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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2007-08-23, 8:04am
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Default Frit turning yucky on Hot Head

If I ever really nail lampworking on a HH, then if I ever get a dual fuel torch it should be a breeze!

Lately my frit has been turning that yucky pewter color. I put the frit on the base, melt it in and that part is fine. But if I press the bead or use the marver, the frit goes yucky. If I take the bead out of the flame and then put it back in (like after pressing or marvering) is when I get that dull metal look. I can sometimes heat the bead to glowing and make that yuck go away, but not always, and I'll sometimes lose the shape of the bead.

So I'm wondering if anyone has any tips to help me avoid this happening. I love using frit but lately it's been frustrating.

Cheryl
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Old 2007-08-23, 8:10am
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Check the head of your torch and make sure no little pieces of glass have popped into there . Causing a reduction
This is just a guess, I only know my colors tend to look weird when this happens to me .
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  #3  
Old 2007-08-23, 8:11am
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It's reducing. Hold the bead way out in the end of the flame and see if it happens. There's more oxygen out there.

As far as the press, the reason it goes yucky after pressing is because it's cooling in the press so quickly. That plus the HH environment. The only way to fix that is to SLIGHTLY and CAREFULLY heat up the press. However, I don't think I'd have the guts to do this if I was a newbie. Sticking brass in the flame is risky and i don't want you to ruin. But, if you're careful and just warm it up in the edges, you'll be fine.
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  #4  
Old 2007-08-23, 11:13am
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Actually, I don't have any brass presses. I have a Tapley lentil tong, and I think it's stainless steel. The "press" I use most often is a pair of Martha Stewart ice tongs! They are slightly concave and make a nice tab shape.

I'll try your suggestion of working the bead far out in the flame and let you know what happens. Thanks!

Cheryl
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Old 2007-08-23, 4:09pm
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you're too close to the flame--move baaack....waaaay back! (it's the only way to keep the frit "not metallic" with a hothead!)
or....encase it....
or....use Gail's 104 COE frits ( www.ggglass.com )--most of them *aren't* reduction, so you won't get the shiny effect!
~luna
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Old 2007-08-24, 6:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylsart View Post
Actually, I don't have any brass presses. I have a Tapley lentil tong, and I think it's stainless steel. The "press" I use most often is a pair of Martha Stewart ice tongs! They are slightly concave and make a nice tab shape.

I'll try your suggestion of working the bead far out in the flame and let you know what happens. Thanks!

Cheryl
Well, it doesn't have to be brass. The point it that it's a cold tool. It also happens with graphite marvers that are cool. (this is why people complain about their black pitting after they use a marver or a press on it - you need to pre-heat the marver and then the black won't pit). If you're using stainless though, there's a much greater chance of the glass sticking a bit if you pre-heat it. If I were you I'd still give it a shot though. Just pre-heat your tools gently... just a little bit and see what happens.

You know, when I was on a HH I never had this problem, or a lot of other ones I see people posting about. I'm on a mini cc and when I melt frit I still hold the bead way out because it burns so easily due to the fact that it's just tiny bits of glass. Tiny bits pick up heat MUCH faster than a bead simply b/c there's less glass. Take luna's advice and move way way back too. I can see from some of your beads that you're still too close to the head of the torch.

Good luck!!!
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Last edited by Peach Blossom Beads; 2007-08-24 at 6:13am.
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  #7  
Old 2007-08-24, 6:25am
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Don't get your Tapley tongs "too" hot--you'll burn the heck out of your hand....and don't use your thumb to "try & make the bead press better"
(don't ask me how I know this.....)
I'm sooooo glad I have a brass press now....I PIF'd my tapleys with a "how to use warning"!!!

I've found 99% of the issues that people seem to have with hotheads/glass are THE GLASS IS TOO CLOSE TO THE TORCH HEAD.
It's a SLOW torch. It teaches you patience. Think of it as meditation, zen, just staring into the flame & get that glass OUT of the sooty area, away from the part of the flame that "fries" the glass & out into the nice warm "slow heat"....

I've got an older torch (love it) so it's adjustable (I've heard the newer ones aren't?) & I actually turn it *down* so it's even SLOWER!! The less I rush the glass, the less apt I am to get soot, reduction, ick, or even to have the bead break when it's in the crock pot!

Dunno if that helps at all or not....
~luna
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  #8  
Old 2007-08-24, 11:36am
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I think you are right about getting the glass too close to the torch. I do tend to get impatient with the slow melt time. I'll work further out and take my time and let you know if it helps. Thanks for all your input!

