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  #31  
Old 2008-08-05, 10:16am
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Originally Posted by Sherena View Post
This might have been an informative thread for others, yet again...senseless denouncing and vituperation has taken over.

I wonder if consumers will ever get to see feedback from a strictly consumers standpoint.

I have been following the countless threads on the Oxygen Concentrators. I have been in the market for one to purchase for the last year. I am taking my time trying to decide on what I should purchase and from which vendor, I am interested in user reviews, as to help me make an informed decision. Reading threads like this has made me shy away from making a purchase from any one vendor for any particular concentrator.

When I buy any new piece of equipment or tool that is of any significant value I like to read non-biased reviews. For example - on buying a new SLR camera I read many reviews from various sources. I valued the user reviews. I never once saw the vendors offer their point of view or offer advice while reading "user review" sections. Another example - When we bought tools to renovate our house, we read reviews and made our decision based on the information of other peoples experience with those specific tools. I am sure the examples could go on.....

Do you read reviews from the manufacturers and vendors of cars when you are looking to buy one? or do you like to hear and read what other people have to say about the car without biased input???

As there is no place yet other than Forums to gain information from users of specific Oxygen concentrators and how they would review them, this is probably a good of venue to start in.

Maybe someone (non-vendor specific) could make a webpage, list the oxygen concentrators out there that are in use by the lampworking community and have it enabled so that users can write reviews and rate the oxygen concentrators.

Understanding how others are using the oxygen concentrators, what torch they are using, how long they have been using the concentrator for and the reliability issue - is valuable information for everyone.
This sounds like a fantastic idea!

I'm just as tired of the negativity as everybody else. My apologies to you and everybody who has had to try and sort things out. It really shouldn't be this hard to figure out what will suit your needs. As far as I'm concerned, there really isn't a wrong choice. There's pros and cons to every concentrator on the market. I hope everybody finds something they are happy with.
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  #32  
Old 2008-08-09, 11:57am
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Originally Posted by loco View Post
Wow..... You just invalidated yourself. Congratulations while it normally takes 10 times your post number for me to file anyone into the asshole category, your a weiner!

I know you really don't care, but TRY to realize I have only said less than 4 negative things about posters since I've been here, and it's been since day dot.. Three years. Ummmmm makes me wonder.....

Edited to add: I read your posts and I agree I'm going fishing! Fish hard or soak a bait!
Thats alot of blood there girl,me thinks I will nor go fishing with you couse what you may use for bait might meen I wont be comming back from fishing
Grow up good ol boy

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  #33  
Old 2008-08-09, 12:45pm
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Getting back to the question at hand, I love oxygen concentrators, but I have had my ups and downs with them. I first had the Unlimited Oxygen's
M5 which I personally would not recommend simply because it is just too small. It barely fuels a minor burner. I used it for six months until it just suddenly died in the middle of the night while torching...no warning....just made a loud bang and died. It was still under warranty. The manufacturer made good on the warranty, but I had to pay shipping back to them which was $50 plus I had to find something to ship it in. I don't know how the one person who posted on this thread got them to pay return shipping....they absolutely refused to do this. But they did let me pay the difference and upgrade that unit for their M10 which I used nonstop for 9 months until I sold it to a friend who says it is working fine. Another friend has this model and has used it for three years. Six months ago I upgraded to a hurricane from Unlimited Oxygen. So far I love it. It is loud and sometimes it shakes and makes noises but usually smoothes out. I look at it sometimes and wonder if it is about to die but like I said this usually stops after a few minutes. It is powering a lynx beautifully. You get used to the noise and you will not even notice it. It did take a long time for the manufacturer to get me this particular model and several phone calls to find out where my unit was. Right now, I am having a minor issue since I paid for filters that have never been shipped although they charged my credit card. I have had this problem before trying to get filters from this manufacturer shipped as well. There are definate drawbacks to the concentrator thing, but to me not having to deal with tanks and trying to find a supplier in a rural area is a blessing. Now that I have given praise to my Unlimited Oxygen Hurricane I need to go knock on wood so I don't encourage the wrath of the glass gods or cause a cosmic lemon cloud to befall my unit. Further advice to anyone buying a concentrator....cause eventually you will have trouble just like eventually your car is gonna break down....if there is anyway possible save the packing box the concentrator comes in.
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  #34  
Old 2008-08-19, 10:27am
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Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
You hijacked your own thread and turned it ugly. I offered advise to a fellow glass blower having an issue. I would have done that for anybody in any thread.
Thank you,
I'm always happy to hear what you have to say.( I for one think you know a little about glass and tools and find your info very valuble.)
Thanks,
G.
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  #35  
Old 2008-08-19, 11:26am
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While at the Gathering I heard the Regalia running at open torch and I was overwhelmed by how quiet it was, compared to my OG20. If I win the lottery I would really like to try the Regalia paired with the Cheetah. Although obviously the noise doesn't bother some people, it does bother me.
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  #36  
Old 2008-08-27, 11:40am
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I can post! Woohooo!

