POOP? or what...

[akustik]

Hi everyone!

I recently got a minor torch, and this whole set up/ ignite the torch process terrifies me. Mostly only because I've heard about three different ways of doing it.

My main question is this. I've always read in books and such, to use the POOP acronym.

propane on first
oxygen on last
oxygen off first
propane off last

Does this change because I'm using an oxycon instead??

It's not that I don't trust the people who have told me how to do it- It's just that I've been told completely opposite ways to do it. Which REALLY confuses/scares me.



The main thing I've heard differences on is the propane regulator.

I was first told to adjust that to where I want it *every time I torch/every session*

But then, I was told that, once I get that where I want it- I should never have to touch it again. Ever.


The other question is the initial start up. I thought I was suppose to first turn on the oxycon to build up pressure, and open the oxygen valve at the torch. Then, turn the propane tank valve all the way open, then back 1/4 of a turn. Then, open the red valve at the torch, light it, turn back on the oxygen at the torch, adjust the flame to neutral, start melting.

Then for turn off: turn off both knobs at the torch, at pretty much the same time. Then turn off the oxycon. Then turn off the propane tank valve (leaving the regulator right where it was... not touching it at all). Then go back and bleed the lines, propane first, then oxygen.

I just want your opinions on your process. Just to make sure I learned it the right/common way.

So, A) Do I ever touch the regulator after I get it where I want it?
B) Do I use the POOP acronym? Or is it more like O.P.P.O?
and C) When bleeding the lines, do I need to do anything with the regulator first?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

[jamie lynne]

I do POOP. I leave my oxy knob closed, turn on my propane knob a half twist or so, ignite, then open my oxy to 4.5lmp then adjust my propane. My oxy stays at 4.5 no matter what, I only adjust my propane once lit. I've heard people say it can damage a oxycon to do it that way... but I havn't had any problems And I do leave my regulator alone. Set it and leave it alone.

[jamie lynne]

Oh and to bleed my lines I turn off my torch. go outside trun off my propane, come back in turn my propane on and ignite let it burn itself out, turn knob back off. turn off my inside valve, then go out and shut off the outside valve.

[akustik]

So, just to make sure...

The very first thing you do is turn the propane on at the actual TANK?
Then come in and turn on the concentrator?
Then turn on the oxygen at the torch,
Then turn off the oxygen at the torch?
Then turn on the propane at the torch?
Then light it,
Then quickly turn oxygen at the torch back on?


Then for bleeding the lines- I might be reading your post wrong...

You turn off the propane at the tank,
come in, turn the propane back on at the torch...
light it wait til it stops (flame goes out)
then go back out and ... how do you turn off the propane at the tank again? I thought it was already off?

I'm so confused.
I'm such an idiot.

[akustik]

Oh, and when you're talking about the start up, when you turn on the propane and light it, have you already turned your oxygen concentrator on, and the propane on outside? first?

[jamie lynne]

Ok so here is exactly how I do it I guess it is has become second nature to me so I forget steps.
before you do this make certain your knobs are turned off on your torch
1) Go out side turn on my propane tank
2) open the out side propane valve
3) open my inside propane valve
4) turn on my oxy con (I leave my dial on my oxy con alone and adjust with my knobs on my torch)
5) open my propane valve on my torch and ignite it
6) open my oxygen valve at my torch and adjust the knob while looking at my bubble meter on my oxy con I dial in 4.5lpm every time.
7) I adjust my propane to achieve the flame atmosphere I desire.
I only adjust my propane when reducing, but that is just me, doing it another way works too. that's just how I do it.

To shut down I
1) turn off my Oxy at my torch
2) turn off my propane at the torch.
3)turn off my oxy con
Then bleed the lines as I described above.

It will become second nature after a few days.

[akustik]

Thank you so much Bitty!

I really really really appreciate it.

I figured most of you have done it for so long, that you prolly don't even consciously think about it anymore.

Me- I'm terrified every time I turn ANY knob/valve/dial/anything for fear I'm doing it wrong. Thank you for taking the time and writing everything (every little thing) down for me. It's printed and in my studio now.

Thanks a million.

[clan tabby]

Hey, Manda, you've got poop all over the place! Ha!

I've always heard that you should turn on the oxycon & let it run ~10 minutes (with the O2 knob at the torch open) before lighting the torch to allow it to build up purity. I usually turn it on & let it run while I'm gathering glass, frits, making sure I have water to drink, yadda yadda, all that pre-torch stuff. Then I turn the knob off briefly while I'm turning on & lighting the propane.

I'm a newbie too, & definitely no expert, but I went through the same thing you are now when I started out, (questions, questions & more confusion & more questions) & that's what was always recommended that I do. I'm a little less confused, but still always have lots of questions!

Good luck!
Nancie

[Liastnir]

Evening Everyone,

I'm glad to have found this thread, as I was looking to get a minor torch in the next month or so. Out of curiosity, why does everyone extinguish the flame and go back to bleed the lines later? Couldn't you just shut off the oxygen at the tank/con, shut off the propane at the tank, and let the flame die on its own?

Thanks,
CJ

[clan tabby]

Lots of people have their propane tanks outside, around the corner, down the block (well, slight exaggeration), but the tank is not underfoot, & you cannot leave a live flame in a torch unattended while you go out to the propane tank to turn it off.

[akustik]

CJ- I had that exact same question!

I was going to ask- when I'm done torching, Why couldn't I just :

turn off the propane at the tank, let the flame die, and then turn the knob on the torch???

My only question then was - what to do about the oxygen during this process?

Turn off the oxygen concentrator. Then turn off the propane at the tank? Let it die, then close both knobs on the torch?

I figured I wouldn't be able to, since no one mentioned it.

