learned from "the big boys" like Lucio and Roger P.