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  #1  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:31am
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Smile M-10 and M-20 oxy concentrator feild testing thread... whatcha doing with yours?

Well, I kind of though we hijacked enough threads talking about these units. Let's put it all in one thread where it can make sense, evolve and hopefully we can provide eachother and the company with some good feedback.


I set up two M-20's last night to run a Cuda. During the first little while, I must admit I was unsure. I didn't have a bottle hooked up and I was a little scared. It was a nervous energy. First I tried to crank the units... I mean come on. Who wouldn't? I had them set at about 10 LPM each. For some reason I had it in my head that these were capable of 20, so I'm only at 50% right... wrong. They are 20 PSI and 10 LPM, so once I got my head screwed on straight, I remembered the plan and why I have two. I backed them off and set them at 7-8 each... my torch liked that much better. I started to level out and feel the hummmmmm of the machines. They are quiet. Every once in a while, the go psssss ever so softly. They are baby oxygen dragons and they snore for you every once in a while. LOL

Ok, so now for the day after results... The Triple Passion I worked came out very nice. I like the look of it better than with the GTT and bottles. I was able to have a tiny bit of haze and encase it or not have any at all. It was cool and definitely different than what I'm used to. The set up is plenty hot enough to work small to medium boro. I'm not planning any 3" marbles right now anyway. I will throw it up on one of the lathes and give it a run on some thicker rod... should I start with the 44MM?

Which one are you running and what's it powering? Do you like it? Do you not like it? Let's have an open honest discussion from the end users.
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  #2  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:58am
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I'm using an M-10 with a Mini cc torch and I love it. I don't have anything to compare it to since all of this is new to me and this is the only torch and only concentrator I've ever used other than the Minor and tank oxy at school, but I don't have any complaints with my set-up.

It's very quiet. Wish I could say the same for that jet engine fan I'm using! Mmm...what else? I'm only working with soft glass. I don't know if I'd be able to melt boro using this concentrator or not.

Lil
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  #3  
Old 2006-03-11, 7:49am
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I can't wait to get mine (my two M-20s, that is). I will spend a couple days with them and then post some opinions. I've worked Boro and soft glass with many configurations in the last year:

Nortel Minor on one oxycon
Nortel Minor on two oxycons (total of 8-10LPM)
Nortel Minor on bottled O2
GTT Lynx on two oxycons (total of 8-10LPM)
GTT Lynx on Bottled O2
GTT Lynx on Integra-10
GTT Lynx on Integra-10 & 5 LPM oxycon
GTT Phantom on two oxycons (pathetic)
GTT Phantom on compressed O2 (awesome!)

And soon, a GTT Phantom on two M-20s.

My plan is to do a bit of a critique as well as post pictures. Stand by . . . . .

Brad
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  #4  
Old 2006-03-11, 8:59am
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I'll also be trying these on a Cheetah next week. Will let you know how that set up performs.
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  #5  
Old 2006-03-11, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
I'll also be trying these on a Cheetah next week. Will let you know how that set up performs.
This I would love to know!
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  #6  
Old 2006-03-11, 1:58pm
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Lisa, I will definitely let you know.
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  #7  
Old 2006-03-11, 2:56pm
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So, I am understanding this is giving you 100% of the power you had before with your lynx torch on either tanked or liquid oxy? Hmmm, might be an option for me to think about. I could stick with tanked for the outer fire of the delta, and then use something like this to fire the Lynx section which is what I seem to use about 90% of the time. I am still considering liquid, but I really don't want to freak out the neighbors, or my insurance company since they are ok with the compressed oxy tanks right now.

However, there is a guy on the block who is into rocketry, so between the two of us we might get the whole block re-zoned: Little Baghdad USA! (And we aren't talking your little rockets here, we are talking the ones that you actually have to file flight plans with the FAA about.)

Eric
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  #8  
Old 2006-03-11, 3:29pm
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Mr Smiley, Are you saying it takes 2 [M-20s] to properly run a Barracuda because you mainly use boro? My husband just made the oyxen tank replacement trip this morning. I keep two big ones on hand and both were empty. He was [again] asking when I thought I'd get a concentrator. I keep putting it off because of the initial expense. Would I have to have 2 of them to run my Cuda for soft glass?
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  #9  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:00pm
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Jennifer, I can't really answer that for ya. JC runs one M-20 and says she loves it for her Cuda. She does soft and boro. I think it would be under powered for me to have just one.

