A simple press idea for da shiny bit :)

[ginko]

Originally Posted by KristiB

what I have a problem with is people showing others in a public forum how to create something that someone else is selling, or creating it and then selling it themselves. it's not just presses, but beads as well.

I see where you are coming from on this, and agree. What I do not see is that JM does not have an original product. He has a beautifully fine-tuned modification. If someone is going to copy that, then yes, I think that is a problem. None of the make-it-yourself tools are in that category.

go for in ginko, post the link, people already have. i have gotten a few pm's from people who have bought them and made their own..having trouble with split tubing because the tubing they bought was too thin, and/or it's splitting because it's difficult to get it lined up properly to get a nice even flare. i can't really help them because i don't have that problem and haven't had to try and figure it out, maybe if it's ok, i could send them your way and you can help them?

Well, I suppose I can, just as I have helped the JM tool owners that have had problems with split tubing and uneven flares, or for that matter the Retro Tool liner user's problems. There isn't a tool on the market that will flare perfectly without any techinique involved. I never, ever said the off-the-shelf arbor press was as good as or better than JM's tool. In fact, I say the opposite. I shall know for certain in a few days.

This weekend we will have a JM tool, manual daps, and an arbor press to play with and compare. I am looking forward to trying the JM tool to see if I want to purchase it. With all this flak, I may not want it even it it gold plated the core and served it up on a silver platter. This bruhahaa likely is causing JM to lose more business than the knock-offs ever could.

[Carmen Isaacs]

i used to core my beads with a dapping tool so your fat finger tool is awesome, if I was still doing it that way i would buy one in a heartbeat.

So you ( KristiB) get to choose which tools Andrew is allowed to give tutorials on??? Wow!

[KristiB]

Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs

i used to core my beads with a dapping tool so your fat finger tool is awesome, if I was still doing it that way i would buy one in a heartbeat.

So you ( KristiB) get to choose which tools Andrew is allowed to give tutorials on??? Wow!

No Carmen, I don't.

I've said this about 10 times now. It wasn't just Andrew, it was the direction of the whole thread. It's been done before and it ended up with someone selling replica's of one of the presses. Not a modified version, not another way of doing it, but it looked and operated the same. Once again, I could care less if someone makes a tool becuase they don't want to buy it. I think it's wrong to publicly show people how to make something someone elses sells (I'm not talking about dot beads, so don't go there). What someone does for their own use, in the privacy of their own home, I could care less about.


I am done with this subject. I've said what I meant, I've apologied for some things and to me, the subject is over.

Unfortunatly there are those of you that have to go on and on....

[Carmen Isaacs]

Sorry KristiB I am obviously having a blonde moment here. I have Jim's press and I just didn't see that Andrew's was the same and I didn't see where he suggested making them and selling them.
I also don't see anybody coming close to making a press like Jim's and giving the customer service that he does so I just didn't think it was necessary for you create such a stir.
I do apologize if I misunderstood you.

[Kym]

Well, it mightn't have been necessarily pointed at Andrew but it was on his thread and he is the one with his teeth kicked in....the evidence says otherwise to me. The apology must been in TAM, not here on this thread where he was also taken to task in public.

Cheers
Kym

[Nicker]

I've apologized to Andrew, does it really matter where I did it?

[KristiB]

Originally Posted by Kym

Well, it mightn't have been necessarily pointed at Andrew but it was on his thread and he is the one with his teeth kicked in....the evidence says otherwise to me. The apology must been in TAM, not here on this thread where he was also taken to task in public.

Cheers
Kym

I apologized for some things in the thread where he totally trashed me WAY worse than this, along with everyone else on this board. He had to start that other thread apparently because I didn't answer his questions quick enough. I wasn't online last night, I was torching. It's not my fault the apology is not here in this thread.

[theglasszone]

Originally Posted by Nicker

OMG!!! I love this...!!! Where in heaven's name did you find this? Nicker, from what I've seen, you stepped up and said you were sorry. I'm not the one at who's discretion it is to accept it or not, but if I were me, I would appreciate the sincerity of it (it's not an easy thing to say) and let it go. That's just me...

~DeAnne

[KristiB]

Originally Posted by spotty dots

Andrews tools have been around for many, many years .

Really?? I did not know that. I thought Andrew just started not long ago. I would be interested to see some his tools that have been around for so many years. His Fat Finger tool is cool.

[glasshouse]

I think they mean the arbor press...

