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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2011-04-21, 5:20pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Stringer work on a Scorpion anyone?
I am having a terrible time getting the stringer thing down. I am working on a Scorpion with a Sequal Integra and propane. I have watched Corina's DVD, a couple of tutorials on YouTube and read tons of post and tutorials including J.C. Herrell's and still...
I have spent countless hours trying to find the "Sweet Spot" but it must have been an option I didn't choose because they seemed to have left it out
I know the Scorpion is supposed to be very efficient with oxy and there is supposedly not much residual heat, I read one person had much less drying of their hands and another remarked that they were able to use much more of their rods before it got to hot. Could that be it? Not enough heat outside the flame?
Some people say to turn the torch down, some say do not as it will damage it. I have not tried to use the outer flame at this point, it seemed counterintuitive until I thought about some of the comments I had read.
Can anyone tell me if the Scorpion is my issue? ( please tell me it isn't me) unless of course it is, than I think I can handle it if you tell me what I am doing wrong
Thanks much!
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2011-04-21, 5:25pm
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rainbowchasingtimewaster
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Willow Glen, CA
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Is the inner flame a cricket, bobcat or a lynx? I am on a lynx and I have a harder time controlling fine stringer than when I was on a minor. The minor had a softer flame than the lynx and the sweet spot was larger. There is one on the lynx but it's so small that you have to really be able to orchestrate your hands by rotating the bead and leaving the stringer in one place (the sweet spot). It's a bit trickier than with the minor, in my opinion.
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2011-04-21, 5:30pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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I doubt it's the torch because the inner flame is a Cricket.
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2011-04-21, 5:37pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loribeads
Is the inner flame a cricket, bobcat or a lynx? I am on a lynx and I have a harder time controlling fine stringer than when I was on a minor. The minor had a softer flame than the lynx and the sweet spot was larger. There is one on the lynx but it's so small that you have to really be able to orchestrate your hands by rotating the bead and leaving the stringer in one place (the sweet spot). It's a bit trickier than with the minor, in my opinion.
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I believe the inner fire is a cricket on the Scorpion, I do have a Lynx as well but haven't tried to do stringer work with it. I bought the Lynx because I wanted a Scorpion and was told there was a six week wait ( then someone else told me to triple that, at least
I have tried to work with a stringer form every angle and position (I think) it either does not melt, curls up into a ball or starts to melt about a quarter inch up the stringer. I am pulling my hair out! I wanted to try some more this evening but was hoping for a different plan of attack.
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2011-04-21, 5:41pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid
I doubt it's the torch because the inner flame is a Cricket.
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Thats it? Thats all you got for me? crushing my hopes?lol
Any tips?
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2011-04-21, 5:58pm
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sunscreen me baby
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
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I turn my flame down and work higher up. I never could figure out where in the edge of the flame I needed to be.
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2011-04-21, 6:00pm
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I'm meeeeelting
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Join Date: May 27, 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
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Try working higher up in the flame. I took a Melanie Moertel class as Glass Stock last year and we used Crickets for the class. She suggests that the thinner the stringer, the higher up in the flame you work. I found that to work well, although I still tend to forget to move further out. I should add, though, that I'm on a Barracuda (piranha center fire) and it also has a hot narrow flame, so I found the Cricket to be an easy transition.
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2011-04-21, 6:04pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Florida
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PPP .... lots of practice! I use a scorpion and I love it. I have used a minor in the past and I like my scorpion much better for all aspects of bead making. Just keep practicing and the stringer work will kick in on the scorpion.
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2011-04-21, 6:06pm
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ
I turn my flame down and work higher up. I never could figure out where in the edge of the flame I needed to be.
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This is what I do, also. It works well for me.
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BarbR in Kalamazoo.
Scorpion, bulk propane, 2 5lpm oxycons, tanked O2, a Minor and a HH (just in case)
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2011-04-21, 6:27pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dani
Thats it? Thats all you got for me? crushing my hopes?lol
Any tips?
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Well, the rest of the post was going to be "I have a cricket and it has a sweet spot."
Most people don't take well to the advice you're gonna get - practice, practice, practice. It's there - you just have to find it.
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DOG is my co-pilot
Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2011-04-21, 6:37pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasi
PPP .... lots of practice! I use a scorpion and I love it. I have used a minor in the past and I like my scorpion much better for all aspects of bead making. Just keep practicing and the stringer work will kick in on the scorpion.
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Dasi,
How do you have your flame set? length etc. Do you turn your torch down often? everyone keeps saying it will damage it because it is a fairly delicate torch.
I have had no problems with any thing else I have tried, and I am sure I have spent at least 60 hours doing nothing but stringer work, I didn't want to move on to something else until I got the feel of it (afraid I might not get back to it) but it has been really frustrating. Especially because I love making beads so much it's hard to turn off the torch and get anything else done, lol
Thanks for the encouragement! I will keep plugging away.