Since I'm no longer going to spend my time taking orders my opinion is valid. I can't tell you how much better I feel about myself... I was wandering around aimlessly, missing my credibility.

I've had two Unlimited Oxygen M20's for almost 3 years and they power my Bethlehem Barracuda wonderfully! I have not had a single issue and they are still going strong! I use them alomost every day in a very humid dirty environment. Love UO for giving me what I need to power a mid sized torch and work boro all day long.
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  #37  
Old 2008-08-27, 9:39pm
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it really looks like good ol boy was fishing for mr smiley. he put the bait out there and waited to see if he would respond. i did buy my m15 from mr smiley and he was great. my concentrator did have a problem with the area where you attached your hose and it was taken care of. i am not a vendor. i like my m15. i have looked at the regalia but do not want to spend almost twice as much to get a product that is pretty similar to the m15. i know the regalia is new and it is digital but why buy a caddy when the chevy works just fine.i suspect the markup on the regalia is at least double the wholesale cost.its marketed to those who want the 'best" product and all posts by the vendor who sells it is aimed at discrediting the m15. i think the reason why=major competition.
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  #38  
Old 2008-08-27, 9:44pm
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oh,
regarding high humidity and the m15 i torch in my garage and keep the concentrator in the mudd room next to the garage. the humidity is controlled as is the temperature and the concentrator likes that.
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  #39  
Old 2008-08-28, 5:04am
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Bgurden, I'm glad you are enjoying your M-15 and I won't argue that someone may have been trying to drag Brent into the thread, as I really don't know. However, I can say that Kimberly has good scientific data behind her position with regard to the Unlimited Oxygen concentrators, as she has stated many times. You can choose to believe them or not, and that is fine, but I think it is sad that you would think and state that the only reason she believes the way she does is because of competition. Perhaps my opinion is based on the fact that I know her and I know how high her ethical standards are in regard to her business. I'm sorry to see this thread once again take a turn to attempting to sully a person's reputation instead of sticking to the subject of concentrators.
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  #40  
Old 2008-08-28, 6:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Bgurden, I'm glad you are enjoying your M-15 and I won't argue that someone may have been trying to drag Brent into the thread, as I really don't know. However, I can say that Kimberly has good scientific data behind her position with regard to the Unlimited Oxygen concentrators, as she has stated many times. You can choose to believe them or not, and that is fine, but I think it is sad that you would think and state that the only reason she believes the way she does is because of competition. Perhaps my opinion is based on the fact that I know her and I know how high her ethical standards are in regard to her business. I'm sorry to see this thread once again take a turn to attempting to sully a person's reputation instead of sticking to the subject of concentrators.
Sad to see it? Really? I've seen you and her try to do some sullying yourself. From torches to concentrators... to people with a different opinion. I guess the only ethical people are the ones you agree with... all others are worth tearing apart. Now I don't have a monetary dog in the fight... and as far as my opinion goes... it's unchanged. I still think UO units are the best bang for the buck and I'll use them in my studio for the rest of my days... and I won't hesitate to refer my friends to use them too.
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  #41  
Old 2008-08-28, 6:55am
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Mr Smiley - take a look at my thread on Betta's and Oxygen. I need some suggestions and I'd highly appreciate your input.
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  #42  
Old 2008-08-28, 7:44am
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And so the trend continues.

Sorry, Brent, but I think it's been quite a while since I spoke harshly about UO. I met and spoke with Jack at the Gathering and he seems to be a really nice guy. Even he admitted at the beginning the UO concentrators were having major problems. I think he is making every effort to produce a quality product now and I have heard of very few problems with his later machines.

Do I still believe that fundamentally it is a flawed design to rig a machine to produce more than it should? Yes, and that opinion on my part came from discussions with five different engineers who each said that the lifespan of the units would be shortened drastically, and feedback from users who purchased the units when they were first produced. What Jack is doing now with the units, I don't know, but the feedback among many who are using the newer units has definitely improved.

