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  #271  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:19pm
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((((Donna)))))
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  #272  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:21pm
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Sorry, Carmen, I didn't even notice you and Lynne were both from South Africa. I don't usually do research on people before I respond to a post. I usually take what they have written for honest and have no reason to look past that. Perhaps I should. And I think I said, if you had read carefully, "for someone you know or agree with". As I said, I had no idea you were both from South Africa and even if I had I would never have made the determination that you both know each other. Actually, I know more glass beadmakers from around the world than I do in the South Florida area I live in.

The ETA was added when I read Lynne's response to the Happy New Year salutation from Amy and recalled the response earlier where someone had misunderstood Mary.


Well then with respect Pam you should have taken notice when I posted ( I included only that quote of yours) because I only commented on that part and only that part of your post. My post had nothing to do with agreeing with or knowing anybody it was just pointing out that Lynne had not said anything bad about Mary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynne Smith View Post
Thanks Aleta and Carmen.

If people could maybe just reread their posting before pushing the remit button maybe it would avoid some of the misunderstandings.
I admire Mary and her work tremendously but her last comment could very easily have been misconstrued. Rather write more than less to explain what one means. And because I have read and have seen a lot of Mary's work through the years I immediately thought to myself that she would'nt make a derogatory statement. But not everyone knows everyone else so sometimes things can be taken as they seem and not as they were meant.

Also the little sarcastic remarks and the smilies that follow really don't help the discussion.

Lynne S
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  #273  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:21pm
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Go for it. Sometimes I think that certain people think that they invented glassworking. They don't realize it's been done for hundreds of years before we existed. I'd say go for it. There is always some one looking for instructions on how to do what you already know.
Good luck.
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  #274  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:29pm
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and of course who is to say who will have the best tut ? Keeping others out of the
arena is just not good for the glass world.
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  #275  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:34pm
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Donna,

I am so sorry you feel the need to leave.

Sara
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  #276  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:40pm
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Donna - It's a shame that both you and Mary got into such a misunderstanding over two words "Control yourself." This is where having a little more time on the forum affords us . . . our knowledge of our peers. Truth is, if you have been around as long as some of us have, you would have "known" Mary a little bit and realized her "Control yourself" was not meant as derogatory. Yes, it was a bit short and could have easily come across as such, but you would have known that was not what she meant.

Believe me, I have done my share of misunderstanding! (Just ask Pam! lol!)

As for her defensive replies to your post . . . well let's say that we all tend to react rather strongly in situation where we thought we were being personally attacked. No I am not making excuses for her "slamming" you as you put it. But look at if from another perspective . . . you did the same to her just on two words she posted. Perhaps both of you can put this experience as a big misunderstanding and move on?

I hope that you will find it in your heart to stay with us. Despite the handful of threads recently, this forum is full of amazing talents, information, and most importantly, wonderful people who share your love for glass!
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  #277  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:46pm
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You know, Carmen, I guess I am just not understanding you. You said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
All her post does is make a suggestion as yours does to her.......do I see a bit of "double standards" yet again??
My response to you was the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
It's not a double standard, Carmen, as mine was a hopefully kind suggestion and meant in the very sincerest way. I sometimes think that if people would only do what makes them happy the world would be a better place. If you don't enjoy threads where people vociferously defend their opinons, then why go there? Why should she put herself in such health peril just to read a couple of threads when there are hundreds of others that could be read.

And honestly, your accusation of "double standards" is just that, a double standard. It's okay for someone you know or agree with to have an opinion, but not someone you don't agree with. So, who has the double standard?
After that I addressed someone else and then at the end added the ETA, which was not even addressed to you, but in general.

I am completely lost.
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  #278  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeadBlossoms View Post
Wow. I am truly stunned. I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding. As someone pointed out it's very difficult to judge the tone of someone's statements in print...Instead, it has taken my excitement and joy of lampworking away. I am just going to melt glass and learn on my own. I will no longer post or probably even lurk much anymore. I thought this list would be fun, but it most definitely is not...I can't even describe how devestated I feel after reading all of the posts after mine - I'm depressed, physically ill, and I am crying as I write. I'm very sorry I took it the wrong way, and sorry you felt I deserved the replying posts.
Donna!!!