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2011-04-21, 6:40pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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To everyone else, thank you for the suggestions, I am going to go down and work on it again, well maybe in the morning I just realized it's getting late...
Thanks again!
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2011-04-21, 7:14pm
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
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I love my Scorpion. I work with the inner fire mostly and oxygen from both rings. I find it has more radiant heat than the Mega Minor. There is definitely a sweet spot. I don't even turn down my flame for stringer work. Try practicing with black stringer on a black bead. you can melt it all in and keep practicing. Try making an encased black stringer, which will be stiffer and easier to work with. Practice with that. There will come an "aha" moment when you will "get" it. Good luck!
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2011-04-21, 7:36pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dani
Dasi,
How do you have your flame set? length etc. Do you turn your torch down often? everyone keeps saying it will damage it because it is a fairly delicate torch.
I have had no problems with any thing else I have tried, and I am sure I have spent at least 60 hours doing nothing but stringer work, I didn't want to move on to something else until I got the feel of it (afraid I might not get back to it) but it has been really frustrating. Especially because I love making beads so much it's hard to turn off the torch and get anything else done, lol
Thanks for the encouragement! I will keep plugging away.
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Try just doing the stringer work by just going around the bead with a straight line. Just make rings around the bead and then rake them so you have a decoration on the bead. This should help you find the sweet spot, since you do not need to do anything but spin the bead as you lay down the stringer. Once you feel like you have that conquered, then move onto stringer work all over the bead in different directions.
Do you have a creation station? Are your elbows resting on something? This really helps me steady myself and control exactly where I need my bead and my stringerto be in relation to the flame.
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2011-04-21, 7:47pm
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Unmedicated since '62
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2009
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when i practiced on the scorpion i just cheated and wound down the flame and drew like a pencil - someone said thats what trey cornette does too (dont know if that correct, apologies to Trey) and it works
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2011-04-22, 2:02pm
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Certified Glassaholic!
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Yup. I took a class with Trey and he's the MASTER of stringer work. He turns his torch down to a super mini flame. That's what I do. Never/hasn't done any harm to my torch. I've done this on a Minor, Mega Minor, Cricket, and now Scorpion.
-Yee
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2011-04-22, 2:18pm
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I ate a big red candle!
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Join Date: Oct 29, 2005
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I have the same setup and I just turn my flame down quite a bit. Sorry if that's not very helpful, but at least you know it's not your torch and it'll just take practice.
Here's a video I made showing stringer work. It'd be better if you could see the point of view, but maybe it'll help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5t4VSF-xHY
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2011-04-23, 2:05pm
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where is that UPS man?
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2007
Location: behind you.....
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I have a scorpion and love it... I use the cricket with the outer oxygen on. Great radiant heat then for small stringer i work under the flame for larger i work out in the flame...
Hope you find your sweet spot. It is a great torch...
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scorpion and m15,m10, tanked O2, 1 bitchin sound system
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2011-04-25, 6:25pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booga119
I have the same setup and I just turn my flame down quite a bit. Sorry if that's not very helpful, but at least you know it's not your torch and it'll just take practice.
Here's a video I made showing stringer work. It'd be better if you could see the point of view, but maybe it'll help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5t4VSF-xHY
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Thank you for the video tip. I don't know how I missed it, I thought I had seen all the tutorials on youtube with any kind of stringer work. I just watched it once now I am going back to watch it again.
Thanks again, I am going to try again as soon as I get back from taking my kitty to have his teeth cleaned in the morning, will give me something to do until I pick him up, that should give me a another six hours. I will get this!
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2011-04-25, 6:35pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeepers
Yup. I took a class with Trey and he's the MASTER of stringer work. He turns his torch down to a super mini flame. That's what I do. Never/hasn't done any harm to my torch. I've done this on a Minor, Mega Minor, Cricket, and now Scorpion.
-Yee
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I'm glad to know someone who has actually used a scorpion and turned it down to do stringers. So many people have said not to that it scared me, mainly because I know they can take a while to get back form cleaning
What is Trey's full name and where does he teach? I haven't actually taken any classes yet. Just a lot of reading and purchased tutorials, all of Kerri Fuhr's (which I know are advanced for the level I am working at but I couldn't resist) and of course Corinna's DVD.
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2011-04-25, 6:39pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfectDeb
when i practiced on the scorpion i just cheated and wound down the flame and drew like a pencil - someone said thats what trey cornette does too (dont know if that correct, apologies to Trey) and it works
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I apologize, I did not see that you had posted Trey's last name (or that you had also turned your Scorpion down)I will try to find a class.
Thanks!
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2011-04-25, 6:40pm
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Certified Glassaholic!
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Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
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Trey Cornette. He's a member here ( http://www.treycornette.com) He teaches all over. I took a class with him at Kris Schaible's studio (Noodlesaurus).
If you turn your torch down too low and it starts to build up carbon on the face just knock it off/scrape it off quickly with something metal. It's all good And, if you want, clean the ports from time to time. But I haven't had any problems with carbon buildup.