As far as you go, Brent, I think you are a very talented artist who speaks passionately about whatever it is he believes in. Sometimes I agree with those opinions and sometimes I don't. It would be a very sad and uninformed world if everyone agreed about everything all the time.
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  #43  
Old 2008-08-28, 8:24am
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Quote:
all posts by the vendor who sells it is aimed at discrediting the m15. i think the reason why=major competition.
Is it really that obvious?
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  #44  
Old 2008-08-28, 8:39am
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Originally Posted by pam View Post
And so the trend continues.

Sorry, Brent, but I think it's been quite a while since I spoke harshly about UO. I met and spoke with Jack at the Gathering and he seems to be a really nice guy. Even he admitted at the beginning the UO concentrators were having major problems. I think he is making every effort to produce a quality product now and I have heard of very few problems with his later machines.

Do I still believe that fundamentally it is a flawed design to rig a machine to produce more than it should? Yes, and that opinion on my part came from discussions with five different engineers who each said that the lifespan of the units would be shortened drastically, and feedback from users who purchased the units when they were first produced. What Jack is doing now with the units, I don't know, but the feedback among many who are using the newer units has definitely improved.

As far as you go, Brent, I think you are a very talented artist who speaks passionately about whatever it is he believes in. Sometimes I agree with those opinions and sometimes I don't. It would be a very sad and uninformed world if everyone agreed about everything all the time.
I think we're all pretty passionate... heck, we're artists. It just kinda gets my goat when a pot calls the kettle black. We should all be allowed to speak our minds and support what we believe in. I support UO because I've tested them... tested them HARD! I'm not sure what tests the engineers you spoke to have done and maybe they're just guessing about what these mods are... nobody but Jack really knows what they are doing to these machines to increase their output and I doubt he's going to broadcast his trade secrets for review. Jack is a really nice guy. He's never denied the problems they've had along the way and he is constantly making improvements. That's all my argument has been all along.

and since Kimberly's data has been called into the discussion, let's look at that for a moment. No, I'm not going to tear it apart. I'm going to assume it's right for the purpose of a little comparison. She has said the M-15 puts out good purity at 6 LPM... Ok, so two M-15s would be around $1200 (give or take) delivered to the US and according to her numbers, they will give you 12 LPM at @15 PSI. That is still more flow and pressure than a Regalia and you've got about $300 left over to spend on glass... or maybe a tank of gas... so even with those lower flow rates, UO is still a better deal. I know mine perform better than 6 LPM, but hey, worst case scenario... UO still makes sense.
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  #45  
Old 2008-08-28, 8:52am
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I have a hurricane that I use with a lynx...works great, almost identical to compressed tanks. My colors are great...better than I got with my barracuda and tanks actually. There is a lack of that super crazy high end scream the lynx can get on tanks but I don't like or use that flame anyways. I can make everything I make in the same amount of time I was able with tanks.

I think Jack is a good guy and is trying to make our costs lower and save our backs by keeping us from moving tanks around. If everyone trashes him for trying to make a stronger machine and he stops trying...we will be stuck with low output medical units or spending 6k on real generators.

I've had my hurricane for about 4 months...it's already paid for itself and saving me money. I'm not a 1 year noob talking out of my butt about colors and performance either...10 years and 9 torches behind me, i'm not a great glass maker but i've seen alot. This concentrator war makes me feel like i'm at a presidential debate...isn't this supposed to be fun?
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  #46  
Old 2008-08-28, 9:14am
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Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
I have a hurricane that I use with a lynx...works great, almost identical to compressed tanks. My colors are great...better than I got with my barracuda and tanks actually. There is a lack of that super crazy high end scream the lynx can get on tanks but I don't like or use that flame anyways. I can make everything I make in the same amount of time I was able with tanks.

I think Jack is a good guy and is trying to make our costs lower and save our backs by keeping us from moving tanks around. If everyone trashes him for trying to make a stronger machine and he stops trying...we will be stuck with low output medical units or spending 6k on real generators.

I've had my hurricane for about 4 months...it's already paid for itself and saving me money. I'm not a 1 year noob talking out of my butt about colors and performance either...10 years and 9 torches behind me, i'm not a great glass maker but i've seen alot. This concentrator war makes me feel like i'm at a presidential debate...isn't this supposed to be fun?
Well stated...