Please don't go!!! I, too, have felt the horrible and painful crush of being lambasted and flogged when I was newer here...so full of excitement and creative energy - and when my unbridled enthusiasm put me in a similar position, I almost quit lampwork all together out of sheer fear!

I am not one of the "popular" "well known" or long-time glass workers; after posting my devastation and my contrite apology, I was bolstered by a few of the "seasoned vets" who wrote me privately to encourage me and support me - and I've slowly found my way back to confidence. I hope, too, that you will find the "good" in the greater percentage of LE members who are genuinely here to learn, teach and share.

When "emotion" gets injected into these type of (potentially) volatile threads, there are often hurt feelings and misunderstandings on both sides. Give it some time and know that some of us are here in the purest sense and I for one will look forward to helping, guiding and advising you any way I can in the future. If there are ever any questions or glass advice you have - now or any time -please don't hesitate to PM me and I'll do all I can to help and encourage you!

Hugs,
De in CA
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  #279  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:48pm
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Maybe this is a problem with editing posts, obviously something is lost somewhere along the way. Maybe you need to go back to my post 261 to see where this all started which was either before or after you edited your post I don't know and quite honestly at this point no longer care.

Last edited by Carmen Isaacs; 2009-01-04 at 12:53pm.
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  #280  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
Maybe this is a problem with editing posts, obviously something is lost somewhere along the way.
The newer(?) limitation on editing abilities seems to be a double-edged sword; nevertheless, maybe it will give everyone pause to double and triple "check" themselves before posting their replies, which can only be a good thing - right?

De
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  #281  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:54pm
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I agree and just proved a point by editing.
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  #282  
Old 2009-01-04, 12:57pm
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I really am so tired of this BS because people still seem to have forgotten the reason why this thread was started.....FEAR!
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  #283  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
Maybe this is a problem with editing posts, obviously something is lost somewhere along the way. Maybe you need to go back to my post 261 to see where this all started which was either before or after you edited your post I don't know and quite honestly at this point no longer care.
Carmen, if you look at the times on my post and yours, you will see that I edited my post exactly four minutes after I posted it. And I addressed the part that was edited by putting ETA, meaning edited to add. Your post came approximately one hour after my editing, actually 59 minutes. So I guess I am still lost. And I went back to your post 261 before I posted the last time, and now again at your instructions, to try to understand what you were getting at. I guess I just don't understand.

And as to you making your point, I am still not sure what the point is. And what has FEAR to do with what you and I are discussing? This has absolutely nothing to do with fear. And what BS? Again, I just don't get it.
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  #284  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
I really am so tired of this BS because people still seem to have forgotten the reason why this thread was started.....FEAR!
ummm...I believe that Pyro was asking if she should do a tutorial on her God/Goddess beads.

but that is what I perceived to be the question.

Sara
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  #285  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
I really am so tired of this BS because people still seem to have forgotten the reason why this thread was started.....FEAR!
Read my post again .......there is no reference to you in it Pam so why should it have anything to do with you???
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  #286  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:24pm
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro Beads View Post
I have been wanting to do a tut on my god and goddess beads, but after reading some of the comments in here I have to admid that I am afraid to. How I learned to do these beads I am not sure. I just wanted to make life-like god and goddess beads for a bike-ralley I was doing. Did I see a tut on these??? I know there are some out there and I have looked at them but they look nothing like mine.... so does that mean that I came up with them myself or did I steal some one's design or idea??? How do I find out??? If I make mine to look totally different, but use some of the same steps to create these does that mean I'm stealing from them?

As far as goddess beads go if you do a search on them you will find hundreds in different styles, ect..... they have been around for years......

any help would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe you all need to read her question again. She mentions she is "afraid" in case you miss that!!
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  #287  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:28pm
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Ladies!!!

Maybe you should take your needs to "clarify" your posts to PM. No offense, but it seems to have become a personal debate and I think it's better handled and worked out between you in private rather than in this public thread! Please?

I really think it will help the thread stay on task...