Cheryl

ps: Tara, which beads of mine tipped you off that I'm too close to the flame?
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  #9  
Old 2007-08-25, 5:45am
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Cheryl--do you have *safety* glasses? You know, the cheap at the hardware store kind? (like, $5 or so?). If you do, try taking OFF your Didys & putting ON the safety glasses (yes, it's ok on a hothead--NOT on a bigger torch. Even Mike @ Auralens says so.) for a bead or two. Watch where the sodaflare is--you can figure out *where* the bead needs to be in the flame by the sodaflare--anywhere you're getting sodaflare off the bead, it's "hot enough" for the bead/glass to be melting!--that's how I was torching outside in full sun when I couldn't SEE my flame--I was going by when the glass would "flare"--and it's how I learned just how far OUT away from the torch my glass really could/should be to keep it from getting "icky".
It's kind of fun--you can even do it with just a few spacers & then go back to your didys...I'd do it with a few frit beads though--to see how far out you CAN melt that frit on--melt/make the bead a little closer (bigger flare) then put your frit on & melt it down further out (little flare--as soon as you see it--that's about where you want to be--not much more in than that!)
I found it really helpful to "know" where the bead belonged in the flame by what it was actually doing to the glass....so that might help you too if you're having issues with frying the heck out of stuff!
~luna
(BUT DO WEAR SAFETY GLASSES! You don't want flying bits of glass in your eyes!!!)
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  #10  
Old 2007-08-25, 7:51am
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Hi Cheryl!

When I was on my hothead, I had the same problem with frit and a lot of the reichenbach cane colors reducing after I pressed them. I never could figure out how to get it to stop. It was soooooo frustrating!!! It didn't matter where in the flame I put the bead after I pressed it. Actually, I think all I had to do was SHOW the bead the flame after pressing and it turned a nasty greyish color. It drove me crazy! It seems that the colors I had the most trouble with were anything that was in the brown range... or even remotely brown...or even thought maybe it could be brown.

I finally fixed the problem by upgrading to a mini cc. I love it!

If you find out a fix for the reducing problem on the hothead, I would sure love to know the secret. Like I said, that totally drove me nuts!!!!

PS - I think your beads are beautiful!
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  #11  
Old 2007-08-25, 10:32am
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I don't know the secret... but i don't have this problem.... can't you get rid of the reduction at the surface with coke after the fact?? (i have never tried this)
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Last edited by jaci; 2011-04-17 at 8:11pm.
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  #12  
Old 2007-08-25, 11:35am
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How long have you had this HH? I used mine for about 1 and 1/2 years and I had to get a new one. It suddently just kept reducing everything no matter what I did. I tried to clean it myself and it never worked right after that. Just FYI. I use bulk propylene not propane. I think those with bulk propane get more burning and muck than with propylene, unfortunately, atho I could be wrong. I tried propane once and my beads looked disgusting, very grey and dirty. I'm assuiming you would be using propylene if you could... so I don't mean to knock your propane use, just giving you some ideas. Maybe use one of the irritating small yellow cans of MAPP and see if the frit does the same thing for you???

I just know when working with reduction frit I have to work WAY cool with a small flame, and far out in the flame. I wait a few seconds before I marver it, and then I put it gently back into the flame far away from the torch. If any frit did go grey or silver or mucky when I marvered, usually I can get the muck to go away in the flame.

Good luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylsart View Post
I think you are right about getting the glass too close to the torch. I do tend to get impatient with the slow melt time. I'll work further out and take my time and let you know if it helps. Thanks for all your input!

Cheryl

ps: Tara, which beads of mine tipped you off that I'm too close to the flame?
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Old 2007-08-25, 3:48pm
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I'm on bulk propane...and so is Nikki the Sheep Goddess & we all know what a frit *freak* she is ...(don't know about the other hothead users out there....)
I'm not 100% sure, but I think Kay's test frit beads are made with bulk propane as well--she's ListenUp here--running the frit exchange? I know all her frit tests are done on the hothead!
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  #14  
Old 2007-08-26, 12:46pm
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Bulk propane - I've been using it for over 4 years and other than 1 tank that made my torch spit fire (in a BAD way) I've had no problems. My beads turn out ok...

Not only do people get the bead too close to the torch head, they turn it up too high - start lower and see if that helps. I light it, then turn it up to where it isn't sputtering at the top of the torch head, and go from there. If I'm using sensitive colors like Rubino, I use very low heat, but I can turn it up for colors that like abuse, like dark ivory.
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Old 2007-08-26, 1:32pm
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I moved the bead higher in the flame today and I don't think I got any grey yuck, as far as I could tell before I stuck them in the vermiculite.

I try to turn my flame down as low as I can for regular work and even lower when I'm applying stringer. Sometimes I get it so low it goes out! I think it was that I had the bead too close to the torch. Like I said, I get impatient.

Thanks for all your advice. I won't be upgrading my torch until I get my own place, which is not for another 3 years, if I follow my plan.

Cheryl
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