I've got a Hurricane on the way and I'm going to use it to step up a torch size or two... Can't wait. Lugging tanks sucks. I did it for too many years and I need more power than a medical unit or a Regalia will provide. For most larger torches, pressure is just as important as volume. Sure, I could go with an Onsite beast... but I don't have that much money to drop... or space.
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  #47  
Old 2008-08-28, 9:24am
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Hi Brent, thanks for your reply. I am passionate about what I believe it, as you are. Most of the time my passions are, perhaps, more "generic" than yours. I want all of our beadmakers to be able to make a purchase that is right for them; kiln, torch, concentrator or whatever. Although I do support those purchases I have made, as you do, I do try to remember that what others want out of a piece of equipment, whatever it is, may be different than what I want.

Just for your information, the engineers I spoke to had no first-hand experience with the machine at all, but just the overall idea of taking a machine that produces one outcome and forcing it to produce something higher. As you just said, Jack obviously had problems with his machines early on as forecasted by those engineers. However, either he has changed what he is doing or he has found a way to, perhaps, make whatever he was doing work. I don't know and I don't care what he is doing as long as it works and makes for a wise purchase for beadmakers who make the decision to purchase his machines.

Just as an aside, you can also look at your paragraph regarding the cost of 2 M-15s and say that for an extra $300 the purchaser will get a new machine as opposed to a reconditioned one, one source to expend electricity instead of two. You can also look at it and say, well, if I want to use half the power one day, then it will cost me much less to run 1 M-15. The same engineers I spoke with before also looked at the machine I bought and suggested that at the rate I use it with proper maintenance it should last for 40 years. I don't think most of the reconditioned machines will last that long and that's the reason I made the purchase I did. Now, I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, but just that we all need to remember to look at both sides of an issue. What is right for one person may not be right for the other. At the time I purchased mine I had the funds to put into something that I believe will last me the rest of my life. The extra expense at the time didn't bother me as I was working fulltime and had the money to spend. Someone else may be in a different position and not have the funds right now to spend and they can really not care that the machine may have a shorter life-span. We all see things differently because of where we are in life at the time.

I firmly hope that the newer UO machines continue to live up to the confidence you have had in them. I sincerely hope that this more affordable alternative is as good as I have heard recently and that it will last for a period of time that makes the investment worth it. It seems at this point in time that it is doing just that.
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  #48  
Old 2008-08-28, 12:05pm
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You know, I have been staying out of this thread because it requested that no vendors participate, but this post that I am about to address has now dragged me into it. I am going to respond - I can't not respond to this. I hope everyone understands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgurden View Post
it really looks like good ol boy was fishing for mr smiley. he put the bait out there and waited to see if he would respond.
I don't know whether Good 'ol Boy was baiting anyone, or not. He could have just as easily been baiting me as any other concentrator vendor.

But, boy, your post sure seems like it is baiting me. I'm going to address it, anyway.

Quote:
i did buy my m15 from mr smiley and he was great. my concentrator did have a problem with the area where you attached your hose and it was taken care of. i am not a vendor. i like my m15.
I think it's great that you like your M-15, bgurden. No one, myself included, has ever told anyone that they should not like their M-15s if they are doing what they should be doing.

All I have ever insisted is that people educate themselves to what is out there and what they can reasonably expect.

I first reported my experience(s) with UO before I was ever a vendor. My opinion did not change once I became a vendor (and it would not change if I were to no longer be a vendor, either). If anything, over the passage of time, I have seen more complaints, several of which were very similar to mine. When I have related this (my experience and the others), I have also included the statement that I am aware that other people have had different experiences from me. I thought that I had made that clear.

Quote:
i have looked at the regalia but do not want to spend almost twice as much to get a product that is pretty similar to the m15.
The M-15 is NOT similar to the Regalia. They are completely different machines and the difference is more than one is new and one is not.

Quote:
i know the regalia is new and it is digital but why buy a caddy when the chevy works just fine.
If you were indeed comparing a Cadillac to a Chevrolet, then well, that's your opinion and everyone has one. But, like I said, the differences are more than that.

Even still, if you like your M-15, and it does what you want, more power to you. Enjoy it in good health.

Quote:
i suspect the markup on the regalia is at least double the wholesale cost.
I sure wish that that were the case - I'd be rich! Just curious, what do you think the mark-up is on the UO units? Before you answer, I should let you know that I have a distributor price list.