De in CA
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  #288  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:30pm
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When I asked this question I didn't mean to start any fights, I feel as if that is all I have done and a lot of people have gotten hurt because of it. That was not what I was trying to do. A lot of people have said a lot of great things and some not so great. To be honest there have been a lot of things posted that just totally confused me. I keep trying to figure out what they have to do with the question I asked in the first place. I am also trying to decide if posting other questions if worth the chance that it might start this all over again.

I just don't get it. For all of you have been upset or hurt I am truely sorry.

For all of you who have answered my question... thank you. I appreciate it.

And I am not the kind of person who cannot handle conflict. I like it when people are straight to the point, that is how I am. I believe if you're ticked about something, say it and be done with it, don't keep making little jabs here and there. At least if you say it straight then people know exactly what you are feeling and thinking. I know I'm not the brightest person, but I found a lot of this so confuseing!!!

If any one out there is all worked up about some of these post you can aways come here and help me shovel the 2 feet of snow I have piled on my deck... it's only -14 right now with wind chills of -30. That will help you cool off fast!!
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  #289  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:37pm
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Yes Carmen, that is her exact words.

And I said "this is what I perceived..."

See how different people read into the same post? You see it as fear, I see it as she is doing her homework and asking a question.

Sara
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  #290  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro Beads View Post
... For all of you who have answered my question... thank you. I appreciate it...If any one out there is all worked up about some of these post you can aways come here and help me shovel the 2 feet of snow I have piled on my deck... it's only -14 right now with wind chills of -30. That will help you cool off fast!!
That you've gotten some real answers to your inquiry, and still that you asked in the first place...

That you're so friggin' cold and wish I could come over and help! I love So. Cal, but no snow and it sounds like fun - for at least a couple hours!

I still think your tutorial idea, with the suggestions I've "championed" earlier, will be great! I'd love to learn to do the Male Torso...hope it all works out for you!

Hugs to you - try and stay warm...and creative!!!
De in CA
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  #291  
Old 2009-01-04, 1:58pm
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I apologize, Carmen. Since you had been addressing me for a period of time, I thought this was a continuation.

Pyro, I'm so sorry that your thread has been derailed so many times. I think you have, though, received some very interesting advice and, since you showed so much concern that you asked to begin with, I have confidence you will make the right decisions for you, and that's all that really matters in the end. Good luck, and never be afraid to ask questions. Even though a lot of people have taken exception to advice you were given and took the thread in different directions, I think only good things were directed toward you.

Again, good luck.
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  #292  
Old 2009-01-04, 2:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
I apologize, Carmen. Since you had been addressing me for a period of time, I thought this was a continuation.

Pyro, I'm so sorry that your thread has been derailed so many times. I think you have, though, received some very interesting advice and, since you showed so much concern that you asked to begin with, I have confidence you will make the right decisions for you, and that's all that really matters in the end. Good luck, and never be afraid to ask questions. Even though a lot of people have taken exception to advice you were given and took the thread in different directions, I think only good things were directed toward you.

Again, good luck.
Thanks Pam, apology accepted and I meant no disrespect in my posting to you and if it came across as that I to apologize because that was not my intention.

As for the rest of this post I totally agree with you.
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  #293  
Old 2009-01-04, 2:10pm
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Carmen, I did not take any of your posts as disrespectful at all. It was a conversation we were having and that's all.
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  #294  
Old 2009-01-04, 4:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeadBlossoms View Post
Wow. I am truly stunned. I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding.

Me too!

As someone pointed out it's very difficult to judge the tone of someone's statements in print. I felt very stung and upset by Moth's response to my post.

And how do you think I felt about yours? LOL I posted 2 words that you took wrong and completely handed me my ass on a platter. You posted a complete paragraph slamming me and I'm not allowed to get upset?

I rarely post because of all the animosity on a lot of these threads. I apologize if I took it the wrong way. And no, I don't know you Moth. But you don't know me either. So, for my mistake you slammed me in posts that cut to the quick.

Isn't that what you did to me, too? Sure felt like it.

My mistake was that grave that I get a public flogging?