[Lynne Smith]

Well here we go again.
We are going to land up on this forum with most people too nervous to give good ideas or advice for fear of setting off the mother grundies in the group. I think that Andrew did a very generous thing. Is'nt it about time that those of you that are so sanctimonious found someone else's cause to fight for, like the homeless and the abused, and let the big boys (and girls) fight their own battles.
As for Sherry's chaos tutorial, one can of course never say for sure, but I think that the thread I started, in fact, sold far more of her tutorials than it ever did her any harm. I would be surprised it Sherry's tutorial is not one of the best sellers of tutorial's so far. It was a very good tutorial but then so was the jellyfish one.
People so often go after the good guys and then when they are getting attacked they say I've had enough of this. Well maybe the good guys who just came on here to help other have also had enough.
Just my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
I've got broad shoulders. I got lots of practise on the chaos thread.
Lynne S

[pittypat]

[pittypat]

The above message took a while to post. My best friend was here and reading this thread and insisted we look for a patent. I have Jim Moore's wonderful press, which on the side says Arbor Press, 1/2 ton, made in China(I sure don't like that last part!)

I always think historical data is interesting and maybe will answer a few questions.

"I am done with this subject. I've said what I meant, I've apologied for some things and to me, the subject is over.

Unfortunatly there are those of you that have to go on and on...."
__________________

[KristiB]

come ON... I never said Jim invented the arbor press. I don't think anyone has.

Please.. give it a rest.

Where is that dead horse smiley?

[ziggys]

Is it that we are afraid there is not enough to go around for everyone? Isn't that the mentality that causes many of the big problems in the world? We see a lack instead of abundance. I think there is plenty for everyone.
Angela

[ShellyD]

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

Well here we go again.
We are going to land up on this forum with most people too nervous to give good ideas or advice for fear of setting off the mother grundies in the group. I think that Andrew did a very generous thing. Is'nt it about time that those of you that are so sanctimonious found someone else's cause to fight for, like the homeless and the abused, and let the big boys (and girls) fight their own battles.

Lynne, you said exactly what I what I wanted to say and believe.

Some thoughts from me:

How is this artform going to grow if no one shares. And with all the goings on lately I don't blame anyone for not wanting to share.

These arguments are not only annoying but so SAD!!!! Give it up people. There is enough to go around.

and a bit off subject.

You people should be grateful for what you have. For people who love and support what you do. For all your bead shows that you have and the outlets you have to sell your beads and tools. For Paypal. For being able to sell on Ebay and Etsy hassle free. For Jewellery Designers who love and adore your work and BUY it. So for once PLEASE be thankful for what you have and stop worrying about others.

Life is way too short for all this pettiness!!!

[Andrew]

Hi KristiB

This is the last time i will bother is this the apology for me is it?

Andrew, you were only trying to help and I suppose I was more upset by everyone who was jumping on board to get you to make something like what was being sold. I had no idea that you had never seen Jim or anyone elses tool. Looks as though someone is marketing YOUR idea now!

If so then we must think differently about apologies if you think it is over then i will just give up as you are the one that brought it all up to start with. I still have no idea as to why you targetted me and what i actualy did apart from show a lady that asked were to get a 45 degree form. I will now unsuscribe from this thread and not return and hopefuly it will be removed with the rest of my material. I am sincerly sorry i have done what you seem to think that i have. I never set out to do anything but help people as that is what i like to do. I can not even stop myself from doing it and would even help you if you required it. Next time though i do something wrong in your eyes please just try a little diplomacy and give me a pm. I wish you greatest enjoyment in the greatest mediam around being glass.

Regards
Andrew Watherston.

[theglasszone]

Andrew~~

I pain to think that this is it for you here at LE - I hope you just mean that you are giving up on this thread! I also hope that with all the support you've received and the thanks and appreciation shown, you will consider sharing your warmth and ingenuity with us again in the future.

Take good care!
~DeAnne

[jojoy]

I hope you will stay Andrew, in my oppinion you are a true gentleman!

I normally will not react to these things, because I think some of these problems could have been adressed different.
I hope we all learn from this, and if someone has a problem with a post, PLEASE contact the person by PM first!
There is always time left to get nasty, try it the nice way first.

