HELP Oxygen Concentrator

SoulMastaDef · #1 2014-09-18, 5:31pm

hey guys, this is my first post on lampworkect. been having alot of issues with my 122 (cu ft) oxygen tank, i feel like im not getting all that i am out of it. it only lasts maybe 8-10 hours, and i have to replace it basically twice or more a week. im not shure if i have a leak or if oxygen really goes that fast, because i have sprayed and checked for bubbles and theres none. my only other option now seems to be to get a oxy concentrator because i cannot afford the oxygen tank refills. im wondering if anyone knows if you can hook up your oxygen concentrator to the oxygen tank, so when its full you can use it just as you would normaly and have a second one being filled while your first one is in use. iv only been melting for about 2 months now and tooken a few classes. but i figure i will be doing this a long time and its worth it for me to purchase one. what do you guys think? any info or thoughts on it would be greatly appreciated

Mary K · #2 2014-09-18, 7:42pm

What torch are you running?

Otter's Flame · #3 2014-09-18, 10:16pm

As Mary Xk asked, what torch are you running and how much work are you doing. When I was using tanked O2 I could run through 6 tanks or more a week without a problem. Even when I was running a smaller torch I could easily burn through that much. In production mode on a small torch I could run through a tank per day, maybe day and a half. So I am guessing you don't have a leak.

I used to run an Oxy concentrator and a tank set up. I had it set up with the tank and the concentrator on a "Y" and then a feed to my torch. I used a one way valve so the O2 would not back fill through my concentrator. I started using a one way valve after killing a concentrator. Depending on your torch, if you have a four post torch, you can run your inner flame on the concentrator.

Ultimately, you may want to consider liquid oxygen. I sat down and crunched numbers and it really was a LOT cheaper to use liquid O2. I know it seems expensive at first but basically I am getting a so much more oxygen for the price that it would be insane for me to go back to tanked O2.

Good luck.

Alaska · #4 2014-09-19, 1:44am

As stated above, use tanked on the outer and a concentrator or two on the inner with a foot peddle. Keep in mind, that tanked will have a higher percent purity. A concentrator will vary depending on the LPM setting. Output purity is in the range of 90% to 95% purity depending on concentrator. Many machines are 5 PSI with some at 10 PSI output pressure if output pressure is of concern.

There are home fill systems that use concentrators to fill a "K" tank. However, the purity will be the same as a concentrator. Some fill to 1500 PSI. Figure a few days to fill a tank.

Dragonharper · #5 2014-09-19, 3:24am

Knowing what torch you have AND the type of work you is important i figuring out your issue. I agree with Otter's Flame, it doesn't sound like a leak. If I use my Bravo and keep to small items, marbles under 1.25" and small heart pendants I can get 10-12 hours out of a 125 CuFt tank. If I have to use the outer fire alot it drops down to 6-8 hours. If I use my Champion (both torches are by Bethelehem) I can drain a 125 Cu ft tank in about 4 hours. If you leased your tank you should be able to go to a larger tank for the cost of the oxy fill. If you bought them you are stuck. I just leased a 250 CuFt tank for $75 and $27 to fill, it costs $25 to swap out my 125's. I'm serioulsy considering moving to 330 CuFt tanks, and leasing a second tank. This is not a cheap hobby. It looks to me that you are in the ballpark for consumption. If you are working a lot of boro color your oxy usage will increase as you need an oxidizing flame to keep the color/COE true.

LarryC · #6 2014-09-19, 7:29am

I dont count hours because it doesnt make sense to estimate that way. I can estimate by the work made though as consumption will vary based on the size, complexity, and the colors used. I get about three 2.3" marbles out of a T size (330).

SoulMastaDef · #7 2014-09-19, 7:24pm

i am using a red max by nortel but mostly only using the top flame not so much the bottom. iv only been making marbles and pendants, tried messing around with tubing a little bit. nothing bigger than 1"1/4. for colours its mostly china white, eclipse, dragons eye, amazon night, and triple passion. also iv noticed that when i turn my oxy and propane on and dont turn my knobs at the torch. the propane will stay the same on the regulator but the oxy has dropped. so seeing that tells me i must have a leak? only place i havent checked for a leak is on my torch. besides that iv checked every connection point. but ill have to wait till i get a new tank of o2 before i test that. thanks for all your responses to this. i appreciate all the help!

ps. i dont count the hours just an estimate, but i havent made very much maybe 20 pendants/marbles all together and 2 pipes. ran threw about 6-8 oxy tanks and changed my propane once! again thanks for all the help everyone!

SoulMastaDef · #8 2014-09-19, 7:26pm

Nortel Red Max

Dragonharper · #9 2014-09-20, 7:11am

For that torch I'd say your oxy comsumption is good. The propany regulator (high pressure gauge) will always read the same pressure (it will vary depending on temperature) until your propane is almost gone. Propane is a liquid, at tank pressure, hence the abbreviation LPG for Liquified Propane Gas. It takes 5 oxygen molecules (O2) , that's 10 oxygen atoms, to fully combust one propane molecule, more if you run an oxidizing flame. One 20 pound propane tank contains 750 cubic feet of propane, doing the math I'd say, again, you are right on track.