Quote:
its marketed to those who want the 'best" product and all posts by the vendor who sells it is aimed at discrediting the m15. i think the reason why=major competition.
First of all, my posts are not all aimed at discrediting the M-15. I have hundreds of posts regarding concentrators - thousands on this and other forums in regards to torch set-ups and torches. My posts that discuss the M-15 are aimed at dispelling rumors and myths and getting down to the truth of what they really are and what they really do. If after knowing what they really are and what they really do, someone makes the decision to purchase one, then at least they are making an educated choice. I'm not against people buying M-15s, I just want them to make an informed decision.

Secondly, I am not motvated by competition to dispell these rumors and myths. Misinformation affects me, but not for reasons of competition. I don't want someone to purchase a machine that should be doing one thing to be (1) disillusioned about all concentrators, or (2) think that their torch is faulty when the set-up does not perform as promised. That is not the case with all M-15s, but it has been the case with enough of them to cause me concern.

As for what I have reported from my analyzer project, it is scientific data. It is not my personal opinion, but rather measurements that have been gathered by myself and other people. Why would I post false data if someone else could use the same tools to disprove it?
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  #49  
Old 2008-08-28, 12:23pm
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Is it really that obvious?
Ya' wanna know what is really obvious? What is really obvious is that you are trying to discredit me every chance you get. Do you have a personal issue with me?

Maybe it all started when I called you out about false claims regarding your ability to sell GTT torches. I remember pointing out the picture of the GTT Python on your website and your claim that you could sell any of the GTT torches when in fact no distributor at that time could sell the Python and you were not even a distributor. Thanks for remving the picture and the claims. Oh, hey, do you still have the GTT logo on your business card? You might want to change that, too.

Or, maybe you started to have a problem with me when a guy on the GLDG talked about how long it took to get a GTT torch from you and when it got to him, it did not have the instructional DVD in it. I let him know that you were not a GTT distributor, so that is why it took so long to get his torch (oh, and that GTT does not require advanced payment, so it was not our fault if he had any money tied up - hey, kind of like AIM kilns, huh?). I don't know what happened to his DVD. Do you have any thoughts on that, Dennis? Whatever happened to the DVD that came with the torch you sold to that guy?

I digress.

What might not be so obvious on this particular forum is that you, sir, are the one with a bad reputation in the glass world. You are the one who has been chased off of more forums for your dealings and behavior than I have ever logged on to.

I think people ought to know about your true reputation when they read you trying to tear apart mine.

'just thought I'd back up my assertion that Dennis has a bad reputation by linking to a thread here on LE:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=102819
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Old 2008-08-28, 12:48pm
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Hi Brent, thanks for your reply. I am passionate about what I believe it, as you are. Most of the time my passions are, perhaps, more "generic" than yours. I want all of our beadmakers to be able to make a purchase that is right for them; kiln, torch, concentrator or whatever. Although I do support those purchases I have made, as you do, I do try to remember that what others want out of a piece of equipment, whatever it is, may be different than what I want.

Just for your information, the engineers I spoke to had no first-hand experience with the machine at all, but just the overall idea of taking a machine that produces one outcome and forcing it to produce something higher. As you just said, Jack obviously had problems with his machines early on as forecasted by those engineers. However, either he has changed what he is doing or he has found a way to, perhaps, make whatever he was doing work. I don't know and I don't care what he is doing as long as it works and makes for a wise purchase for beadmakers who make the decision to purchase his machines.

Just as an aside, you can also look at your paragraph regarding the cost of 2 M-15s and say that for an extra $300 the purchaser will get a new machine as opposed to a reconditioned one, one source to expend electricity instead of two. You can also look at it and say, well, if I want to use half the power one day, then it will cost me much less to run 1 M-15. The same engineers I spoke with before also looked at the machine I bought and suggested that at the rate I use it with proper maintenance it should last for 40 years. I don't think most of the reconditioned machines will last that long and that's the reason I made the purchase I did. Now, I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, but just that we all need to remember to look at both sides of an issue. What is right for one person may not be right for the other. At the time I purchased mine I had the funds to put into something that I believe will last me the rest of my life. The extra expense at the time didn't bother me as I was working fulltime and had the money to spend. Someone else may be in a different position and not have the funds right now to spend and they can really not care that the machine may have a shorter life-span. We all see things differently because of where we are in life at the time.

I firmly hope that the newer UO machines continue to live up to the confidence you have had in them. I sincerely hope that this more affordable alternative is as good as I have heard recently and that it will last for a period of time that makes the investment worth it. It seems at this point in time that it is doing just that.
Great points Pam and I agree with you...

