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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #31  
Old 2009-11-17, 2:36pm
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yeah, I could set it to go from 960 to 925 - I may try that
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  #32  
Old 2009-11-17, 2:38pm
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Good luck, I hope it works for you!
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  #33  
Old 2009-11-17, 2:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
But that's what I'm saying, Kalera. ALL glass lines have an issue at some point. That particular issue had a workaround that someone figured out and shared. That's the way it should be. Sharing info and providing feedback so that other users can learn and the manufacturer can take the info and make a better product.

(And someone elso posted in the same thread that one color cracked no matter what they used to encase it, including BE clear.)

The other thing I forgot to say about BE having issues is that they test every batch in-house to make sure it's compatible, and if they did let a color get through that had compatibility or any other issues, they recall it, and replace it or give you a refund. Or even if you just plain think it's ugly. This is one of the reasons many people recommend them to people who are frustrated with compatibility issues in other glass.

I didn't intend to derail this thread, I'm sorry. I just wanted to defend my recommendation for a fairly trouble-free glass, as I stand by it quite firmly.
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  #34  
Old 2009-11-17, 2:47pm
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Aw, Karin~

Sorry to hear about your cracking problems...hope you get to the bottom of it soon! I'm surprised that for whatever reason (kiln temp, annealing schedule, location of the moon, etc.) some people have problems with some glass and some do not. Because of inconsistencies that just can't be perfectly pin-pointed (batching, odds, formula changes and so on) - and it seems no matter the manufacturer, there ARE inconsistencies - these things just HAPPEN from time to time.

I've sure had my share of "mysterious" and strangely inexplicable crack problems - even when others are using the same glass, color combos, annealing schedules - it's mystifying! Argh...I feel your pain!

And as far as the issues of this glass being cheap or inclined to have problems because of where it's made, how it's made, who made it and so forth, this is how I feel about that issue (screw the dead horse - it's time to say how I REALLY FEEL):

Fire up your torches and prepare to flame my rear!

Sorry...but I'm fed up and really, it's not helping IMHO to speak derogatorily of a product that is generally good - and has been proven as such - simply because it's a low cost product or because of political reasons relating to it's manufacturing location! It may be circumstantial specific to SOMETHING that's happening with Karin and talking trash about the product doesn't seem to be the way to help her out.

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  #35  
Old 2009-11-17, 2:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
I made a set of eight encased beads out of that same (Antique Rose) color a year ago and just sold it, no cracks, so I'm guessing it's a kiln temp issue for them as well.

BE is a very thoroughly tested and troubleshot product. It's a known quantity. So if users want a glass that's a known quantity, it's a good choice. If users don't mind messing with something that's less well-known and potentially less reliable, that's fine, but I'm not going to stop singing the praises of a glass that I love when someone expresses dismay at having problems with another glass.

If people have troubleshooting advice fr the OP, they should post it, and not try to stop others either from venting or from suggesting glass they're partial to.
I don't think anyone said to stop suggesting or singing the praises of other glass. The point people are trying to make is the ridiculous attacks on this glass need to stop (but we all know they won't). I don't see anyone attacking Precision or DoubleHelix (or BE) when there is a problem with those lines (saying things like throw it out or don't use it, it's crap). They figure it out with troubleshooting and tip sharing.

I like BE. I love Urorobos and all of the furnace lines. In fact, I gave up 104 (sold it all) and switched to 96 years ago because it's just that awesome. I just recently started using the 104 again when Devardi came out because I wanted to test some of the colors. If people don't like Devardi, then they shouldn't use it. If they've never even tried it, then it's like Saturday morning cartoons used to say. "Don't knock it til you've tried it." If we don't test the glass and provide feedback, how can it ever improve?
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  #36  
Old 2009-11-17, 3:52pm
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Hi Shawnette, First let me say that I have a lot of respect for you as an artist and I don't have a problem with anyone electing to use Devardi if they are making that decision with all the facts in place, which you obviously are. I think what happened in this thread is that people started trying to help and then Devardi users came in to say what a wonderful glass it is, etc., etc. I think at that point it is important to let people who have no knowledge of this glass know that it is not this "wonderful new glass", but rather a glass that is known for having certain propensities, much more so than usual for first quality glass. So, perhaps if those using Devardi would be more objective in their appraisal of the glass, then others won't feel the need to chime in and give their points of view.