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2011-04-26, 5:21pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 30, 2010
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Trey's doing a class at Arrow Springs at the end of May time (details on their web site). Can't wait to go ...!!
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2011-04-27, 3:17am
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Unmedicated since '62
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booga119
I have the same setup and I just turn my flame down quite a bit. Sorry if that's not very helpful, but at least you know it's not your torch and it'll just take practice.
Here's a video I made showing stringer work. It'd be better if you could see the point of view, but maybe it'll help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5t4VSF-xHY
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you work with such a short length of stringer too!! that must give you more control - never thought of that, i'm always juggling about a foot of stringer
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Deb
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2011-04-27, 10:49am
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I ate a big red candle!
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Join Date: Oct 29, 2005
Location: Crotchfester, NY
Posts: 854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfectDeb
you work with such a short length of stringer too!! that must give you more control - never thought of that, i'm always juggling about a foot of stringer
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Yeah whenever I accidentally make a longer one, I have to trim it down to size because it flops around allover. My fingertips get a little toasty sometimes though.
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2011-04-27, 1:54pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonwoodStudio
Trey's doing a class at Arrow Springs at the end of May time (details on their web site). Can't wait to go ...!!
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I would love to! unfortunately thats the opposite coast. I am in NC. I did notice that he has a class in Georgia in Sept. That is a lot closer distance wise, but Sept. is so long to wait
I am going to practice some now. Didn't get the chance yesterday drove me crazy. Thats how I know that this it, the thing I have been looking for, the thing I can not bare not to do.
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2011-04-27, 2:45pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid
Well, the rest of the post was going to be "I have a cricket and it has a sweet spot."
Most people don't take well to the advice you're gonna get - practice, practice, practice. It's there - you just have to find it.
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I can take it. I have no problem with advise even when it is not what I want to hear or I wouldn't have posted asking for it. I usually pick up on things quickly and am no stranger to practice, believe me... I am a calligrapher and do around 13 scripts. I had a teacher that demanded a min. of 4 hours practice a night. Rather than start her classes with a fountain type pen (a pen with a bladder that can be filled with ink) and paper with a smooth surface, she started us with a dip pen, bottled ink and textured paper and to top it off she began with Spencerian and and Roundhand, both scripts done with a sharply pointed nib so when you catch it on a fiber of paper the ink in the nib splatters everywhere and that happens about a million times before you get the hang of it (ok, maybe not a million )This particular instructor was of the opinion that if you were not prepared to get past those obstacles than you would not be willing to put the time in to really excel therefore she weeded out the people who would quit fast. She actually smacked my hand if I was not holding the pen correctly, marked through letters that were still wet and said things like "What is that! She was right, by the end of our first 6 weeks I was the only student left of the 11 who started. Not only did I lean to perfectly execute very difficult scripts but to control my temper, bite my lip instead of crying and oh yes, to practice.
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2011-04-27, 3:03pm
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Dani
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Join Date: May 14, 2010
Location: Lake Lure, North Carolina
Posts: 49
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I just had an idea as I fondly remembered my calligraphy instructor. Consistency! When I first got ready to attempt stringers I pulled a bunch of stringers, different colors and widths, clear and opaque! I should have pulled a bunch of the same color and width! What and idiot! Well I know where to start tonight, duh. Someone suggested clear or transparent. I guess I'll do a bunch of transparent with about the same viscosity and do them all the same size.
Thanks again, and See ya!
Have a good night all.
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2011-04-27, 3:08pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 15, 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 235
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Hi Dani, I have a Scorpion running on propane and an 8lpm concentrator. I am still getting the hang of really good stringer control! I like using hair fine stringer now after doing a class with Corina Tettinger, however it's still a learning process.
IMHO there are 2 parts to stringer control - 1 is finding the optimal heat position, the other is control of the stringer. If you can't find the optimal heat position, the stringer control is going to be inconsistent.
I can't give you an exact spot where the Scorpion's sweet spot is, however it does have a surprising amount of radiant heat. I haven't tried using the outer oxy ring, will have to give this a try!
As for turning the flame down, I don't - no particular reason, just what I'm used to I guess. If the flame's too hot, I just move the bead/stringer further away.
Using the mandrel in my left hand, I put the bead under the flame and to the right side of it - so it's out of the flame. Stringer is in my right hand. With a neutral flame with torch candles about 8mm long, the heat seems best for stringer control about 1.5 - 2 inches straight out from the torch face and about 1 - 1.5 inches from there over to the right. If there isn't enough heat there, the stringer won't move at all; so move a little closer to the flame, try again; still not moving - move closer to the flame again and so on.
Obviously you'll need to play around to find the best spot for your torch. A lot of the heat issues are trial and error. The stringer application itself is another story - finding the right spot doesn't mean automatically beautiful stringer application (at least, not for me ).
Have fun,
Marianne.
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