I've never said one bad thing about the Regalia... haven't said it's over priced... I've just done a price comparison to other available options... if somebody needs 10 LPM at low PSI and they want to spend $1500, it's a good choice. I've heard nothing but good things about them. It's not a choice I would make. It doesn't fill my needs and even if those specs were my needs, I'd probably go with a pair of regular medical units... the power consumption is really not much at all.
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Old 2008-08-28, 1:30pm
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and since Kimberly's data has been called into the discussion, let's look at that for a moment. No, I'm not going to tear it apart. I'm going to assume it's right for the purpose of a little comparison. She has said the M-15 puts out good purity at 6 LPM... Ok, so two M-15s would be around $1200 (give or take) delivered to the US and according to her numbers, they will give you 12 LPM at @15 PSI. That is still more flow and pressure than a Regalia and you've got about $300 left over to spend on glass... or maybe a tank of gas... so even with those lower flow rates, UO is still a better deal. I know mine perform better than 6 LPM, but hey, worst case scenario... UO still makes sense.
And by the same token, many torches do not need 12 LPM at a high pressure, 9-10 LPM at a low to medium pressure is more than enough, and if you're going with using two machines, two 5 LPM reconditioned, unaltered machines will give great performance for $800 give or take and you would have about $400 to spend on glass.
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Old 2008-08-28, 4:55pm
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Ya' wanna know what is really obvious? What is really obvious is that you are trying to discredit me every chance you get. Do you have a personal issue with me?

Maybe it all started when I called you out about false claims regarding your ability to sell GTT torches. I remember pointing out the picture of the GTT Python on your website and your claim that you could sell any of the GTT torches when in fact no distributor at that time could sell the Python and you were not even a distributor. Thanks for remving the picture and the claims. Oh, hey, do you still have the GTT logo on your business card? You might want to change that, too.

Or, maybe you started to have a problem with me when a guy on the GLDG talked about how long it took to get a GTT torch from you and when it got to him, it did not have the instructional DVD in it. I let him know that you were not a GTT distributor, so that is why it took so long to get his torch (oh, and that GTT does not require advanced payment, so it was not our fault if he had any money tied up - hey, kind of like AIM kilns, huh?). I don't know what happened to his DVD. Do you have any thoughts on that, Dennis? Whatever happened to the DVD that came with the torch you sold to that guy?

I digress.

What might not be so obvious on this particular forum is that you, sir, are the one with a bad reputation in the glass world. You are the one who has been chased off of more forums for your dealings and behavior than I have ever logged on to.

I think people ought to know about your true reputation when they read you trying to tear apart mine.
I'm curious. Where do you see the connection between me selling GTT torches and you trash talking UO oxycons?

I'm equally curious about you thinking I can't sell GTT torches. GTT can decide who they designate as a distributor but can't control who buys and resells their torches. Are you suggesting there's anything you or GTT can do to prevent me from doing that? Are you willing to publicly state that you would or have instructed your GTT distributors to not sell to me?

If, as you claim, my claims to be able to supply GTT torches were false, how was it I was able to supply them? Magic? You start by calling me a liar for saying I could supply the torches, then complain that I supplied one didn't include a CD. Which is it?

Where did you get the idea I advertised GTT torches on my business card? You obviously have never seen one of my business cards. Why would you fabricate that suggestion?

.......

ETA

Although the distributor I was previously getting GTT torches from has gone out of business, I am still selling GTT torches.
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Old 2008-08-28, 8:27pm
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I'm curious. Where do you see the connection between me selling GTT torches and you trash talking UO oxycons?
First off, I do not trash talk UO machines. You might not like the data that I have presented or the first hand accound of my experience with them, but I have not embellished or exaggerated anything and I have not "talked trash."

Second, I am only suggesting that the reason you seem to try and discredit me at every chance you get may be because I called you out about some torch stuff.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong and the reason you are trying to discredit me is because you have an inventory of something that competes with what I have and you don't want anyone to listen to what I have to say because that might slow your sales down.

Quote:
I'm equally curious about you thinking I can't sell GTT torches. GTT can decide who they designate as a distributor but can't control who buys and resells their torches. Are you suggesting there's anything you or GTT can do to prevent me from doing that? Are you willing to publicly state that you would or have instructed your GTT distributors to not sell to me?
I'm suggesting no such thing. I am very aware that people buy torches and other items through distributors and then resell them - they are called "dealers."