Also, I just have to say, using the name Devardi and comparing it in any way to BE is really just blasphemy, but then you know how I feel about BE.
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  #37  
Old 2009-11-17, 4:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Hi Shawnette, First let me say that I have a lot of respect for you as an artist and I don't have a problem with anyone electing to use Devardi if they are making that decision with all the facts in place, which you obviously are. I think what happened in this thread is that people started trying to help and then Devardi users came in to say what a wonderful glass it is, etc., etc. I think at that point it is important to let people who have no knowledge of this glass know that it is not this "wonderful new glass", but rather a glass that is known for having certain propensities, much more so than usual for first quality glass. So, perhaps if those using Devardi would be more objective in their appraisal of the glass, then others won't feel the need to chime in and give their points of view.

Also, I just have to say, using the name Devardi and comparing it in any way to BE is really just blasphemy, but then you know how I feel about BE.
Thanks Pam. That's a great compliment coming from you.

You are absolutely correct about people being honest and if you go back and read the first posts, no one was saying "what a wonderful new glass" Devardi is. All of the initial responders talked about cracking issues and our experience (or non-experience) with them. It was the Devardi bashers who came in with nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

Lol. Squid brought up BE, though. Not me. It's true, there's no comparison between the 2.
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  #38  
Old 2009-11-17, 4:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
I don't think anyone said to stop suggesting or singing the praises of other glass. The point people are trying to make is the ridiculous attacks on this glass need to stop (but we all know they won't). I don't see anyone attacking Precision or DoubleHelix (or BE) when there is a problem with those lines (saying things like throw it out or don't use it, it's crap). They figure it out with troubleshooting and tip sharing.

I like BE. I love Urorobos and all of the furnace lines. In fact, I gave up 104 (sold it all) and switched to 96 years ago because it's just that awesome. I just recently started using the 104 again when Devardi came out because I wanted to test some of the colors. If people don't like Devardi, then they shouldn't use it. If they've never even tried it, then it's like Saturday morning cartoons used to say. "Don't knock it til you've tried it." If we don't test the glass and provide feedback, how can it ever improve?
I didn't anything against Devardi in this thread. I just sincerely seconded Squid's (tongue in cheek) statement about BE being a more reliably trouble-free glass, albeit one with a higher price tag. That is all, but then I found myself feeling that I needed to defend BE.

And then I suggested that possibly upping the annealing temp might help the OP with Devardi as well as with the cracking issue Squid had with BE.
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  #39  
Old 2009-11-17, 4:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
I didn't anything against Devardi in this thread. I just sincerely seconded Squid's (tongue in cheek) statement about BE being a more reliably trouble-free glass, albeit one with a higher price tag. That is all, but then I found myself feeling that I needed to defend BE.

