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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2012-03-16, 2:55pm
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Borovangelist
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Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 3,002
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Find out what the others in your area are paying. I was paying my suppliers over 45.00 a K tank and found out what range others were in, and given I'd been with them over about 7 years too, I was @#$sed.
I'm now paying 16.50 a tank.
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-Tom
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2012-03-16, 5:04pm
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Serenity Now!
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Join Date: Jul 15, 2005
Location: Deep in the woods
Posts: 3,358
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I think that's part of my problem Tom. There <aren't> others in my area, as I'm living deep in the forest, rather remotely. $16.50 is amazing. I think the base price for mine is somewhere around $55ish, but then they add-on a dangerous materials transport fee ('cause I couldn't possibly transport it), and a bunch of other stuff...comes to $80. Then I have to pay a guy down the road to lug it from the driveway up and around to it's shed out back.
Ouch. But - so far I haven't seen a set-up that can compare to the tanked oxy which I know and love, so a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do, and all that jazz.
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Val Lewis
Exclusive distributor for FYI Silver Metal Clay, and excited to be a distributor for CBS Dichroic EXTRACT
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2012-03-16, 5:58pm
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newbie
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over the Moon
But - so far I haven't seen a set-up that can compare to the tanked oxy which I know and love, so a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do, and all that jazz.
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We got ourselves a concentrator and Homefill pump and are filling our own oxy for a year now. We hire the bottles from the company and pay rent and every 4 - 6 months we get swap overs. This ensures we have tested bottles on the premises. One bottle is being filled while the other one is in use. We've gone from $700 - $900 a month on oxy to about $50 a month.
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2012-03-16, 7:19pm
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over the Moon
I've been with them for the last 7 years or so, and they charge me about $80/tank. Would love to know if you know a 'trick' to get that number down.
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Robbery. Plain and simple robbery. You are being taken advantage of. When I'm working glass with any regularity, a K tank (200 cu ft) lasts me mere days. In one year, at 2 tanks a week, that is EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS. Insanity. You could buy a cryogenic plant in just a couple years and sell oxygen yourself at a profit at those rates.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-03-16, 7:31pm
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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First off, set up an account at your dealer. That act alone saved me $30.00 per tank. Then take a few baubles in to show and donate them to the owners/managers wife. That saved me enough that I get 'K' tanks for about $18.00
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2012-03-17, 8:25am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2012
Location: Houston (ish), TX
Posts: 283
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I did the same as Cheng. Went from $37 to $15 (before the add on charges). You could also get more than one tank at a time to lower delivery fees.
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Gary
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2012-03-17, 10:42am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2012
Location: Houston (ish), TX
Posts: 283
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What home fill system do you have Wicked?
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Gary
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2012-03-17, 2:35pm
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Serenity Now!
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Join Date: Jul 15, 2005
Location: Deep in the woods
Posts: 3,358
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Thanks for all your info everyone. I'd also love more detailed info please Wicked. I simply must make a change. I did set-up an account with my provider (Praxair) years ago, but the guys I deal with - well, they're car dudes, and not interested in the least about anything glass related. Or so it seems. They're just middle-men anyways, as Praxair itself doesn't deliver to the boonies where I'm at.
Btw Gary - I actually pay rent on two tansk for a yearly rate, and do, in fact get 2 tanks delivered at a time. The price I quoted is based on that 'supposed' deal.
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Val Lewis
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2012-03-17, 9:15pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2012
Location: Houston (ish), TX
Posts: 283
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Ouch. Sorry to hear that Val.
$50 a month looks real good to me. I'm going to have to look at home fill a bit closer.
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Gary
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2012-03-18, 1:19am
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newbie
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over the Moon
I'd also love more detailed info please Wicked. I simply must make a change.
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We got our first homefill from Unlimited Oxygen, but the pump that came with it was a nightmare and never worked properly. First a broken belt that took over a month for UO to send me a replacement for and then the realisation that the motor shaft was broken and on top of that the frustration of trying to deal with UO. The concentrator that came with the setup is great though, I think it's one of their M-15s
Anyway, I was able to source a homefill pump from a member on another glass melting forum and this pump is great! So, the difference is that the UO pump was a Homefill II "Venture" and a lot of the parts, including the piston parts, are aluminium, non durable and fast wearing. If the piston hub is only slightly unaligned, it's knock about and screw up your piston rods in short order. The pump we replaced it with is just called a Homefill II and has brass parts. So, the short and curly of that is, whatever you do (and while I can recommend their concentrators), do not get a Homefill II Venture system from UO.