Eric, it's not just like tanked O2. It's definitely close enough for what I do. I haven't had a problem yet anyway. I got two, so I could run them in the range where their purity is best... The new Cyclones may be just what you are looking for. We'll have to wait and see I guess. Your neighborhood sounds fun!
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  #10  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e. mort
So, I am understanding this is giving you 100% of the power you had before with your lynx torch on either tanked or liquid oxy? Hmmm, might be an option for me to think about. I could stick with tanked for the outer fire of the delta, and then use something like this to fire the Lynx section which is what I seem to use about 90% of the time. I am still considering liquid, but I really don't want to freak out the neighbors, or my insurance company since they are ok with the compressed oxy tanks right now.

However, there is a guy on the block who is into rocketry, so between the two of us we might get the whole block re-zoned: Little Baghdad USA! (And we aren't talking your little rockets here, we are talking the ones that you actually have to file flight plans with the FAA about.)

Eric
Little Baghdad USA, very cool post! You may be a pioneer in this field. This is the first time I have heard of someone talking about using bottle oxygen along with a concentrator. May be the secret to conserving bottle o2 and still getting the results you are looking for. By the way, youre not giving o2 to the "Rocket Man" are you? lol jack
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  #11  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxydoc
Little Baghdad USA, very cool post! You may be a pioneer in this field. This is the first time I have heard of someone talking about using bottle oxygen along with a concentrator. May be the secret to conserving bottle o2 and still getting the results you are looking for. By the way, youre not giving o2 to the "Rocket Man" are you? lol jack
Jack,

Using a concentrator with a bottle is becoming a widely accepted practice. Some torches have two or more independent rings of fire. On torches with four studs, each "fire" has it's own set of oxygen and propane inlets. The center fire is what most people use for small to medium sized stuff and detail work, and then they kick on the outer fire to work bigger stuff, or to get more heat for whatever reason.

Anyway, some people will run the center fire on a concentrator and the outer fire on a tank (or another concentrator, depending on how much oxygen it needs).

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  #12  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster
Jack,

Using a concentrator with a bottle is becoming a widely accepted practice. Some torches have two or more independent rings of fire. On torches with four studs, each "fire" has it's own set of oxygen and propane inlets. The center fire is what most people use for small to medium sized stuff and detail work, and then they kick on the outer fire to work bigger stuff, or to get more heat for whatever reason.

Anyway, some people will run the center fire on a concentrator and the outer fire on a tank (or another concentrator, depending on how much oxygen it needs).
That is very cool stuff. I would love to see some of these larger torches. Ross at ABR was using a "cannon" one day when I was up there. I was amazed that he could work with so much flame. I guess I need to get out more. lol jack
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  #13  
Old 2006-03-11, 4:48pm
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Well, hang around here long enough, Jack, and you might get bitten by the glass bug!
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  #14  
Old 2006-03-11, 5:11pm
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jack,

Here is a picture of the torch I just bought from a member of this forum you know as none other then Mr. Smiley.

http://www.glasstorchtech.com/mirage.html

This is an even bigger torch and show the inner and outer rings.

http://www.glasstorchtech.com/delta.html

I plan on using 2 concentrators I have right now to power the center ring and tanked oxygen and a foot pedal for the outer ring.

I'm hoping that those cyclone I or cyclone II that your distributors will be selling will be enought to power the outer ring so I can be oxygen tank free.

