presses and bubbles - Page 2

SuzyQ · #31 2005-12-09, 3:46am

Interesting. I guess my "dontcha go making bubbles in my beads" chant works

I didn't mention it so you wouldn't think I was crazy. I'm sticking with my two day old mandrel approach until I see those darn bubbles again.

art-with-heart · #32 2005-12-09, 6:30am

I know the bubbles you are talking about! When I first started using presses I would always get the explosion of the release inside of my beads. I usually didn't care about it unless it was made out of transparent glass. There for a long time I just never made transparent pressed beads.

As time went by I learned to press my beads a little cooler then I used to, so I would have to make at least 2 squeezes. I do a preliminary press and then another press. When I tried this method on transparent glass, it fixed the bubble problem! So maybe it's not the bead release that's the problem but the stress on the glass when it's being pressed. The cooler the glass the slower it moves and that seems to help with the bubbles along the mandrels.

Just my thoughts...

Catherine

lunesse · #33 2005-12-09, 9:13am

This is awesome folks. So many things to try. I definitely heat the hell out of my release, I will try dipping thinner, keeping it wetter, and not heating it so hot right before using. Probably I will try each seperately and see what happens.

earth*monkey · #34 2005-12-09, 10:28am

Great thread. Awesome tips by Kimberly. Rated 5 stars.

evenia · #35 2005-12-09, 10:30am

I whole heartedly agree with Renee. I fell in love with Mudd about 6 months ago. I was speaking of it's virtues in chat the other nite. There is only one problem I have found with it and it is easily fixed. When making long beads keep where you are about to place the glass glowing just a bit. If the release gets to cool it breaks loose. That is only on beads longer than 1" that has happened to. Even if that part was preheated. but once the glass is on I have NEVER had one break loose and I have also not had any I can't get off the mandrel either. I truely love this stuff! Timberwolf Studios maakes it. You can get it online. www.timberwolfstudios.net

Solana · #36 2005-12-09, 11:24am

Boy, have I missed out on a lot since last night! I'm crazy busy at work, and this is the first I can post. Whew!

Maybe I'm weird, but the things people have suggested...I've done. I use Sludge Plus and dip my mandrels with a VERY thin coat. I always add water to my release before dipping. In fact, the release is so thin, sometimes, that I have a hard time getting the beads off the mandrel!

Anyway, I've still experienced this with my thin release coat...although...not as much as when the release is thicker.

I also don't over heat my release, and do EXACTLY what Kimberly suggested. I rotate the mandrel and heat the release to a glow and slowly work in one direction.

Hmmm...maybe it's mostly the brand name of the release. Maybe Sludge Plus just doesn't like the stress of being pressed to many times.

Either way...this is great! Thanks so much for responding everyone!

RSimmons · #37 2005-12-09, 11:28am

I don't think that your problem is residual water. Water (unless under pressure) boils at 100 degrees C. Your propane/oxygen flame is 2800 degrees C, more or less. Once you run your mandrel through the flame and get it hot, there's no water left. I've experienced bubble problems before myself and I think it's got another cause. You can trap gasses from the flame or air in the matrix of the release, especially it it's put on thick, as in double dipping. The release has some porosity to it and theway you dry it can affect the way it sets up. Heating and cooling can draw gasses into the matrix. If these gasses expand again when heated after you've applied glass you'll get a bubble. I've had fewer bubbles since I started using a thinned release layer.

It's a theory, nothing more.

Robert

PaulaD · #38 2005-12-09, 12:14pm

I use Foster Fire the same way Kimberely does---really drippy. Lately I've been mixing it with Sludge just to add a little graphite! I'm making 2 and 3 inch beads easily and they are not bubbling or breaking....Actually since I went back to Foster Fire I have no spinners at all..Paula

Kaibeads · #39 2005-12-09, 1:01pm

i get bubbles off the madrel only when the glass is qucikly over heated. If I carefully and slowly heat the glass to molten and not more so than needed, bubbles at the mandrel never appear.

edit : oh and its possible, the glass isnt molten enough to form to the mold and cracking the release.