You may be able to find one on Craigs List, I've seen them come up there, find one with very low hours.
So ... all you need to fill up your tanks is a decent oxy con (specs on the M-15 are 8 LPM at 15 PSI), a Homefill II pump and a "whip" which is an adapter hose with pressure gauge to fit onto your tanks. The pump has an auto cutoff switch which prevents it from overfilling your bottles.
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2012-03-18, 8:35am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheng076
First off, set up an account at your dealer. That act alone saved me $30.00 per tank. Then take a few baubles in to show and donate them to the owners/managers wife. That saved me enough that I get 'K' tanks for about $18.00
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I am down to $20 per K tank and the manager likes blown glass pumpkins
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2012-03-18, 12:21pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2012
Location: Houston (ish), TX
Posts: 283
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Thanks Wickid.
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Gary
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2012-03-27, 9:14pm
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DM Pipes
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Join Date: Mar 12, 2012
Posts: 16
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Update
Alright, So... Since posting this, I have been working hard on getting my setup done. I made a kiln, and a torch.
The Kiln is 120v, it draws about 13 amps, digital temperature readout/control.
The torch has a center and outer fire. The outer ring has 15 fuel ports, and 4 in the center. Originally I had 7 in the center, but I was having a lot of trouble soldering the thin wall tubing, so I had to modify it a bit. Right now I have it set at 10 psi oxy, and 5 psi propane. Seems to burn nicely, but I have nothing to compare it to....so I really don't know, haha. It can achieve a fairly wide range of flame characteristics it seems... the pinpoint seems just like what I wanted. The torch face stays relatively cool to the touch in use. Basically just made it from brass and copper tubes. I salvaged the valves from some victor style oxy/acetylene torch handles I found at the pawn shop, never been used before.
So that's about it for now, I need to put some sheet metal down on the table for a nice fireproof work surface. And make some tools. I already have ventilation covered, if anyone was wondering where that was.
I may start on a new torch soon, and transfer what I learned from making this one... I think It can improve the design a bit.
In any case, I saved a lot of money so far, heh.
Looking forward to melting some glass now!
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2012-03-27, 10:22pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 1,958
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That torch is so cool.
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2012-03-28, 12:16am
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newbie
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
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Looks good, you're quite handy, aren't ya?
Couple of things you might want to consider though
If you haven't got a flashback arrestor on your gas, you should probably get one, especially if you're playing around with home made torches.
Another thing, if your brass tubes don't turn out too well, which they may not in the long run, try surgical steel needles from syringes. They do work well and are durable.
Have fun and be careful
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2012-03-28, 12:35am
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DM Pipes
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Join Date: Mar 12, 2012
Posts: 16
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I do have flashback arrestors, they are right after the Y connections under the bench. I also thought it would be a good idea...considering this is my first torch build.
I'll keep those surgical steel needles in mind! I never thought of using those.
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2012-03-28, 5:54am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
Posts: 1,784
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Loving the DIY here. Do a write up on your torch build - you could probably sell it (with appropriate disclaimers).
__________________
Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-03-28, 8:55am
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...
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Join Date: Apr 03, 2006
Location: Nor-Cal Coast
Posts: 892
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Nice work Dan! I love the look of the torch, it came out great.
The kiln looks cool too. You will want to put something on the handle that will
insulate your hand from the heat though because that will be hot.
It could use a hinge too.
It also appears that you have regular copper wire connected to the element
connectors, you will burn your connections pretty quick if you don't use high temp
appliance wire with high temp connectors.
With that being said, these are some of the Coolest DIY projects I've seen on here in a while, Thanks for showing us your work! Your pipes are a work of art as well.
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2012-03-28, 9:35am
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DM Pipes
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Join Date: Mar 12, 2012
Posts: 16
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Thanks for the recommendations Mike. I thought that the element connectors were pretty strange looking... this is what the kiln supplies place gave me... I'll have to replace that.
