How to connect Mega Minor to 1lb gas canister - I need a link bc Panama

GabiLoraine · #1 2023-10-20, 1:09pm

ETA: ok I'm an idiot- I'm reading about the "steak saver" which is easy enough to just order on Amazon... will that work with the black hose pictured below?

read my whole idiotic original question below...
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Hi! This has been asked hundreds of times and I'm reading through answers but not quite finding what I need.

I've gone to 8 places locally and not found the correct fitting so I need an online solution. Like a link, please.

I need to hook up a Nortel Mega Minor with flashback arrestors to 1lb gas canisters.

I've now seen photos of what that looks like on the gas canister side (this thread), which no such hose exists here. Where can I buy it?

This is what is on the other side of the black hose, which doesn't work for the smaller canisters:

Thank you soooo much if you can help!!!!!

GabiLoraine · #2 2023-10-20, 1:27pm

steak saver reviews are terrifying. please send help.

kevingreenbmx · #3 2023-10-20, 7:19pm

Why would you want to use a 1# propane tank? it will only last for like an hour, won't it?

If that's really what you want to do, I believe what you need is a pair of CGA-601 and CGA-600 regulators to hook up to the disposable 1lb. cylinders.

https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...oxygen-249499b

https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...oxygen-249499b

those have "b" fittings (actually called CGA 022 and CGA 023 fittings) on their outlets, which are the standard welding hose fittings like connect at your torch and flashbacks.

GabiLoraine · #4 2023-10-20, 8:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingreenbmx

Why would you want to use a 1# propane tank? it will only last for like an hour, won't it?

If that's really what you want to do, I believe what you need is a pair of CGA-601 and CGA-600 regulators to hook up to the disposable 1lb. cylinders.

https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...oxygen-249499b

https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...oxygen-249499b

those have "b" fittings (actually called CGA 022 and CGA 023 fittings) on their outlets, which are the standard welding hose fittings like connect at your torch and flashbacks.

Hi! Thank you so much for your response!

You linked the same regulator twice. Why do I need two different ones?

kevingreenbmx · #5 2023-10-21, 6:22pm

I meant to link to the Oxygen one and the Fuel one:

https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...el-gas-249500b

I'm unclear on if you are trying to run on disposable fuel and oxygen tanks or just fuel.

rcktscientist · #6 2023-10-23, 8:23am

Looks like you'd be better off going with a 20lb propane tank. The only downside to that tank size is that it must be kept outside and plumbed in. Not too complex or expensive but a challenge for some. Something to consider since the Minor will run about an hour on that little tank. It will also make the tank cold which will drop the pressure so many people keep it in a water bath to reduce that pressure drop.

If you don't like the 20lb tank idea I believe Amazon sells 20lb-to-1lb propane adapters that screw onto the 1lb tank and into the green end of the hose you show. You could go that route.

Good luck!

GabiLoraine · #7 2023-10-23, 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcktscientist

Looks like you'd be better off going with a 20lb propane tank. The only downside to that tank size is that it must be kept outside and plumbed in. Not too complex or expensive but a challenge for some. Something to consider since the Minor will run about an hour on that little tank. It will also make the tank cold which will drop the pressure so many people keep it in a water bath to reduce that pressure drop.

If you don't like the 20lb tank idea I believe Amazon sells 20lb-to-1lb propane adapters that screw onto the 1lb tank and into the green end of the hose you show. You could go that route.

Good luck!

Yes, I'm asking for help with setting up a 1lb canister because I can no longer work with a bigger tank.

GabiLoraine · #8 2023-10-23, 10:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingreenbmx

I meant to link to the Oxygen one and the Fuel one:

https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...el-gas-249500b

I'm unclear on if you are trying to run on disposable fuel and oxygen tanks or just fuel.

oh I have an Oxycon now! my problem right now is the little canisters...

KJohn · #9 2023-10-24, 5:53pm

Hi there, glad you are melting again.

It's a good question, but I'm confused why you need flashback arrestors with that type of torch, surface mix as opposed to a pre-mix.

In any case, it won't work with an oxycon at all. It will restrict the flow too much, as the oxycon is MUCH lower pressure than tanked.