What I mostly took issue with was the picture you took off of the GTT website and put onto yours (doesn't that violate copyright?) when you were not an authorized dealer and had no permission whatsoever to use any GTT materials. Are you claiming that you did not use a picture owned by GTT without their permission?

Quote:
If, as you claim, my claims to be able to supply GTT torches were false, how was it I was able to supply them? Magic?
I never claimed that you could not supply them. Where do you get that?

Quote:
You start by calling me a liar for saying I could supply the torches, then complain that I supplied one didn't include a CD. Which is it?
Again, I did not claim that you could not supply the torches. I claimed that you represented yourself as someone who could supply new Pythons and well, those were only available directly from GTT and only to artists. They were not sold to distributors and had you purchased one from an artist, it would not have been a new torch. You did not indicate that you were dealing in used torches.

Oh, and you never mentioned what happened to the disc. Did you just keep it for yourself thinking that it would not have been missed, or was it not there from your order and were you so unfamiliar with the product line that you did not even know that there was a disc that should have been with the torch? At any rate, did you replace the missing disc, or did you leave that for someone else to do?

[quote]Where did you get the idea I advertised GTT torches on my business card? You obviously have never seen one of my business cards. Why would you fabricate that suggestion?[?QUOTE]

Just curious, though, why would you think that I have never seen one of your business cards? ALthough you yourself have never handed one to me, that does not mean that someone else didn't.

At any rate, it's not a fabrication. Someone I trust and find to be a very reliable source told me that you had the GTT logo on your business card at one point.



Quote:
.......

ETA

Although the distributor I was previously getting GTT torches from has gone out of business, I am still selling GTT torches.
I'm sorry to hear that your previous supplier has gone out of business. Good for you for hanging in there and selling the GTTs, though. Just don't blame GTT for long wait times whenever it is really a matter of just having a hard time getting ahold of one yourself, that's all.

Keep on "selling the sizzle," Dennis.
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  #54  
Old 2008-08-28, 9:09pm
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I never claimed that you could not supply them. Where do you get that?
I called you out about false claims regarding your ability to sell GTT torches
I interpret that as you stating I was lying when I said I could sell GTT torches. My claims to be able to sell GTT torches were never false. If they were false, how was I able to supply the one you're complaining I didn't include a disc with? It appears you are still calling me a liar because I AM claiming an ability to sell them. You have always known that I could sell GTT torches so why would you claim I was lying when I said I could sell them? Do you think I'm still lying in my claim that I can sell GTT torches?

Quote:
Again, I did not claim that you could not supply the torches. I claimed that you represented yourself as someone who could supply new Pythons and well, those were only available directly from GTT and only to artists. They were not sold to distributors and had you purchased one from an artist, it would not have been a new torch. You did not indicate that you were dealing in used torches.
All the torches I sold were purchased as new from one of your distributors. Is it your claim that your distributor lied to me and falsely supplied a used torch instead of a new one? If so, he did an amazing job of repacking.

Quote:
Oh, and you never mentioned what happened to the disc.
Glad you asked. I got the torch in question from your distributor who got it from GTT. The distributor supplied no disc and when asked about it advised there was no disc with the torch. You're fond of calling people liars. Was your distributor lying?

Quote:
At any rate, it's not a fabrication. Someone I trust and find to be a very reliable source told me that you had the GTT logo on your business card at one point.
Okay now it's my turn. That is a lie. Your "reliable source" is a liar. No reference of any kind to GTT has ever appeared on any of my business cards. Claims that they did are a flat out falsehood. A lie. Are you fond of spreading unsubstantiated lies on a public forum?

Quote:
Keep on "selling the sizzle,"
I'll do that - and you can keep on spreading fabrications.
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Old 2008-08-28, 10:39pm
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All the torches I sold were purchased as new from one of your distributors. Is it your claim that your distributor lied to me and falsely supplied a used torch instead of a new one? If so, he did an amazing job of repacking.
You had a picture of a GTT Python on your website with the catchy phrase "big or small we sell them all" or something to that effect, implying that you sold new Pythons. The Python is the torch I am talking about.