Well, I think it is funny that for my mistake you could flog me...but turnabout isn't fair play.

Twice? But, as you pointed out, we don't know each other, you don't know who I am. Would you have had the same response if someone you knew made the same response? Probably not. Usually I see "oh, you took it the wrong way!" or "I didn't mean it like you took it" when it's between the "well knowns". So there is a double standard whether the artists choose to believe it or not- if you are not one of the "popular" or well established people on this list you get exactly what was given out to me on my response. And by the way? It's easy to say afterwards how you meant a comment-there's no way of knowing how it was intended when it was first written.

So now your response is to call me a liar. That is sweet. If you went back and read any of my other posts, you would see that I've been supporting a 'you can't control anyone but yourself...quit trying to control other people' platform all along. I'm sorry you don't believe that my post was simply a continuation of that sentiment. Control yourself...it's not hard. That was all I meant, but you can choose not to believe that if you want...again, I can't control you, you can only control yourself.

But you sure got your knickers in a twist when I "misunderstood", huh? And came out with guns ablazing to school me in what happpens when a "nobody" dares to say something to a "somebody".

I wasn't schooling you about what happens when a nobody says something to a somebody. I never even know when I'm a somebody and when I'm not. I was defending my own actions after you slammed me for something I didn't even say. You took it the wrong way, it was my fault for not wording it correctly, but you sure got your knickers in a twist too. I didn't say one negative thing about you personally.

I said you don't know me. I said you didn't read any of my other posts in regards to the 'control youself' comment. I said your attack of me sucked.

You said plenty of negative about ME though...deliberately too I might add.

You said I was nasty. You said I can't reply with respect. You said I need to learn how to control myself and respect others. The whole tone of your post was hurtful. All I did was reply to that, and STILL did not say one negative thing against your character...only your actions.


And, FYI, I'll tell you who I am. I'm a 49 year women married to the love of my life for 25 years, and mother of two great kids. I was laid off from my dream job in July, and decided to take up lampworking to keep me busy. I've adored and bought so many of these great beads, I wanted to know more about it. It was suggested to me to join this group a few months ago, as a way of learning and absorbing the talent of great artists who I am in awe of.

Instead, it has taken my excitement and joy of lampworking away. I am just going to melt glass and learn on my own. I will no longer post or probably even lurk much anymore. I thought this list would be fun, but it most definitely is not.

Well, lately it really hasn't been all fun, but I've done my best to be constructive in the threads that seem to turn to bash fests so often so you can imagine that it REALLY stung when after all the effort someone accuses me of exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to be.

I stayed away from reading this post for a few days because I was so upset. I wish I had stayed away all together. I can't even describe how devestated I feel after reading all of the posts after mine - I'm depressed, physically ill, and I am crying as I write. I'm very sorry I took it the wrong way, and sorry you felt I deserved the replying posts.

And I'm sorry you felt I deserved yours.
Donna,

I think that this is not the way either of us usually communicate with people. I think we have both been caught in a whirlwind of emotions and misunderstood words.

I honestly, sincerely would never have responded to your post with sarcasm or disrespect. That is just not how I roll. But your post really did hurt and I came out kicking, you got that part right. Please note though that I really never did call you names or say you are nasty or anything else. Your kneejerk reaction to me, was just as bad as my kneejerk reaction was to you.

I didn't lambaste you or take you to school or try to teach you a lesson. I'm not trying to run you off the forum or make it an unpleasant place for you. I was just not going to sit here and let you call me nasty and disrespectful when I'm not and that has nothing to do with who either of us IS or isn't.

I've taken forum breaks myself, when people have been ugly to me or I've felt the need just to draw into myself for a while and get away from it all, but seriously...this is usually a good place and I hope you don't leave on my account.

I apologize for my part in the whole thing. I never in a million years would have guessed that 2 words could cause such a ruckus. If I hurt you, I am sorry.

~~Mary

Pyro, I am also very sorry for posting this whole thing in your thread, but I couldn't NOT respond to Donna's post. The whole thing is here in public, so I think my apology needed to be as well. I hope you got all the input your needed about your tutorial and that you have fun with it.
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