And that looks to me like a BBQ tank in the pic, but you say it's the little ones? As far as I know, you would need a regulator for the propane, or it will be very difficult to work with. I don't know if they can be attached to the little tanks. It might be better to work with a hot head until you can get a better fuel source. You don't need any of that for the hothead. And they work very well with the smaller tanks.

Perhaps you could post on FB tips & techniques as well, as more would see it there?

Although neat thing about that torch you have, it does work well with natural gas. Just saying it might be a possible thing to do as well, if you can't have the larger BBQ tank in the house or available. Where are you now?

Good luck, let us know how it goes

kevingreenbmx · #10 2023-10-25, 6:06am

The fittings I linked above are regulators made for those small disposable tanks.

Nortel says the Mega Minor is suitable for use with concentrators, but requires two for optimal performance: https://www.nortelglass.com/mega-minor-burner/

note that not all concentrators are equal, different models have different flow capacity, and different output pressure. Flow can range from 2 to 10 LPM (likely need at least 10 for that torch) and pressure can range from under 5 PSI to up to 20 PSI (higher will perform better on any glass torch).

KJohn · #11 2023-10-25, 8:44am

yes the flashback arrestors are not used on the oxycon, my only comment on that.

for the torch, you need a propane regulator as well, the arrestors would not regulate the pressure for that type of torch. It's why a hot head would be the bettter thing all around. You can do a LOT with a hot head!

GabiLoraine · #12 2023-10-30, 8:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJohn

I'm confused why you need flashback arrestors with that type of torch, surface mix as opposed to a pre-mix.

I honestly don't remember why I have them. I was told they were necessary at the time, so I put them on. ...like 10-ish years ago, yikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJohn

In any case, it won't work with an oxycon at all. It will restrict the flow too much, as the oxycon is MUCH lower pressure than tanked.

ok that's good to know... I will remove the oxygen one then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJohn

And that looks to me like a BBQ tank in the pic, but you say it's the little ones? As far as I know, you would need a regulator for the propane, or it will be very difficult to work with. I don't know if they can be attached to the little tanks. It might be better to work with a hot head until you can get a better fuel source. You don't need any of that for the hothead. And they work very well with the smaller tanks.

Please read this in the context of me being very frustrated with my situation, but grateful for your time and insight:
Yes as I said, that's my old setup. I can no longer work with a BBQ tank.
Downgrading back to the HH after working with this torch for so long and investing in a brand new oxycon, sounds like a nightmare.
I won't be able to "get a better fuel source" other than going back to the BBQ tanks and break the law and have to sneak around my neighbors. Which is obviously my plan B. HH is plan ... Z.
So let's stay on the topic of setting up 1lb canisters please on the Mega Minor... which we all know is inconvenient and costly but not far-fetched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJohn

for the torch, you need a propane regulator as well, the arrestors would not regulate the pressure for that type of torch.

What is the regulator that is used on a 1lb canister?

Again thank you so much for your time. The Facebook format and group moderator is... not my fav, I'm hoping to get clearer answers here? idk... I'll go over there when I give up haha

GabiLoraine · #13 2023-10-30, 9:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingreenbmx

The fittings I linked above are regulators made for those small disposable tanks.

ok so I'm seeing two options...

hook up a regular (red) gas hose to the "Smith Little Torch Propane Regulator 249-500B", which is what you sent, for about $100, and I will need a new hose too because my green one is green and old (cracking)

or

connect the "steak saver", as recommended here, to my existing black hose, which I've found a bunch on Amazon for $8-$15, but the reviews are all terrifying...

But also of course the advantage of the adapter you sent is that it is a regulator and the other one is not... just to understand... this regulator will help me with what... like additional to the knob on the actual torch... why would I want to decrease the full pressure of a tiny canister?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingreenbmx

Nortel says the Mega Minor is suitable for use with concentrators, but requires two for optimal performance: https://www.nortelglass.com/mega-minor-burner/

note that not all concentrators are equal, different models have different flow capacity, and different output pressure. Flow can range from 2 to 10 LPM (likely need at least 10 for that torch) and pressure can range from under 5 PSI to up to 20 PSI (higher will perform better on any glass torch).