Look, I could go round and round with you, especially since you tend to argue in circles and I am rather tenacious, but it is only further derailing this thread. If you would like to continue this arguement in private, be my guest.
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Old 2008-08-29, 2:29am
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And by the same token, many torches do not need 12 LPM at a high pressure, 9-10 LPM at a low to medium pressure is more than enough, and if you're going with using two machines, two 5 LPM reconditioned, unaltered machines will give great performance for $800 give or take and you would have about $400 to spend on glass.
Many mid sized torches do not run well on low pressure, especially for boro... the smaller bead torches will do OK on 8 PSI or so... but TWO m15s will do more than that... and if you only need 10 LPM at low pressure for a smaller bead torch, my point has always been to pair two medical units up and for about $600 you can run the smaller torches nicely. Thanks for backing up my suggestion to customers. This saves them nearly $900 over a Regalia. That's a lot of glass!
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Old 2008-08-29, 5:40am
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You had a picture of a GTT Python on your website with the catchy phrase "big or small we sell them all" or something to that effect, implying that you sold new Pythons. The Python is the torch I am talking about.

Look, I could go round and round with you, especially since you tend to argue in circles and I am rather tenacious, but it is only further derailing this thread. If you would like to continue this arguement in private, be my guest.
If you want to keep your accusations private, we'll do so - but if you persist in publicly calling me a liar, and publicly posting lies, it's reasonable for me to assume you prefer to discuss it publicly.

Who is your BSing "reliable source"?
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  #58  
Old 2008-08-29, 8:40am
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This might have been an informative thread for others, yet again...senseless denouncing and vituperation has taken over.

I wonder if consumers will ever get to see feedback from a strictly consumers standpoint.

I have been following the countless threads on the Oxygen Concentrators. I have been in the market for one to purchase for the last year. I am taking my time trying to decide on what I should purchase and from which vendor, I am interested in user reviews, as to help me make an informed decision. Reading threads like this has made me shy away from making a purchase from any one vendor for any particular concentrator.

When I buy any new piece of equipment or tool that is of any significant value I like to read non-biased reviews. For example - on buying a new SLR camera I read many reviews from various sources. I valued the user reviews. I never once saw the vendors offer their point of view or offer advice while reading "user review" sections. Another example - When we bought tools to renovate our house, we read reviews and made our decision based on the information of other peoples experience with those specific tools. I am sure the examples could go on.....

Do you read reviews from the manufacturers and vendors of cars when you are looking to buy one? or do you like to hear and read what other people have to say about the car without biased input???

As there is no place yet other than Forums to gain information from users of specific Oxygen concentrators and how they would review them, this is probably a good venue to start in.

Maybe someone (non-vendor specific) could make a webpage, list the oxygen concentrators out there that are in use by the lampworking community and have it enabled so that users can write reviews and rate the oxygen concentrators.

Understanding how others are using the oxygen concentrators, what torch they are using, how long they have been using the concentrator for and the reliability issue - is valuable information for everyone.
I agree with you all the way. I just want end user reviews of the products and no vendor input. I am tired of wading through the bickering and the "he said/she said" posts. So I decided that I will try to do just that.

I will design a webpage with a form for oxycon users to fill in info on thier setup; unit brand and model, age of unit, hrs, new/used, etc. When the form is submitted it will automatically update a database. I will then display the database results on another webpage for everyone to see. Perhaps the end-user information will afford people like you and me the opportunity to finally view end-user reviews of most, if not all, oxycons and make an informed choice about which one is right for them.

At any rate, I will give it a shot. Some input (from users, not vendors) about what goes on the form would be appreciated . Perhaps I should start a thread for this.
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Last edited by bbnana; 2008-08-29 at 8:42am. Reason: added info to reply
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Old 2008-08-29, 11:11am
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I for 1 don't need a oxy. gen. to last 40 years so if I can get one that will last 10-20 years for less $'s I will.
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Old 2008-08-29, 7:10pm
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oh mercy. Such a delicate subject...

I'm just going to pretend that THIS is that place for glass peeps to go and rate their set-up. I know I really wanted info to compare when I was doing my oxy con shopping, so for what it's worth I'll share:

I have a cheetah, two m-15's and propane. I torch in my garage (az heat and right now humidity too) and couldn't be happier (well, unless I had a/c!!!). I do mostly beads and have more than enough oomph to do the boro that I so dearly love. And the colors are great The units are very quiet too.

Since this thread was really about the oxy cons specifically - I ordered mine from mr. smiley and they arrived when they were supposed to, in perfect condition. No problems whatsoever. Excellent customer service.

I will also note that in my research phase, I contacted Kimberly to inquire about the Regalia. She was very helpful and kind. I've heard wonderful things about her, as well as the Regalia.

Okay, I'm done...
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