Robert
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  #15  
Old 2006-03-11, 5:13pm
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Yeah, let's get Jack hooked on melting glass too! As much as we seem to bicker around here, we all have at least one thing we agree on... GLASS ROCKS! Come to AGI and hang with us for a week Jack, I'm sure Paul can hold down the fort that long... or maybe you could both come. It's way too much fun to miss.
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Old 2006-03-11, 6:35pm
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What about a Carlisle?
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  #17  
Old 2006-03-11, 7:06pm
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What about a Carlisle?
Carlisle and South central are going to be hooking up and working on testing those torches together. I just talked to Chris at Carlisle about flow rates the other day. Hopefully that info will be official and some time soon. Until then, we'll have to hope somebody running that torch on one of these units chimes in.
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Old 2006-03-12, 12:17pm
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You know, I could see me getting hooked on this. We have been playing with a Baracuda and several Nortels while testing these machines. Paul is actually getting good at it. Of course Im taking notes and making changes while hes having fun. I have too many hobbies now.
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  #19  
Old 2006-03-12, 12:43pm
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Yeah, I see a ton of glass in your future... my crystal ball is very clear on this.
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Old 2006-03-13, 11:35am
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Quote:
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Yeah, I see a ton of glass in your future... my crystal ball is very clear on this.
Hey, if its a crystal ball that you made, it dont count!!
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  #21  
Old 2006-03-13, 1:12pm
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I have an M20 and use it with a Lynx and I love it! The little hiss is sort of soothing. I only use soft glass.
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Old 2006-03-13, 1:17pm
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Hi MisoBeady,
Mind sharing what LPM you keep yours at for soft glass?
Cheers,
Lavender
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  #23  
Old 2006-03-13, 1:56pm
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Jack, are these M-20's the Millenium 10 LPM units when you get them? How many actual LPM's are the flow meters showing at 10? It doesn't say that unit of measurement is actually a LPM. I've tried calling you today. Give me a call when you get a minute.
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Old 2006-03-13, 6:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Jack, are these M-20's the Millenium 10 LPM units when you get them? How many actual LPM's are the flow meters showing at 10? It doesn't say that unit of measurement is actually a LPM. I've tried calling you today. Give me a call when you get a minute.
Hey Brent, the settings are lpms. You can double check it with a liter meter. If you dont have one, I can send you one. The machine started out as a 5 lpm unit. thats why the 10 scale decal. I finaly got your order from Art Glass House today. Expect them to leave by the end of the week. Sorry about the phone, I had to do a lot of running today. jack

Last edited by oxydoc; 2006-03-14 at 12:08pm.
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  #25  
Old 2006-03-14, 8:16am
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So, the 10 on the scale is actually 10 LPM or darn close?
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  #26  
Old 2006-03-14, 8:19am
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I'll just go down to the hospital or to a local dealer and check it out. My wife works at the hospital, so getting somebody local to test them, shouldn't be hard. Since these units came out of general population and weren't sent specially for me or anything, maybe peoples questions about the output and quality can finally be put to bed.
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Old 2006-03-14, 12:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
I'll just go down to the hospital or to a local dealer and check it out. My wife works at the hospital, so getting somebody local to test them, shouldn't be hard. Since these units came out of general population and weren't sent specially for me or anything, maybe peoples questions about the output and quality can finally be put to bed.
Yes, the lpm scale should be very close to a liter meter. Im sorry that Im slow on responses, but Im really hopping. Your friend's M20s left the shop today. Your units as anyones, are taken out of inventory and not custom made. In fact, yours came from Art Glass House. They keep several in their inventory and we also inventory them for AGH. Sometimes we get low on inventory and they go from bench to box. Hope everything is as expected. Please be critical of the unit and dont hold any punches. I can take it and I will use your input for further production. Thanks again, jack
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  #28  
Old 2006-03-15, 7:50am
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No worries are coming from using the units... any worries I have are coming from outside sources... and then those are being answered perfectly by you. I really appreciate all you are doing and your attitude couldn't be better. You rock! I hope you get the things you discussed with me yesterday into production... those are going to be awesome. This is all really exciting news for boro workers.
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Old 2006-03-15, 11:22am
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Brent, do your machines "breath"?

I am curious as it seems logical that all concentrators/generators would "breathe" if there is no holding tank to keep the flow constant. Like with each cycle it has an exhale or something. I have noticed it with my machine (a generator,but not what you are using) and figure that it is just part of not using tanked O2. Any thoughts on this? Am I even making sense with my question?

I appreciate any input!

Kari
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Old 2006-03-15, 3:08pm
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concentrators/generators that use pressure swing adsorption technology should breathe. That means that if there is 2 sieve beds, it should breathe...as the valves switch the compressed air from one sieve bed to the other. Only units I am aware of that you wont hear breathe are the Sequal units, because they have a totally different sieve bed design with a rotating motor on the bottom of it that constantly cycles the air through the parts of the sieve bed, eliminating the breathing noise.

And believe it or not, your generator probably has a holding tank (product tank) of some sort in it, but its probably small...not a 30 gallon tank like you may be thinking of
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