And then I suggested that possibly upping the annealing temp might help the OP with Devardi as well as with the cracking issue Squid had with BE.
I know you weren't attacking Devardi and I wasn't referring to you or anyone else in this thread specifically. I was speaking in general terms. (and I know Squidly was being funny, hence the stick pokey smiley.) Honestly, you really don't need to defend BE. They're a top of the line company and their reputation and quality speaks for itself. If i hadn't fallen so deeply in love with Uroboros Black, I'd be a BE groupie, too.
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Last edited by shawnette; 2009-11-17 at 4:57pm.
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  #40  
Old 2009-11-17, 6:18pm
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When I first started using Devardi, I experienced some cracking issues. Then I realized I was using too hot a flame. I reduced the flame as stated on the Devardi website, and I worked the glass much cooler. I have no cracking problems anymore to speak of. I suspect Karin made the same mistake. I have made many beads now with Devardi and I just don’t have problems with it. It works great. On the Devardi website there are videos that show you how to use the glass cooler, and also how to successfully combine and encase the glass with Moretti and silver glasses and other brands. I’ve combined and encased Devardi with a number of brands with no problem. Just keep the flame cooler.
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  #41  
Old 2009-11-17, 7:39pm
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When I first started using Devardi, I experienced some cracking issues. Then I realized I was using too hot a flame. I reduced the flame as stated on the Devardi website, and I worked the glass much cooler. I have no cracking problems anymore to speak of. I suspect Karin made the same mistake. I have made many beads now with Devardi and I just donít have problems with it. It works great. On the Devardi website there are videos that show you how to use the glass cooler, and also how to successfully combine and encase the glass with Moretti and silver glasses and other brands. Iíve combined and encased Devardi with a number of brands with no problem. Just keep the flame cooler.
That doesn't even make sense to me - why would have you to keep it cool to keep it from CRACKING? I can understand to keep it from devitting or doing other funky things, but I don't understand how too much heat could change the compatibility of the glass
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  #42  
Old 2009-11-17, 8:05pm
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I don't understand this either, I've been using Devardi for awhile now and I don't have any more issues with this glass than any other I've used. My encased beads are just fine. I use ivory silver stringer, 96 frits, of the several beads I've had crack I think it was me gawking at the bead to long. I work on a HotHead with propane, and don't have the firepower to burn the snot out of this glass. It says right on the Devardi website not to cook the hell out of this glass. I have worked with most of the colors, I warm my rods, and anneal my beads at 960 in my Chili Pepper. I've read a ton of posts about cracking beads and Lauscha. Never used it, Never gonna. I have about the same success rate as Sonja. I know I haven't lost more than 3 or 4 rods myself to shattering, and no more cracked Devardi beads, than any other line of glass. I'm making big whoppin focal beads, and I really work it long in the flame. You'd think I'd be having all sorts of problems, and I'm not.
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  #43  
Old 2009-11-17, 8:27pm
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Lauscha makes a yummy clear, and if it works for you, you don't ever want to change. I love my lauscha clear-and the beads I made with the devardi white and semi-opaque white + furnace glass frits have been fine.

I don't tend to use the reds/pink furnace glass with 104 coe glass, though, because I have had horrid luck with those in the past, and I read something here that suggested they didn't have the lead content that some of the other colors do, making them less likely to mix well.

I also tend to lay down a little clear of the same kind I plan to encase with when using reds, yellows, and oranges as a base-for one it stretches the usually more expensive "hot" colors in the moretti line, and two, because some of those tend to not like to be encased unless you do this.
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  #44  
Old 2009-11-17, 9:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette View Post
I know you weren't attacking Devardi and I wasn't referring to you or anyone else in this thread specifically. I was speaking in general terms. (and I know Squidly was being funny, hence the stick pokey smiley.) Honestly, you really don't need to defend BE. They're a top of the line company and their reputation and quality speaks for itself. If i hadn't fallen so deeply in love with Uroboros Black, I'd be a BE groupie, too.

Uroboros is gorgeous stuff, too... I feel that! I sent all last week melting my 96.

I get you now; I just wanted to make sure I was being clear about my intentions.
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  #45  
Old 2009-11-18, 6:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Devardi is not really new on the market. It's been here before.

Here is a quote from a post from 2002. "It's cheap glass, made in India and is full of bubbles, explodes easily and frequently, and devitrifies when you look at it. It seemed like a good idea when I wanted to start out, because it was cheap, but IF it was a good idea it was because it takes a huge amount of perseverence to stick with lampworking when the glass is as tough to work with as this stuff is. Search the archives and you'll find out more than you want to know. Some of the stuff actually has little impurities (I believe someone once referred to them as small stones) in the rods. Like I said earlier, the rods actually had a greasy, oily feel to them when I dug them out this past weekend."

Another one from 2002.
Q.I got some glass rods from India. They are soft (though very shocky). Has anyone used glass from India, and if so, approximately what COE do you think it was?
A. the COE is *approximately* 104. They are *supposed* to be compatible with Moretti. However, you can take that with a large grain of salt. I have some (bought a sampler when they hit the scene).....I still have almost all of it. It's just too much of a pain to work with. Sure, it costs less, but it's no savings when it goes flying about the room or cracks, or some of the other evil things it does (just my not so humble opinion).

