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  #1  
Old 2020-07-28, 11:56am
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BurningScentsations BurningScentsations is offline
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Default Running torch on natural gas question

In order to get around propane tanks being lugged to and from my basement, we have natural gas lines down there and the torch I'm looking at says it will run just fine on that.

So, now to the questions:
  1. What kind of connector do I need on the gas line?
  2. Do I need any regulator on the gas line?
  3. Do I just get a plumber to install it?
  4. For surface mix torch, do I really not need a flashback arrester?

Thank you all in advance for your help!
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  #2  
Old 2020-07-30, 2:39am
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Hi Lloyd.

House hold NG will be at something like 1/4 psi pressures so any kind of regulator is probably not going to able to work with it that low.

I don't use one.

I fitted "black pipe" connectors from one area at my hardware store to a hose nipple from the compressed air fitting area at the same store.
Then I got a 6 or 10 foot section of Bar B Que hose with fitting on both ends and cut one end off, stuck it on the hose nipple ( check the inner diameter of the hose before you buy the nipple){ask me how I know that}, and snugged it up with a hose clamp {belt and suspenders kind of guy, I am}.

Remember that NG has something like one fifth of the BTUs that propane has so working big or working boro is going to be an exercise in patience.

I did the plumbing / piping work myself but the US Navy spent a good chunk of change teaching me about a whole mess of stuff and if you don't feel confident about your own skills then hiring it out is a good idea.
Or your could just pay some one to listen and look at what you plan to do, do it your self and hire them back to look it over afterward before you light up.
Lots of companies will NOT hook up anything they are unfamiliar with due to insurance liabilities.
Depending on the building codes where you live you might be "legally" required to get the whole thing inspected and approved by a fire inspector or the city building inspector.

I put a tee in the line from the back of my gas kitchen stove and put a separate shut off valve there { a good 10 feet or more from the torch bench, so i could shut it off from a safe distance if something went wrong on me} and plumbed more black pipe to the bench.

I tried to use a flash back arrester but I got the kind that have a check valve inside instead of the metal screen and the pressure was not enough to open the valve.
With the screen kind you can blow lightly through either end, with the check valve it only goes one way.


Remember that the fuel connectors have a notch cut at the corners of the nut and spin to tighten in the other direction than regular bolts.

Oh and don't reef down hard on the valves on the torch, or the brass fittings when putting it all together.
The brass is soft to make a good seal by lightly deforming the two surfaces together making a great seal.
If they get crammed too hard they can get damaged threads or matting surfaces and develop leaks.
That can ruin very expensive torches and require factory repair.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2020-07-30 at 2:47am.
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  #3  
Old 2020-07-30, 2:53am
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OH Yeah, BEFORE I forget ....

You really don't want to work with Propane in a basement anyway.
It is heavier than air and even a tiny leak can pool in a basement until you flip a light switch or it finds the the flame in a furnace or water heater and then it will go boom just like in the movies.
And your insurance company will not cover any of the damages.

AND not only all that but....

Your insurance company could refuse to pay any other kind of claim like water damage from a leaky pipe if they find out that you have more than a one pound can of propane inside your house.
Their lawyers love to find reasons to refuse to pay claims like that.
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Old 2020-07-30, 6:50am
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Phil,

Thank you very much for your help. As always, you are a fount of knowledge.

The way you describe your setup is how I was envisioning it too, but wasn't sure if there was a better way. (I remember how we hooked up our bunson burners in chemistry lab in high school, and figured this would work the same way.)

I'll definitely be hiring out to have the work done. Would a plumber be who I call? I will definitely check the inner diameter of the hose

Have a great day,

Lloyd
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  #5  
Old 2020-07-30, 8:03pm
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Call HVAC professional and have them set up a shut off valve at the pipe connection and you will have shut off at your torch for added safety.
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  #6  
Old 2020-07-31, 12:01pm
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Aye, MSY439 has the way of it.

We use the term 'plumbed lines' but it's HVAC folks that work with gas lines.
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  #7  
Old 2020-07-31, 2:11pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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propane is too hazardous to use in a basement? Haha....Complete nonsense. Just understand the issues and do it responsibly. There are perfectly safe ways to do this and many many artists do. Im tired of the misinformation being shared here as gospel.
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  #8  
Old 2020-08-01, 7:08am
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MSY439,

Thank you very much for the info. I never would have thought that the HVAC folks would do that. That's a great piece of information.

Phiil, Thanks again for all your help!

Larry,

Thanks for your reply. I know it can be done. I did it years the first time around when I had my studio. I might still use propane again, but would like to improve the safety of it nonetheless.

Maybe keep the propane outside until I need it. I'll need quick connectors to disconnect the hose since I don't want to strip the threads by constantly unscrewing them.

Do these exist for tanks. I know the quick connects do exist for the torch side of the house.


Thanks again everyone!
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  #9  
Old 2020-08-02, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningScentsations View Post

Larry,

Thanks for your reply. I know it can be done. I did it years the first time around when I had my studio. I might still use propane again, but would like to improve the safety of it nonetheless.

Maybe keep the propane outside until I need it. I'll need quick connectors to disconnect the hose since I don't want to strip the threads by constantly unscrewing them.

Do these exist for tanks. I know the quick connects do exist for the torch side of the house.


Thanks again everyone!
There are a lot of excellent safety related resources online. If your interested in how professionals safely run Propane indoors please contact the glass artist community on facebook in the various groups that exist there. Also there is an active glass artist forum at talkglass.com as well. There are good reasons why this forum has been a ghost town for years.
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  #10  
Old 2020-08-05, 9:00pm
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Larry,

Thank you very much. I'll be sure to check that out.

Lloyd
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  #11  
Old 2020-08-06, 3:23pm
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I've considered doing that, I would love to know how it turns out with your torch, which one did you decide on?
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  #12  
Old 2020-08-19, 6:21am
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Kristin,

I'm doing propane at least for now. It is so much simpler and a known quality of heat. I've got the Alpha Torch sitting in my basement and the oxycon. Waiting on several more shipments including the kiln. That's going to be a while!

Natural gas was so many unknowns and what if it wasn't hot enough for me or there were pressure problems? Probably wouldn't be, but wasn't sure.

Plus hubby was afraid an odd gas valve in the basement might hurt resale value down the road.

Maybe we worry too much!
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  #13  
Old 2020-08-26, 6:11am
LochGlassBeads LochGlassBeads is offline
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I wonder what PSI a normal gas line to a house is, & what a torch needs. Is there variation on this state by state? Or even city by city?
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  #14  
Old 2020-08-26, 7:55pm
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I run a minor on natural gas at 1\4 PSI with a 10 liter oxycon,I cannot work Boro or do sculptures but I dont want to so this is good set up for me. I f you need to run hotter you need to work with propane. you can check with your gas company on the PSI in your area.
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  #15  
Old 2020-08-29, 4:14pm
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One can locate the pressure delivered to the house by looking for pressure information as located on the gas meter regulator. Different models may have the data in various locations. In this case it is on the end cap of the regulator.

At my location it is 6.5 to 7.5 WC (water column) which converts to .235 to .271 PSI or about 1/4 PSI. To convert WC to PSI search for the converter on the web.
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