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2012-03-28, 11:54am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2012
Location: Houston (ish), TX
Posts: 283
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Good job Dan.
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Gary
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2012-04-03, 8:43am
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...displaced ocean lover
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Join Date: Sep 22, 2009
Location: Sadly about 7000 miles from King Kamehameha Hwy
Posts: 1,661
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This is one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on LE.
It went from, "help me with my setup" to "hey, look...I made my own freeeeking torch!" That's just awesome!!
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2012-04-04, 7:45pm
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Enjoying Life
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Join Date: May 28, 2009
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Posts: 103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Blaty
This is one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on LE.
It went from, "help me with my setup" to "hey, look...I made my own freeeeking torch!" That's just awesome!!
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Yeah, I second what Roo Blaty said. I enjoyed every second of that!!!
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Dave
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2012-04-04, 10:22pm
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Member
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Join Date: Nov 29, 2011
Location: Costa Rica
Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over the Moon
I'm curious who a person needs to know at Praxair to get a good deal on the oxy though. I've been with them for the last 7 years or so, and they charge me about $80/tank. Would love to know if you know a 'trick' to get that number down.
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$80/tank . I thought I was the only one being ripped off by praxair; I used to pay $60/tank (down here in Costa Rica). Then I recently switched to a concentratror and man thatīs a whole different story!!! . I dont have to worry about running out of oxy and Iīve had more time to learn new techniques.
I would suggest you to switch to concentrators, maybe a couple of M20 from Unlimited oxygen would do the job, itīs around $400 for each but itīs a great investment. How much do you spend on a regular month buying oxy from praxair?
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2012-04-05, 8:04am
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...displaced ocean lover
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Join Date: Sep 22, 2009
Location: Sadly about 7000 miles from King Kamehameha Hwy
Posts: 1,661
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Yeah, what's with the difference in the price of AIR?
I was quoted $68 plus rental fees. I'd rather get 2 giant oxycon's and (try to) build that "holding tank" thingy. I think in a year or two, I'd use enough O2 that that the price of the 2 concentrators would pay for themselves quickly, if I opt for that route.
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2012-04-05, 10:21am
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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The holding tank thing is rediculously simple. Even a caveman can do it. LOL
Just cut your oxycon supply hose at some convenient place and insert a 'T' fitting. run a short hose from the 'T' to the tank and you're done.
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2012-04-05, 1:59pm
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...displaced ocean lover
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Join Date: Sep 22, 2009
Location: Sadly about 7000 miles from King Kamehameha Hwy
Posts: 1,661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheng076
The holding tank thing is rediculously simple. Even a caveman can do it. LOL
Just cut your oxycon supply hose CUT!? .
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Actually...that does sound kinda simple when I got over the shock of cutting something...
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2012-04-05, 11:38pm
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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Ya gotta break some eggs to get an omelette (sp)!
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2012-04-06, 8:39am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 410
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Rolls off topic sorry....
Your Pipes are really cool Dan!! Gorgeous Should make me an electric one
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2012-04-13, 5:33pm
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DM Pipes
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Join Date: Mar 12, 2012
Posts: 16
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New torch!
Hey thanks for all the great comments everyone!
So, learning from my first design, I decided to make a 2.0 version. I'm much happier with this torch setup, and probably won't have to make another for a long time, so now its REALLY time to start working glass...
Here is the new torch, I decided against an independent center fire this time, and just went with a duel torch setup. The smaller torch has 7 fuel ports, and makes a really fine pinpoint flame, much better than my first design. The larger torch has 15 fuel/oxy ports.
I lengthened the torches to keep the bodies cooler in use, this was the main problem with my first torch, and there seem to run much cooler now.
Still playing around with psi settings for my oxy/propane, any suggestions? 5psi propane and 10psi oxy seems to work just fine.
Anyhow, let me know what you guys think!
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2012-04-13, 6:38pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 06, 2011
Location: SF bay area
Posts: 1,470
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Forget about making pipes you have a future as a torch manufacturer
those look great
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Morgan
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. #C-151
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