I could go on, but I won't. Sounds like it has improved since 2002 though.

Hello,
I have talked with Daniel many times about the company that manufactures Devardi Glass. I was told this company never made glass rods for export before he purchased from them. I do not think it is fair to make the above statements, and "Quotes," without knowing the facts.
From the beginning of Devardi Glass, it has been like watching a baby seal being clubbed to death. Maybe that is a little dramatic, but it is just how I feel. If you throw enough mud out there, some of it "might" stick.
This is just not fair to two good people, trying to start a business and make a living.
I know the company Daniel and Natasha is purchasing glass from, is very impressed with the sales of their thriving small business. They have increased their purchases greatly with each and every order. They are shipping glass to many countries. Customers are ordering two and three times. Yes, repeat orders. Many colors are sold out before they can be offered to the general public. It should tell you, the ones that have never used the glass but are so quick to put it down, "We like it".
Nothing is wrong with coming on this thread, or any other, and discussing the "good or the bad" about Devardi Glass. But, it is wrong to make unfounded accusations that could possibly hurt someone's business and reputation. Why? I am so curious. Is it worth it? If I was a well respected member of this community, I don't think so.
Jim Clark
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  #46  
Old 2009-11-18, 7:32am
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Jim, as I pointed out in my post, seems the glass has improved since 2002. And in my opinion it would also be unfair to describe this glass as a better glass than others on the market.
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  #47  
Old 2009-11-18, 7:57am
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Quote:
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Jim, as I pointed out in my post, seems the glass has improved since 2002. And in my opinion it would also be unfair to describe this glass as a better glass than others on the market.
Pam, The only relationship this glass has with the glass imported in 2002 is that they both are made in India. The manufacturers like what Daniel and Natasha have done with the glass, so they have chemists working on new glass, lusters, silver, and others, and the quality has improved with each shipment, and I am told it will in the future, by using larger crucibles and larger kilns. The company is listening to customers.
I don't see that many users of Devardi glass are comparing it with Bullseye or Uroboros. They have excellent quality control and their glass is great. I don't think that is the point here.
I know Daniel could take the time to pull all first quality rods and charge a much higher price for them, especially the premium colors. His marketing strategy is his - put it all out there - make it and keep it simple - all at one price. Would I have done this if I was retailing glass rods? Probably not. But, I cannot argue with their success. It amazes me to see how many thousands of pounds of glass are being shipped with each new shipment. And, they still have to time to respond to anyone, by email or phone, that needs them or advise about their product. Their customer service is stellar.
No, this is not about comparing Devardi to Bullseye or Uroboros. Many of us do not want to pay $30.00 to $50.00 a pound for glass, especially in this economy. Many of us are ordering this glass, also, because we like many of the working properties. Yes, I have and do use some Bullseye and I have worked with Uroborus. Both, fantastic glasses.
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  #48  
Old 2009-11-18, 8:55am
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Sorry, Jim, I guess you missed the point entirely. Oh, well, never mind.
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  #49  
Old 2009-11-18, 9:03am
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Sorry, Jim, I guess you missed the point entirely. Oh, well, never mind.
Pam, Was your point that this glass has improved since 2002? You could compare the two, but it is not made by the same company.
We have all established that Devardi does not have the quality control of Bullseye or Uroborus.
So, what is your point?
Jim
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  #50  
Old 2009-11-18, 9:50am
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Hi together,

thanks for your replies!

Well I did not encase the trans. black ... I encased the clear with it.

Shawnette I think it was probably Vetrofond clear. Hmmm... must confess I'm not very sure, it also could be Moretti, but tend more to Vetrofond. If the cracks were there right after the kiln ...oh well... but after months??
I better use that glass only for spacers in future.

Working that glass cooler is only because of the bubbles and "scum", I don't think that it's got to do something with cracking.