The one I bought is supposed to be 5LPM, they didn't have the 10 ones when I bought it but I've been told I can try it and when I grow frustrated, I can upgrade to 10 by hooking up another 5? ::laughing in frustration::

kevingreenbmx · #14 2023-10-31, 5:34am

Regulators are absolutely necessary. NEVER hook up a soft fuel line to a tank directly without a regulator to drop the pressure safely and controllably. Your torch is designed to have an inlet pressure of something like 5-10 PSI. The propane tanks are filled with liquid propane that evaporates and maintains a pressure in the tank of somewhere between 100 and 350 PSI. Your torch flame chemistry will be all over the place without a regulator, on top of just being unsafe. DO NOT use that "steak saver" adaptor to run a torch. it is for refilling bottles, and even for that use is questionable.

The advice above that flashbacks are unnecessary for surface mix torches is also not great advice. While it's true that a surface mix torch in good condition will not pose a significant risk of flashback in normal operation, they are necessary because torches can, and do, degrade over time, and internal leaks can develop which allow the fuel and oxygen to mix internally and backflow. That said, if using an oxygen concentrator without a holding tank, you don't need one on the oxygen line. The one to protect your fuel tank is still necessary though.

yes, your 5lpm concentrator should allow you to work with a low flame. Yes, you can hook up another concentrator (of any capacity, as long as the output pressure is the same) at a later time to get more oxygen flow. All it takes is a Y fitting and some check valves to prevent backflow.

rcktscientist · #15 2023-10-31, 10:51am

Your best approach might be a 0-30psi LP regulator (for a grill and similar to your steak saver BUT NOT THE SAME) and a propane refill adapter. This will allow you to safely connect the 1lb propane bottle to a regulator. Then you just need to source brass fittings to make the torch/hose connection work if you don't already have a solution.

The oxycon gets plumbed straight in and should be run around 4lpm for max purity. Turn down the flow at the torch but never shut it off completely to avoid alarms or damage.

kevingreenbmx · #16 2023-10-31, 11:36am

The little torch CGA600 regulator I posted is the correct answer here. Regulators normally cost $100+, they cannot be made with reliable quality for less than that. Just look at what mountain glass has for sale: https://www.mountainglass.com/tools-...ies/regulators

If you look around, you can find those CGA600 little torch regulators for as low as half retail on places like ebay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/363003913795). Note they will be lower quality knock-offs, but it's a better idea than trying to mix fittings together in ways they were never intended to be used.

If you absolutely feel you MUST use an adaptor from the CGA-600 to CGA-510 or QCC for use with a regulator you already have, make sure it is this type of adaptor, that has a valve to shut off flow: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363060784739 (link is for an oxygen one, not immediately seeing a propane one, which should reinforce why I'm saying this is a bad idea) (edit: found this on: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386175006673 - note that it's a hacked together mess, do not recommend)

the safety issue with the "steak saver" or "flame king" type adaptors is that they have no provision for shutting off flow from the 1 lb. bottle if the regulator is disconnected, but the adaptor remains on the bottle. So if you are going to take everything apart, and you accidentally pull the regulator thread loose before pulling the adaptor off the bottle, the bottle will empty all it's contents into the air around you, unchecked. this is a MASSIVE fire/explosion risk.

please, do the safe thing, and spend a little extra money on the appropriate equipment for your use case: the CGA600 regulator.

Lorraine Chandler · #17 2023-11-01, 12:10am

I used the two regulators they suggest at Mountain Glass for the Mega torch. Here is a quote from that link page: "compatibility with any grill-sized or larger propane tank makes it ideal for home studios."

CGA600 regulator.https://www.mountainglass.com/Single...lator-National

I also found a small under 12 inch tall and 9 inch wide refillable Benzomatic propane tank to use in my small studio, much more managable. Lasts longer than the 1 pound bottles and no canisters to throw out. I found a nice gentleman at a local RV park to refill it for me or the local gas station that does refills.

Hope this helps. This system worked great for me, and be sure to check with leak test fluid every time. PS I hated messing with the flash back arrestors.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Worthington...e-Tank/3089591

Agree with above post, this is your safest option.

