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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2017-10-23, 1:14pm
Sese Sese is offline
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Default bottle glass frit - firing schedule

Hi all!

I am new to glasswork(lampwork, fusing glass).
I try to use the bottle glass to make beads.
From the lampworking, I got nice beads with using bottle glass, but I am still struggling with bottle frit casting.

I made frits from bottle glass and tested them on the molds with the several firing schedules, but all failed. I am frustrated from lots of tests and errors at this point. (I use the mold that I made with low fire ceramic.)
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I really need help from you, experts!
1. Which firing schedule is good for recycled bottle glass frit casting?
The below is one of the firing schedules that I used and it didn't really work.
also fired on 1600 no hold, but it really didn't work and now I have no idea what the issue is...
Seg 1. 250 per h, 1550, 20-30mins
Seg 2. 80 per h, 1090, 30 mins
Seg3, 80 per h, 400, 0 and let it cool.

2. Is there any firing schedule that you are using for the bead batch annealing? anyone use the batch annealing?

I use the below firing schedule during lampworking, but I think the batch annealing is better for energy saving and easy to work.

Seg1. Full/ 1050(for bottle glass)/ 2-3 hours(depending on work hour)
Seg2. 100/ 750/0 off

Hopefully, I can get the answers

Thank you!

Last edited by Sese; 2017-10-23 at 3:02pm.
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  #2  
Old 2017-10-23, 2:24pm
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Three Muses Glass Three Muses Glass is offline
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It looks like it's working OK, you need to add more glass. Fused glass wants to be at least 1/4" thick. It won't spread to fill at those temps, it'll bunch up to come to that 1/4" as you are finding out. Also, I'd recommend using only 1 bottle per ring. Unless you know the exact batches the bottles came from they're likely to have a different COE from each other (even within the same case).
Also what wash are you using for the molds?
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Old 2017-10-23, 3:16pm
Sese Sese is offline
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Originally Posted by Three Muses Glass View Post
It looks like it's working OK, you need to add more glass. Fused glass wants to be at least 1/4" thick. It won't spread to fill at those temps, it'll bunch up to come to that 1/4" as you are finding out. Also, I'd recommend using only 1 bottle per ring. Unless you know the exact batches the bottles came from they're likely to have a different COE from each other (even within the same case).
Also what wash are you using for the molds?
Thank you, Rebecca!

I am using the kiln wash 'primo primer'. This kiln wash is good!

By any chance, for the batch annealing which firing schedule are you using?

I am using only one bottle per mold

It's hard to see in the pictures, but I got devit on the surface and the shapes are really uneven. maybe because the frit size is too big?
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  #4  
Old 2017-10-25, 2:34pm
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Three Muses Glass Three Muses Glass is offline
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The chunks do look a bit large. You might want to try and get them a bit smaller so you can put in enough to fill the molds all the way. Too small and they'll look more opaque from tiny bubbles. I like the transparency you have going on there now.
Devit is/can be a problem with bottle glass. There is a recipe for a borax solution somewhere here in the fusing section (it's down towards the bottom of the main forum list) or Warm Glass forum. All I remember is it used 20 Mule Team borax and something else. Other than that, to get rid of it you're looking at coldworking like sandblasting or hand sanding with diamond pads and fire polishing. There was a time I liked doing that. Now? Not so much. lol

Sorry, I don't know any batch annealing schedules.
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Old 2017-10-26, 2:11pm
Sese Sese is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Muses Glass View Post
The chunks do look a bit large. You might want to try and get them a bit smaller so you can put in enough to fill the molds all the way. Too small and they'll look more opaque from tiny bubbles. I like the transparency you have going on there now.
Devit is/can be a problem with bottle glass. There is a recipe for a borax solution somewhere here in the fusing section (it's down towards the bottom of the main forum list) or Warm Glass forum. All I remember is it used 20 Mule Team borax and something else. Other than that, to get rid of it you're looking at coldworking like sandblasting or hand sanding with diamond pads and fire polishing. There was a time I liked doing that. Now? Not so much. lol

Sorry, I don't know any batch annealing schedules.
Hi Rebecca,

Your comments are really helpful!
I have attached result as well.

So the frit size is really important. Right? Should it be less than 0.1cm I guess?
I tested with 1650F and hold for 10mins with small-medium frit size(0.1-0.3cm). The glass melted better, but it is stuck in the molds(I had to break the molds...) and I got needle points around the glass. ===> please see the attached.