OK, thank you all
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  #51  
Old 2009-11-18, 10:17am
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Sorry to hear about your cracking issues. I have a bunch of pieces (maybe 2 or 3 dozen) that I made with Devardi, by itself and in combo with other glasses, that I've kept in my studio for the express purpose of seeing if they will crack. I made them back in March or early April, I believe. I've dropped them on concrete and done the "freezer test" and they're still just fine. I've haven't been able to try the dichro yet, but I'm gonna give it a try soon.

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  #52  
Old 2009-11-18, 12:04pm
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I find it very odd that you would even be using this glass, Karin. Last year you did nothing but trash the glass. And now you start this thread with more negativity. Why, after all your intense opposition to the glass a year ago would you go ahead and use it? And why would you start an entire thread based on your (alleged) negative results when there are other viable threads to discuss the glass. It seems to me you are just up to your old tricks. You are still just trying to hurt the owners of Devardi Glass. Pretty sad.
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  #53  
Old 2009-11-18, 12:18pm
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I find it very odd that you would even be using this glass, Karin. Last year you did nothing but trash the glass. And now you start this thread with more negativity. Why, after all your intense opposition to the glass a year ago would you go ahead and use it? And why would you start an entire thread based on your (alleged) negative results when there are other viable threads to discuss the glass. It seems to me you are just up to your old tricks. You are still just trying to hurt the owners of Devardi Glass. Pretty sad.

Just curious.....how would you know what happened "last year"? You just joined in August.
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  #54  
Old 2009-11-18, 12:26pm
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Just curious.....how would you know what happened "last year"? You just joined in August.
I'm thinking multiple accounts myself.....like three.
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  #55  
Old 2009-11-18, 12:26pm
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squid squid is offline
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yeah, I think it's pretty obvious who "Firemagic" is.
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  #56  
Old 2009-11-18, 12:38pm
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theglasszone theglasszone is offline
I speak Murrini!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid View Post
yeah, I think it's pretty obvious who "Firemagic" is.
I'm dense! But I'd love to know...even in PM please! I prefer to "know thine friends and..." well, you know!

De
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  #57  
Old 2009-11-18, 1:49pm
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Leslie Dana Leslie Dana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drafly View Post
It amazes me to see how many thousands of pounds of glass are being shipped with each new shipment.
I am curious , how would you know how many pounds of glass are being shipped if your NOT part of this company ?

Why use a glass that has documented serious problems because it is cheap ? I would never want to sell anything made from Devardi if some time down the road the beads will crack ! This is apart from the issue of working conditions etc .

Just my take on this !!
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  #58  
Old 2009-11-18, 2:01pm
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gubnavnania gubnavnania is offline
I need more boro stuff
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid View Post
yeah, I think it's pretty obvious who "Firemagic" is.
My brain really doesn't working atm
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  #59  
Old 2009-11-18, 2:10pm
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J&M J&M is offline
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I'm with De on this. I haven't a clue either.

You don't have to be a member to "lurk" at these postings do you? Just curious.

Jack
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  #60  
Old 2009-11-18, 3:02pm
likes to make glass stuff likes to make glass stuff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliedana1 View Post
I am curious , how would you know how many pounds of glass are being shipped if your NOT part of this company ?

Why use a glass that has documented serious problems because it is cheap ? I would never want to sell anything made from Devardi if some time down the road the beads will crack ! This is apart from the issue of working conditions etc .

Just my take on this !!
They say so in their newsletters.

Devardi doesn't have "documented serious problems".

Many other, FAR more expensive glasses have loads of threads about problems. I use one of those glasses-lauscha clear. Silver glass? Odd lots? "Frit on a stick" didn't originate from devardi.

If you use anything other than BE, you are risking eventual problems with your beads. Or you only make one color beads.

I've been using some of their colors for months-not much bead making time, but I've used it regularly when I had time. I've ordered 3 times from them. I keep getting more of the semi-opaque white because I love it.

I did go back over some more of my beads-devardi semi opaque white with devardi trans olive (both tonalities) and trans purple (lovely grape shade). I made them in June. Still whole. I actually posted in the other thread saying I played with the olive when I did it. I was thinking late summer.

some of their colors are unlike anything else in the 104 palette. Have you seen the peach? The browns? All of these lovely translucent colors? Transparent grape purple?
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