GabiLoraine · #18 2023-11-01, 9:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingreenbmx

Regulators are absolutely necessary. NEVER hook up a soft fuel line to a tank directly without a regulator to drop the pressure safely and controllably. Your torch is designed to have an inlet pressure of something like 5-10 PSI. The propane tanks are filled with liquid propane that evaporates and maintains a pressure in the tank of somewhere between 100 and 350 PSI. Your torch flame chemistry will be all over the place without a regulator, on top of just being unsafe. DO NOT use that "steak saver" adaptor to run a torch. it is for refilling bottles, and even for that use is questionable.

The advice above that flashbacks are unnecessary for surface mix torches is also not great advice. While it's true that a surface mix torch in good condition will not pose a significant risk of flashback in normal operation, they are necessary because torches can, and do, degrade over time, and internal leaks can develop which allow the fuel and oxygen to mix internally and backflow. That said, if using an oxygen concentrator without a holding tank, you don't need one on the oxygen line. The one to protect your fuel tank is still necessary though.

yes, your 5lpm concentrator should allow you to work with a low flame. Yes, you can hook up another concentrator (of any capacity, as long as the output pressure is the same) at a later time to get more oxygen flow. All it takes is a Y fitting and some check valves to prevent backflow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingreenbmx

The little torch CGA600 regulator I posted is the correct answer here. Regulators normally cost $100+, they cannot be made with reliable quality for less than that. Just look at what mountain glass has for sale: https://www.mountainglass.com/tools-...ies/regulators

If you look around, you can find those CGA600 little torch regulators for as low as half retail on places like ebay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/363003913795). Note they will be lower quality knock-offs, but it's a better idea than trying to mix fittings together in ways they were never intended to be used.

If you absolutely feel you MUST use an adaptor from the CGA-600 to CGA-510 or QCC for use with a regulator you already have, make sure it is this type of adaptor, that has a valve to shut off flow: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363060784739 (link is for an oxygen one, not immediately seeing a propane one, which should reinforce why I'm saying this is a bad idea) (edit: found this on: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386175006673 - note that it's a hacked together mess, do not recommend)

the safety issue with the "steak saver" or "flame king" type adaptors is that they have no provision for shutting off flow from the 1 lb. bottle if the regulator is disconnected, but the adaptor remains on the bottle. So if you are going to take everything apart, and you accidentally pull the regulator thread loose before pulling the adaptor off the bottle, the bottle will empty all it's contents into the air around you, unchecked. this is a MASSIVE fire/explosion risk.

please, do the safe thing, and spend a little extra money on the appropriate equipment for your use case: the CGA600 regulator.

OK that is A LOT of information that you have no idea how much I appreciate and also your patience with me and the respectful way you are educating me.

Ok so the oxygen arrestor will go but the gas one will stay, as it should. Good note on not turning the oxygen knob all the way off when using the oxycon, I did not know that.

I'm so glad for the explanation about the steak saver, I wonder why Dale recommended that???

The Mountain Glass link is just for me to have perspective on pricing, right? These regulators would not fit on 1lb canisters, would they?

I will get the CGA600 regulator.

KJohn · #19 2023-11-01, 9:30am

Good luck!

kevingreenbmx · #20 2023-11-01, 1:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabiLoraine

The Mountain Glass link is just for me to have perspective on pricing, right? These regulators would not fit on 1lb canisters, would they?

I will get the CGA600 regulator.

Correct, just for reference.

good choice, It will get the job done for you. 👍

evelyn123 · #21 2024-01-24, 6:11am

It appears opting for a 20lb propane tank might be a better choice for your needs. While it requires outdoor storage and plumbing, it provides a longer runtime for your Minor. Keep in mind the tank might get cold, affecting pressure, so some users use a water bath to mitigate this. Alternatively, consider a 20lb-to-1lb propane adapter available on Amazon, connecting to the hose you've shown. Best of luck!

echeveria · #22 2024-01-24, 6:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by evelyn123

It appears opting for a 20lb propane tank might be a better choice for your needs. While it requires outdoor storage and plumbing, it provides a longer runtime for your Minor. Keep in mind the tank might get cold, affecting pressure, so some users use a water bath to mitigate this. Alternatively, consider a 20lb-to-1lb propane adapter available on Amazon, connecting to the hose you've shown. Best of luck!

She has stated she can no longer use them, so… her questions are specific to her needs.