Hot Head vs propane torch

Howie · #1 2008-03-11, 3:46am

Ok, seems a bit redundant I know. I'm curious what the difference is between the Hot Head and the torches that come with the small propane/MAPP bottles. I have the torch head that screws onto the bottles now and other than possibly diameter, I don't see much difference.

Anyone ever use one with good, bad or ugly results?

Dale M. · #2 2008-03-11, 3:44pm

A "propane" torch (aka plumbers torch) will work....... But you will find it lacks the heat body one needs to work anything larger than the smallest beads.

Dale

Tanner Studios · #3 2008-03-11, 4:45pm

The main difference and most important. Is, Hot head's are design to suck air in from the back of the torch. Thus supplying more oxygen at the flame. The soldering type torches have too much of a reducing flame to work for lamp-working.
Scott

Howie · #4 2008-03-11, 7:21pm

Thanks for the answers. I gave it a shot anyhow and it caused the clear to get a bit "dirty" and it wasn't the easiest to work with. Granted, I'm BRAND new to this so I don't even know how it should work just yet.

Dale M. · #5 2008-03-11, 7:33pm

Here is a great read for a beginning lampworker....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/10237/200/

Dale

mandyjw · #6 2008-03-12, 7:25am

Yeah, what Scott said. In my opinion a hothead is the best beadmaking investment you can make. It's a great torch for beginners and masters and everything in between.

jaci · #7 2008-03-12, 8:23am

I

my hothead

Howie · #8 2008-03-12, 4:26pm

Thanks for the advice. I put the "plumbers torch" away and will just use my glass rods as chop sticks for the next 3 days until the first class. Only problem is it's not so easy to eat pizza with glass chop sticks but I'll work that out.

Dale, that journal was great. Thats good stuff to know and it reminds me of...well me with some of my past projects and hunts for parts and materials. I still have boxes of "stuff" and some of it I can use for this!

From what I've seen, the Hot Heads are about $40 or so? I had looked at a few other torches like some of the mid sized Nortel models but then I have to contend with tanks and all that and I'm not so sure the owner of the building I live in would be too keen on my chaining an oxygen and propane tank to the railing on my balcony.

The Hot Head is going to be the way to go here I think. I have a 521 cfm inline centrifugal fan and a bunch of flexible ducting to move a little air out with a window open on the opposing side as an inlet. I'm not sure if the glass gives off anything but I did play with the torch and glass in a 700 cubic foot room for about 5-10 minutes and lets just say, I won't do that again.

I seem to recall some mention of MAPP gas being preferable over propane? Is one preferable over the other with the Hot Head? We have an account with a gas supplier where I work for nitrogen, oxygen, helium, hydrogen and all that and we go through maybe 16 large (281?) tanks a week so I'm sure I can throw my order in with that and pay a little less for it due to the bulk thing, we'll see.

Dale M. · #9 2008-03-12, 7:25pm

Since MAPP gas is discontinued you may want to consider some other fuel....

This document pretty much describes the do's and don't's of hothead use....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

Quire frankly I have used both propane and MAPP and can not really tell much difference...

Dale

transluscence · #10 2008-03-13, 11:14pm

Howie, I've used a Hot Head for about ten years and I simply attach it straight onto a
4 kgm gas bottle (no hoses or any risky attachments). I don't believe that straight propane is more problematic than the MAPP mix............ most new bead makers scorch a fair few beads by letting the mandrell drift down to the 'reduction' part of the flame where there is lot of fuel gas still unburned. It is easy to blame the gas but the scorching (ie.unwanted grey metallic lustre) is usually due to inexperience and not keeping the bead up in the clean burn zone of the flame.
I also use a GTT Lynx torch with gas/oxygen fuel but because I live in a seriously remote place in the deep tropics where I can rarely get Oxygen and can't use and O2 generators don't work because of the humidity I rely on the Hot Head for about 70%
of the year. I can do every single thing on the HH that i can do on the more sophisticated torch except fast production work........i can make beads of 5mm or 50mm in diameter,cylinders up to 70mm long, detailed designs and heavily encased beads. What you can't do is work 'soft 'glass fast or work 'boro' glass at all.
So get a big tank of propane and go for it!
Helen

CelesteK · #11 2008-03-18, 7:14pm

In my limited experience, clear is not easy to melt nicely in a hothead. It seems to be a very stiff glass even when molten. I like working with very pale amber and light amber. I also really like white, pea green, periwinkle, and yellow. They all seem to be softer than clear and don't burn readily like some colors.

Howie · #12 2008-03-19, 4:35pm

Having now actually used the HotHead I can see a huge difference. I've still noticed some darkish streaks in some colors though. Not sure if it's always there for me or if I'm just noticing it on the lighter colors.

I've made a few cool looking beads, for me anyhow... Granted they're nothing like I see here but I've got 4 days under my belt so far and as long as I learn something and improve in relation to me, I'm happy.

Some colors seem to melt easier than others and trying to encase a bead has resulted in some interesting results. I saw in another thread the suggestion to use stringers so I may try that. It's going to be a real struggle to not come up with some way to run a bigger torch though. Anywhere in the flame I've tried, I can't melt a rod and roll it on the mandrel quick enough to stop the glass from sagging pretty bad.

I'm sure the Tim Taylor MORE POWER(or heat) cure isn't always the way to go but my goal is to make marbles and sculptures. I suppose I should keep practicing doing what I'm doing with what I'm using to at least understand the basics instead of making larger, more costly mistakes to learn.

artsyuno · #13 2008-03-19, 4:46pm

Dark streaks likely mean you're burning the glass. You'll find that some colors burn more quickly than others. Try working those colors farther out in the flame.

There's an alternative method for melting glass and applying it to the mandrel that you may want to try (because you don't need a big gather). Try holding the mandrel just below the flame. Melt the end of the rod and then lower the rod slowly so that the end meets the mandrel just below the flame, rolling the glass onto the mandrel while slowly spinning the mandrel below the flame. You'll need to go slowly as you're melting a little bit at a time and if the glass isn't melted enough you'll pull off your bead release. I found this to work better than the gather method when I was using a hothead.

burningneedles · #14 2008-03-21, 9:43pm

I've been using a Hot Head with MAPP. the first few months i was using a plumbers torch head, and boy, were those crappy beads (in general). Once I switched to a HH, there was a vast improvement.
I dont have much of a problem with the glass sagging when I'm wraping it on a mandrel. I work about the tip of the flame. But some colors are easier than others.

megan

ziggys · #15 2008-04-03, 11:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

Here is a great read for a beginning lampworker....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/10237/200/

Dale

Your right. That was a great read. Had a few good chuckles. Makes me wish I had written a journal when I first started the process of being able to make beads as it was the best thing that's happened to me since 2003.

I still have the bar-stool torch "table" I used when I started for lack of anything else I had handy. I think I'll take a picture of it and the stove top heat reflector I used for a surface with my old HH. Maybe then I'll be able to let go of that bar-stool.

Thanks for an enjoyable read.