Jolanda

[Lynne Smith]

Originally Posted by Andrew

If so then we must think differently about apologies if you think it is over then i will just give up as you are the one that brought it all up to start with. I still have no idea as to why you targetted me and what i actualy did apart from show a lady that asked were to get a 45 degree form. I will now unsuscribe from this thread and not return and hopefuly it will be removed with the rest of my material. I am sincerly sorry i have done what you seem to think that i have. I never set out to do anything but help people as that is what i like to do. I can not even stop myself from doing it and would even help you if you required it. Next time though i do something wrong in your eyes please just try a little diplomacy and give me a pm. I wish you greatest enjoyment in the greatest mediam around being glass.

Regards
Andrew Watherston.

Now see what you people have done!!!!!!
Exactly what I am talking about. Andrew please don't leave this forum. We need generous, kind people like you to help people like me. Try not to be hurt by some of the people and rather concentrate on all the people who supported you.
Lynne S

[bgurden]

i really dont think that anyone is trashing andrew. i think copying advertantly or inadvertantly is a huge issue right now and his posting hit a nerve. its fortunate that we have this forum to hash things out and still be friends at the end of the day!

[Lynne Smith]

What happened to free enterprise. I thought that was all part of the American dream. If someone's product is good, and we all know that Jim Moore's tool are of a very high standard, they will survive. As they say, cream always floats to the top.
Lynne S

[ShellyD]

Originally Posted by bgurden

i really dont think that anyone is trashing andrew. i think copying advertantly or inadvertantly is a huge issue right now and his posting hit a nerve. its fortunate that we have this forum to hash things out and still be friends at the end of the day!

This might be really stupid question. Banging my head on a wall here. But seriousley how can one copy inadvertantly!!! I mean seriousley. You either copy blatantly or somehow two paths cross at the same place at a similar time or somewhere someone thought of something and someone on another continent/town/city/ whatever thought of it too. And in my books copying is taking something and making an EXACT copy of it. Sitting with the pic in front of you and colour for colour, bubble for bubble, whatever for whatever you sit there any you copy it. I'm sorry copying inadvertantly just does not sit well with me.

And it certainley doesn't mean because ALL of you know it exists that somebody else does!!! Geesh, give it up already. LE is certainley not the extent of the lampworking world because if it is, we're in SERIOUS trouble.

And will someone PLEEEEEEESE tell me why I even bother with these threads!!!

Will people please grow-up. My word............how many of you own a freaking fake snooty handbag for goodness sake. I just don't understand the lot of you.

[chrissij]

Originally Posted by ShellyD

My word............how many of you own a freaking fake snooty handbag for goodness sake.

Handbag's are for sissies...and snooty sissies are the worst.

[Lynne Smith]

Michelle, so well said. How wonderful to have all those things at our fingertips. To be able to buy dollar for dollar and not with our sad old rand. There are so few of us in South Africa and most of us live quite far from each other and all we really want to do is just learn as much as we can and to buy a little when we can scrape the money together. Something made of metal we could never buy and have it sent here so those ideas from Andrew are invaluable for us.
THANKS ANDREW
Lynne S

[Carmen Isaacs]

Well Michelle I am very glad to see that I am not alone when I had my "blonde moment" and couldn't understand what the fuss was about.
Jim's tools rock and I am one of the lucky ones to be able to own a few of them including this press.
It is very sad that Andrew will not post any tutorials again, he was such an asset to have on LE......."another one bites the dust"!

[J&M]

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

Now see what you people have done!!!!!!
Exactly what I am talking about. Andrew please don't leave this forum. We need generous, kind people like you to help people like me. Try not to be hurt by some of the people and rather concentrate on all the people who supported you.
Lynne S

I agree with you Lynne. It's so sad to see these arguments on this forum. I'm fairly new to posting in this community, but it's always turned me away from wanting to post because every time I come back here to give it another chance, I see it happening all over again. I'm sorry that you had to go through all of this crap Andrew. Good luck to you,

Jack

[Nicker]

Hummm there must be something in the water in Africa?

Kristi and Deanne here's another one for you!

[ShellyD]

Originally Posted by Nicker

Hummm there must be something in the water in Africa?

It's South Africa and it's good stuff, I'll tell you that.

For the most - we support each other, we want this artform to grow and we share when and where we can. If lampworking grows we grow and we do better and so it goes on. Thankfully the 'problem children' are few and far between.

We stand by each other, no matter what!!

[Lynne Smith]

[quote=Nicker;1966206]Hummm there must be something in the water in Africa?

There is - its called gratitude to the people like Andrew who help out the less fortunate amongst us. Those of us who can't travel to classes and buy the fancy equipment that we would love to have.
Lynne S