ChaseDesigns · #40 2005-12-09, 5:49pm

My first thought is what Cathrine said. I think it has more to do with how hot the bead is when you press it that first time as opposed to water in the bead release. My recomendation would be to try pressing a series of beads at different starting temps. Deanna doesn't seem to have this problem and she makes a LOT of pressed beads. They're her bread and butter. Temperature of bead at time of pressing is important. And she does multiple pressings, she really likes nicely pressed beads and that's really tough without multiple pressings. I do make pressed beads as well and also don't have this problem. How hot is it when you do your 2nd-whatever pressings? Ours are pretty cooled for those pressings. To the point where it would be hard to develope bubbles for the other pressings.

Just a thought.

Greg

lunesse · #41 2005-12-09, 8:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelin'gal

My first thought is what Cathrine said. I think it has more to do with how hot the bead is when you press it that first time as opposed to water in the bead release. My recomendation would be to try pressing a series of beads at different starting temps. Deanna doesn't seem to have this problem and she makes a LOT of pressed beads. They're her bread and butter. Temperature of bead at time of pressing is important. And she does multiple pressings, she really likes nicely pressed beads and that's really tough without multiple pressings. I do make pressed beads as well and also don't have this problem. How hot is it when you do your 2nd-whatever pressings? Ours are pretty cooled for those pressings. To the point where it would be hard to develope bubbles for the other pressings.

Just a thought.

Greg

Hm. Usually cooler. BUT. If I screw up or don't have enough glass, I heat the whole thing up again to make it a new "first press," which might be part of the issue. But that's not always the case... I get it all glowy again before pressing, but not super soft, just heat it to glow and press. too much?

SuzyQ · #42 2005-12-10, 7:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelin'gal

My first thought is what Cathrine said. I think it has more to do with how hot the bead is when you press it that first time as opposed to water in the bead release. My recomendation would be to try pressing a series of beads at different starting temps. Deanna doesn't seem to have this problem and she makes a LOT of pressed beads. They're her bread and butter. Temperature of bead at time of pressing is important. And she does multiple pressings, she really likes nicely pressed beads and that's really tough without multiple pressings. I do make pressed beads as well and also don't have this problem. How hot is it when you do your 2nd-whatever pressings? Ours are pretty cooled for those pressings. To the point where it would be hard to develope bubbles for the other pressings.

Just a thought.

Greg

With all due respect I have never seen a straight transparant pressed bead from Deanna

Does she make them?

I tested a few things yesterday. I do think a thinner layer of release may matter. I had a few gloppy applications from trying to apply somewhat frozen release the other day and those gave me bubbles on the second press. I did try really cooling after one press and just heating the outside for the second press and still got the bubbles.
Then I tried the very thin layer of release and only 12 hours of drying time. No bubbles.
Of course this could all change with the next full moon.... but thought I would share.

alexm · #43 2005-12-10, 2:28pm

I am in agreement with Kimberly. I've found that the thicker the release, the more prone to breakage, so make sure that your release is thin enough (add water if necessary) and never double dip. I mix my own release and never get any cracking. If you don't mind spending $, use Fusion. It's pricy, but it's the best pre-mixed release on the market in IMHO. It's a thin release and it can be thinned down some more if you prefer. The only down side of it is that beads can be hard to remove, but I have never, ever had the release crack with Fusion.

lunesse · #44 2007-07-12, 1:35pm

note how OLD this thread is. 2 years. I still haven't solved this.

Im still getting bubbles in my pressed lentils. I guess really, I need to just sit down with a bunch of clear and make them until I solve it.

Yesterdays' heartbreak:

Bubble on left side, near cubic zirconia. I can't sell that! *sigh* And they are SO noticeable when it's just translucent glass, no swirls.

GAAAAAAAAAH. *rage*

melzip · #45 2007-07-12, 2:15pm

I used to get the bubbles all the time, but figured out when I stopped pressing so hard, those bubbles stopped. It's okay to press a few times, just dont do it hard, and you wont get the bubbles. Also, be sure your mandrel is hot enough before making your initial footprint.

AKDesigns · #46 2007-07-12, 3:47pm

I call the these "blow outs" and I think it has to do with pressing the bead too hard when the glass around the mandrel has gotten too cool.

SuzyQ · #47 2007-07-12, 4:24pm

LOL! ok, my solution is the opposite. I think it is the core around the mandrel being too hot for this particular shape. I let the bead cool longer than usual before pressing. I do a slight press in the base only, flip and do another. It doesn't become a full lentil but kind of a half pressed lentil. Then I reheat so it doesn't loose shape but can be pressed completely on the second try. I only have this problem on my lentils and I make the mistake when I pull out the press and try to give it a complete press after my winding.

lunesse · #48 2007-07-12, 4:29pm

I will try all these solutions tomorrow, sounds like pressing too much (hard) might be something I'm doing.