[akustik]

I DO have poop all over the place!
I was afraid that wherever I did post the question would be somewhere that no one would ever see it!
Thank goodness all of you are on top of things for me!

[clan tabby]

If your propane tank IS underfoot, I can't think of a single reason why you couldn't just turn off the tank & let it bleed out. Anyone else?

[Silver Moon Lampwork]

Originally Posted by akustik

CJ- I had that exact same question!

I was going to ask- when I'm done torching, Why couldn't I just :

turn off the propane at the tank, let the flame die, and then turn the knob on the torch???

My only question then was - what to do about the oxygen during this process?

Turn off the oxygen concentrator. Then turn off the propane at the tank? Let it die, then close both knobs on the torch?

I figured I wouldn't be able to, since no one mentioned it.

Okay, you are thinking too logically! I've been doing this for 6 or 7 years now and I do remember those days when I was scared of lighting the torch. I always imagined that as soon as I lit a match I there would blow myself up. Even though I don't do it the way I was always told, I haven't blown myself up yet. You are right to be concerned though. You want to make sure you understand the 2 things you are dealing with here: propane and oxygen. An explosion or fire won't just happen unless you do something to make it happen.

So propane is the fuel, oxygen is the accelerant. Propane is heavier than air and will settle in low spots, like a basement. That's why you don't want it your house. I work in a small shed in my backyard. There is no basement and if there ever was a propane leak I could just open the door and the propane would go out. So I keep my tank in there next to my concentrator. Perhaps I'm skating on thin ice, but I have a very keen sense of smell, especially for propane. The telltale smell of propane has been added to it to alert people to it presence. I keep my propane tank and hoses in good condition and make sure all the clamps are tight. So far no problems.

So this is what I do:

1. Turn on my overhead exhaust fan.

2. I open the oxygen valve on my torch a little bit and then turn on my concentrator. I do this so that the oxy is completely backing up into the concentrator. The exhaust fan should take it out so that it isn't building up. I then dip mandrels, gather glass, etc. while the concentrator builds up some pressure.

2. Before I turn on the valve at the propane tank I always make sure that the propane knob on the torch is turned off. It's easy to forget to do that after you last bled the line. This is very important. The one thing you do not want to do is let propane build up inside of your studio and then light a match. Now I open the valve on the propane tank.

3. Next I turn off the oxygen valve at the torch. Wait a few seconds for any oxy lingering near the tip of the torch to dissipate and get taken away by your exhaust fan. Then I take a lighter (a metal one that is long, like the kind you would use to light a gas grill). With both knobs on the torch turned off, I get a flame on the lighter. I hold the flame next to the tip of the torch and just slowly turn on the propane a little bit until it ignites. Then turn off the lighter and put it away, somewhere away from the torch. If the flame at the torch is too big, I turn it down. Then I slowly open the oxygen valve to let oxygen into the flame. Sometimes I do check the concentrator and propane tank pressures, especially after the propane tank has been recently changed. So there is some adjusting at the torch and sometimes at the propane tank and the concentrator. But for the most part I don't have to do that very often.

I've seen people use wooden kitchen matches to light their torches too. Just keep the box away from the torch. I don't use those metal striker things. I think they are more dangerous because sometimes if you aren't good at getting the spark (like me) propane is flowing out of the torch while you are trying to get a spark. If it takes you too long, you have a build-up of propane in and around your work table, and when you do finally get a spark you could get a nice fireball too.

Sorry, this is getting really wordy. Here's how I shut down.

I turn off the valve at my propane tank. I was thinking like you: save steps. I let the flame die out. Then I turn off my concentrator. You could turn off the concentrator first. I do that sometimes, but then the flame is dirty and sooty and seems to take longer to die off. It doesn't really seem to matter which one I do first though. I always keep my overhead exhaust fan on until I'm completely finished shutting down.

Hope this helps. It may not be the way everybody else does it, but it works for me and I'm very safety-minded. I've been doing it for 6 or 7 years and haven't had a problem. It sounds to me like you are getting a good understanding of how things work and it's making sense to you. Eventually you will get very comfortable, but always do pay attention to what you are doing when you light the torch and shut down.

One more thing I was going to say is try develop habits. Once you find a method that works for you and is comfortable, keep doing it that way. Also if you develop consistent working habits, like always keeping your tools and glass in the same location while you're working, you will be much less likely to hurt yourself.

[Mr. Meker]

So is it bad to have the concentrator running full blast and use the torch valve to control the amount of oxygen that makes it out the torch?

[gmkcpa]

I've been using tanked propane and tanked O2 for about 15 years with no problems.
1. I never got a good explanation as to why I should bleed the lines when I'm done, so I never do. (If anyone can give me a good reason, I'm all ears).
2. I go into my garage and turn on the propane tank and then turn on the O2 tank, both all the way.
3. I sit at the torch and open up the propane valve and then quickly flick my lighter and the propane lights. I do not hold the lit lighter by the torch and then open the propane because I would get a 'bang' that scares the heck out of me. I turn the red knob and then flick my lighter.
4. After the propane is on for about 5 seconds I then slowly open the O2 valve. I then adjust the propane valve and O2 valve to the size flame I want and start working.

POOP - out of habit I use the POOP method both for the tanks and the torch, but I truly believe that the POOP method really applies only to the torch and not to the tanks. At the torch, if you turn on the O2 first you can't light it! So if then you turn on the propane you now have unlit O2 blowing the propane out of the torch, and it is damn near impossible to light that! So you turn the propane on first. When you are done, if you turn the propane off first you get a 'bang' that may scare the heck out of you, so turn the O2 off first!

Propane leaks are easy to smell, but you won't smell an O2 leak. If you have an O2 leak you can expect any iron or steel tools in your work area to start rusting. Been there, done that.