My first torch was/is a Nortel Red Rocket, it consumed more oxy thay the Red Max but in the same ball park. My Bethlehem Bravo is much more efficient, the Bethlehem Champion is to, but it has a bigger flame so uses more.

Not much more I can say, I don't think you have an oxy leak. If you want to be sure mix up a drop of dis detergent in a cup of water, swab or brush it on your connections and look for bubbles. If you have bubbles tighten that connection. Do not use teflon tape, the connections are brass on brass and designed to seal without aide.

mightymike · #10 2014-09-20, 4:00pm

sorry to say i to would have to agree that not to off base (red max dose like it oxygen). i use k tanks which are twice as big in cu.ft. of O2 as your tank and use about three tanks of O2 to one propane.
that being said torch valves can leak or more likely get debris in them from dirt line or using tape on brass to brass joint that you shouldn't or regulators can get a diaphragm leak.
one thing you could do the next time your on the torch when you take a potty break turn your torch off, leave the line pressurize and turn off the tanks. The needles on your regulator should hold there own for 15 - 20 minute break both high and low pressure readings if the high pressure drop quickly then you may have a problem.

the second part of your question about oxygen concentrator. they can work good with low pressure low volume torches. and your looking at big buck for one big enough to run a red max and i would question if it would run at 100% of what it dose on tanked O2 without a bank of them.
you didn't say if you have a minor or a pre-mix smaller torch but with a little work on the pluming you could run the small torch on one of the smaller oxygen concentrator and your big flame on tanked O2.

But anyway you look at it oxygen is a big part of the ongoing cost of lampworking.

other choice you can look at liqiud O2, low pressure bank system, or homefill set-up all have ther pluses and minuses.

SoulMastaDef · #11 2014-09-23, 11:01am

Thanks for all the help everyone. i really do appreciate it soo much and love the community on this website. i found the problem and there was a leak in my oxy flashback arrestor didnt see it before becuase i was spraying to much i guess. DragonHarper's tip on using a cotton swab was alot better. becuase i seen the bubbles! now i just have to replace it because i tightened and it still has bubbles so i must have a defective flashback. i bought off ABR imagery...so no return grr. oh well thanks again soo much everyone!!!

SoulMastaDef · #12 2014-09-23, 11:02am

cotton swab tip worked! thanks a bunch

mwest · #13 2014-09-23, 5:11pm

I have a Homefill setup with a 10L 02 machine with 11553 hrs and a Compressor with on 9 hrs. all you would need is a whip to start filling your own tanks.
This setup will provide many hours of use.
Will sell and ship for $800. contact me at mwest715@hotmail.com if interested or have questions.

Mary K · #14 2014-09-25, 5:53am

mwest you have 1 post? We don't know who you are, do you have anyone who can vouch for you here?
SoulMasta ABR should replace that bad flashback, did you call and talk to Dave? They have always replaced anything defective for me. Talk to Dave, he is very reasonable.

SoulMastaDef · #15 2014-09-25, 7:26am

yes i did actually and he asked for my address and what not but did not confirm if i was getting a new one or not lol. but heres hoping. im just gunna go my local welding shop and get one in the mean time so im not wasteing precious glass melting time!! THANKS AGAIN

SoulMastaDef · #16 2014-09-25, 7:31am

quick question?? can i use my mega minor on top of my redmax without a flashback arrestor at my oxygen tank? just dont wanna spend extra $$ on another one if i dont have too.

Mary K · #17 2014-09-25, 8:11pm

http://www.glasstorchtech.com/flashbackarrestorset.html
This should answer your question.

khan · #18 2014-09-26, 12:57pm

I have done business with Mwest...he delivered everything he said he would
i know him from The Melting Pot..

Khan

Mary K · #19 2014-09-26, 7:42pm

Thanks Kahn, good to know. When someone has only 1 post and they are selling something it always makes me suspicious.

deb tarry · #20 2014-10-02, 8:16am

Mwest is more active on Melting Pot.

istandalone24/7 · #21 2014-10-02, 9:21am

mwest is good people

PureHydrogen · #22 2014-10-06, 1:25am

Examine the threads of the flashback arrestor to see if you can find visible damage. The threads are likely repairable with a die (for male fittings) or a tap (for female fittings). Over torquing the fitting could also damage threads, especially with brass being a soft metal.. Though it is brass on brass so it should be less likely to damage threads compared to lets say brass on stainless steel threads. I'm sure you've already replaced the arrestor, but just in case you want to try and save it

FYREMAN · #23 2014-10-07, 12:27pm

Another vouch for MWEST. I purchased a homefill from him and it was a very smooth transaction.

SoulMastaDef · #24 2014-10-21, 9:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwest

I have a Homefill setup with a 10L 02 machine with 11553 hrs and a Compressor with on 9 hrs. all you would need is a whip to start filling your own tanks.
This setup will provide many hours of use.
Will sell and ship for $800. contact me at mwest715@hotmail.com if interested or have questions.

i am interested, i emailed you. Thanks