I will just haul out the cheap clear and try for 10-15 min each time I torch. FEH! =)

ChaseDesigns · #49 2007-07-13, 5:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzyQ

With all due respect I have never seen a straight transparant pressed bead from Deanna

Does she make them?

I tested a few things yesterday. I do think a thinner layer of release may matter. I had a few gloppy applications from trying to apply somewhat frozen release the other day and those gave me bubbles on the second press. I did try really cooling after one press and just heating the outside for the second press and still got the bubbles.
Then I tried the very thin layer of release and only 12 hours of drying time. No bubbles.
Of course this could all change with the next full moon.... but thought I would share.

HAHA, nope not much back then. I do make transparent beads now though, and Greg was right. I don't have too much of a problem with it.

OKay, when it is too cold (and I press too hard) the bead release breaks up a little and causes little bead release bubbles. When it is too hot sometimes I can get bubbles. However I have found that if I reheat it and try again, sometimes the bubbles go away. And I just reheat it enough to get is warm, but not lose the shape.

And I do think the bead release it'self can be an issue. Too thick or too much helps to cause bubbles.

lunesse · #50 2007-07-13, 3:08pm

Went slower today, got some bubbles on the very first gentle press. Pressed cool, didn't get them sometimes, sometimes I did. But then the edges were very rounded, not precise. Pressed hot, quickly, and had none....or had a bunch. I know reheating makes them shrink/go away, but then I lose shape. It seems that a crisp edged press out of translucent glass isn't really easy at all.

I use Bucket of Mud, for what it's worth.

ARGHGHSDHGHSDGHGHGHG.

ChaseDesigns · #51 2007-07-14, 6:18am

Maybe you could try supper heating your transparent glass before you press? Sometimes if i supper heat the base color bubbles will appear, then I can get them out before I start shaping.

lunesse · #52 2007-07-27, 1:00pm

It's still happening. I just cannot press a lentil without this happening! What is my BRASS wonky? WHY lentils? Why all the time, if hot or cold? I swear I am going to LOSE IT. Why can't I do this. One rod, one color, press a lentil, no bubbles. Why have I made beads for 3+ years and I can't do this. WHY WHY WHY I am going to really go insane.

ziggys · #53 2007-07-29, 12:51am

Maybe it IS the press ??? I read this whole thread but its 4am so not sure if you mentioned trying a different lentil press? Seems like there could be a bad press made.
FWIW,
Angela

Kalera · #54 2007-07-29, 1:13am

I have been obsessing over this bubble problem for days! I have had the release-breakage bubbles, but not the clear ones that you get, that seem to be gas emerging from the mandrel. I am MYSTIFIED. I have a friend who is a failure analyst, I am thinking about asking him what on earth could be causing this! In the meantime, you wanna try some of my release?

Gail Joseph · #55 2007-07-29, 9:36am

I'm so glad I just found this thread. I truly thought it was just me! I have mainly noticed the problem with lentils, and had just about decided that I could only make opaque lentils! I use Smooth & Tough now, and will try thinning it out a lot and see what happens!-Gail

lunesse · #56 2007-07-29, 6:27pm

Kalera, do you have a lentil press I could borrow sometime for an hour?

All I need to do is just try a different one and see to rule out that it's the press itself..... Geeze.

Kalera · #57 2007-07-29, 7:23pm

I have HUGE ones and teeny ones... nothing in between, but you are welcome to borrow one! I was thinking of getting a medium-sized one too, and if I do you can definitely borrow that too.

Gail Joseph · #58 2007-07-29, 9:24pm

I have it happen more with the smaller lentils than the larger ones, if that means anything to anyone!

lunesse · #59 2007-07-30, 6:23pm

Bibbity Boppity Boo,
Bubbles make my beads look like poo....

=)

I love you guys. Too hot, not hot enough, press to hard, press to late, press to early.....

I think it's actually sort of interesting folks get the bubbles different ways, even.

GAAHGHAGHAHGAHGHAG.

Kalera, at some point I will come fetch one for a weekend, then bring it back.

lunesse · #60 2012-01-11, 5:12pm

This is is still driving me CRAAAAAAAAAAAZY. STILL get bubbles. Now I am using Foster fire instead of Bucket....and it still happens. Anyone else ever solve it?