Do you think I should lamp up more or less?
or maybe I should hold them for less time?

I am not sure! hmmm...
If this is art glass and got needlepoint and is stuck in the mold, what would you do generally?

Hope I can get an answer! I am still searching and testing. I will also upload more result.
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  #6  
Old 2017-10-26, 3:17pm
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Three Muses Glass Three Muses Glass is offline
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Much better fill! Good job! That's too hot I think, the 1650. Probably what's causing the needles and kiln wash failure (I'm sure you know Primo has to be applied every time). Your poor molds! Try going back to the 1550 with the 20 - 30 minute hold. If it's still needling, lower your temp.
It's OK to peek and see what's going on to dial in your process temp and time with eye protection and protect your skin too especially wear kevlar or at least welding gloves, maybe a leather apron.
Your frit doesn't have to be all one size. Some chunks, some smaller pieces to fill...it's all good as long as there is enough.

As far as glass that's stuck...I have heard (but never done) that you can flip the mold over, propped on some kiln furniture (but placed so the stuck piece can drop freely). Ramp up slowly accounting for the mold and your new thickness of glass, until you hear it drop out onto a kilnwashed shelf or similar. No idea what temp this happens. I did hear it works, it may not save the glass but it may save the mold.
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Old 2017-10-26, 5:26pm
Sese Sese is offline
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Default got it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Muses Glass View Post
Much better fill! Good job! That's too hot I think, the 1650. Probably what's causing the needles and kiln wash failure (I'm sure you know Primo has to be applied every time). Your poor molds! Try going back to the 1550 with the 20 - 30 minute hold. If it's still needling, lower your temp.
It's OK to peek and see what's going on to dial in your process temp and time with eye protection and protect your skin too especially wear kevlar or at least welding gloves, maybe a leather apron.
Your frit doesn't have to be all one size. Some chunks, some smaller pieces to fill...it's all good as long as there is enough.

As far as glass that's stuck...I have heard (but never done) that you can flip the mold over, propped on some kiln furniture (but placed so the stuck piece can drop freely). Ramp up slowly accounting for the mold and your new thickness of glass, until you hear it drop out onto a kilnwashed shelf or similar. No idea what temp this happens. I did hear it works, it may not save the glass but it may save the mold.
I will test it with schedule 1550F with 20-30 mins hold. Do you think I still need annealing firing schedule even if they are small pieces?

Also, for the stuck beads onto molds, I will try it and need to find out the temperature haha.

Thank you for all your helpful advice!
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  #8  
Old 2017-10-26, 6:36pm
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Speedslug Speedslug is offline
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My thought on frit size is close to pepper corns or there abouts.

I have little to no experience with what you are doing but back in the day when I was sluething Bulseyes' website for information that was the idea I got.

Bulseye has a really good video series on glass that you can pick up a lot from as long you remember that their glass is 90 or 96 coe.

Bottle glass I think is around 83 or some such.

Oh and more time at temp may be better than trying to pick the perfect temperature.

I do remember that glass always wants to be 5 cm (1/4 inch thick) no matter how hot you get it.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2017-10-26 at 6:38pm.
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  #9  
Old 2017-10-27, 4:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sese View Post
Do you think I still need annealing firing schedule even if they are small pieces?

Thank you for all your helpful advice!
Oh, yes. Always anneal. Your glass will love you for it (almost literally) forever.
And you're very welcome! Good luck!
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Old 2017-10-27, 7:27pm
Jeri Jeri is offline
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Take a look at www.glasswithapast.com for a lot of good info on using recycled glass. I agree you need smaller frit and more glass in each cavity. This site might help with schedules. I’m impressed with your molds. Jeri
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  #11  
Old 2017-10-30, 10:23pm
Sese Sese is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeri View Post
Take a look at www.glasswithapast.com for a lot of good info on using recycled glass. I agree you need smaller frit and more glass in each cavity. This site might help with schedules. I’m impressed with your molds. Jeri
Hi Jeri,
I know that site!
I had her classes as well! She's genius. love her postings and effort for recycled glass.

Thank you!
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  #12  
Old 2017-11-05, 1:12pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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There is no standard formulation for bottle glass and therefore there is NO standard slump or annealing cycle for it. Whats worse is that it definitely varies for the same bottle depending on what might have been available at the time they were producing them. Two bottles used for the same product may be completely different. The glass they use for bottles has been formulated to work well for their automated process and not for fusing or other uses.
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